Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 512

Exodus 32 continued....

But, as it were, the people were eager to take off these earrings and give them to Aaron. Seeing how willing they were to give something of universal value for the sake of their god, makes me wonder about the sacrifices of Abel and Cain. Abel's sacrifice was accepted but Cain's was not. Well, this offering of their earrings was not acceptable even though costly. God is not impressed with things man treasures. He wants true worship that honors Him and does not substitute anything for Himself. No 'stand=ins" for Him!

Amazingly, Moses had preached the Words of God concerning the commandments. The Decalogue was delivered orally to the people before the people agreed to follow God and His commands. This is what they assented to do. They clearly knew that they were not to:

First of all, worship any other god but YHWH.

And Second of all, never create an image of any kind to represent YHWH.

So, whatever the golden calf represented broke one of these paramount commandments. The top of the list, so to speak. WOW!

Did they not fear Him? Did they think that they could just exchange YHWH for a more acceptable and "tame" god? Did they really think that YHWH would cause His Presence to dwell within or upon this golden calf or that a different god could do this?

I don't think we can ever really know what the Israelites and Aaron were really intending here, but we can know that what ever their intents, these were gravely sinful.

Creating this golden calf took some time and skill. The gold needed to be melted down and a cast of some time needed to be made. This shows that there was plenty of time for these people and Aaron to reverse course under the conviction of their sin. Aaron did the fine tuning on the calf, using tools to refine the features of the image. They took great care to form this idol.

YHWH, of course, knows all things and He knew their intentions and also what was going on in the camp while with Moses on the Mount. Moses was unknowing

Thank you One Eighty but I couldn't connect your comment to what I had written. Maybe you could rewrite it & be more pointed - I won't be offended.

Exodus 32 continued...

It is noteworthy to consider why the Israelites had gold earrings in their ears. Were these earrings that were punched through their ears so as to not be removable or were they earrings that could be taken on and off easily? Were they earrings that were given to them by Egyptians as they were leaving Egypt or were they worn by them in Egypt as a custom of Egypt or from Canaan? Or, perhaps, were put in their ears by their Egyptian masters as a sign that they were slaves to the Pharaoh?

Aaron tells them to "break them off" in the KJV. Other versions say that Aaron says to "take they off." If these earrings were a sign of slavery, Aaron may have been indicating to the Israelites that they were to take off what represented enslavement to Egypt and their idolatry and instead worship YHWH-though an image of Him-to show their freedom won for them by YHWH.

If the earrings were worn as an Egyptian custom, Aaron may have wanted the Israelites to remove what was of Egypt to worship YHWH without defilement by Egyptian things. If the earrings were a custom of the middle east and not Egypt, then perhaps Aaron was asking them to take them off to exchange this custom for the worship of this YHWH who delivered them in such mighty ways. Everything they knew of God in the past was now changed. So. perhaps Aaron was thinking along those lines. We cannot know that Aaron's intent was to bring the people into idolatry or to have the people divest themselves of past worship symbols (which the earrings may have represented) and now have this new symbol of YHWH, their Deliverer.

Whatever Aaron intended when the people came to him asking for him to make a sacred image for them, it is peculiar that he made an image of a created thing. He could have made a pedestal of some sort to offer incense, or some altar for a sacrifice, but not a depiction of YHWH or any other god.

Maybe Aaron thought that the people would not want to give up their valuable gold jewelry.

Gianni's. Also you are dead on when you said Satan did not know the mystery

Of the Body of Christ or the power that was given us when born again of God's

Spirit 1 Corinthians 2:6-8, this is so big we will never fully comprehend we have

The privilege of endeavoring to walk and believe antil we fall asleep in Him or

Are gathered together. I can't wait that's the hope of the return!

Gianni's. A fantastic example of Gods operation when Zachariah was making

Sacrifice for Israel and Gabriel appeared and told him he would have a son and

Call him John and all the good things about him. Then Zacharias hits the angel

With absolute unbelief but because of lineage daughters of Aaron only

Elisabeth could be John the Baptist mother so God's next step shut up Zachariah

Until child was born. You would think a priest a man of God would have been

Thrilled with that positive of an announcement but instead unbelief which God

In His grace covered another step to bring forth and complete the ministry of

Jesus Christ because John the Baptist was sent to prepare the people's hearts

For Jesus Christ ministry.

Henry, on Pentecost the apostles were baptized in the Holly Spirit. New birth is not the same as baptism in the Spirit. But we could talk about that later on, it's another topic. Question. Can one be water baptized if he is not born again? The obvious answer is no. Water baptism has no meaning if new birth doesn't preced baptism in water. Were the apostles water baptized before Pentecost? The scripture doesn't mention that but says that apostles did baptize others ( John 4:2). And I think we can agree that one can not baptize others if not him been baptized first. Also, Jesus sent them 2 by 2 to preach salvation to Israel. Without them being saved fisrt? Jesus told them during the last supper that they were clean.( John 13:10), apart from Judas who was sinning since he had already decided to betray Jesus. Clean without been born again? When Phillip the Evangelist went to Samaria and preached Jesus there and people believed and got saved and got baptized in water were they baptized in the Spirit too? No, the apostles had to go there and lay hands on them to receive the Holly Spirit. When Paul met those disciples in Ephesus why did he ask them if they had received the HS after they were water baptized? Wouldn't it be logical to think that they got the HS if one gets it when he is born again? Those 2, new birth and Baptism in HS, are different things. There may be a case that those two may happen at the same time like in the case of Cornelius and his own, but this is one case among others. They are different things.

Free Grace vs Lordship Salvation

Do you believe in free grace opposed to lordship salvation? That is faith without works is dead ( James 2:26) only in THE EYES of MEN, not in the eyes of God. In this case, works would not provide evidence of faith. We have to look closely at what James is saying. If he does not contradict Paul ( Romans 4:5), no works must be needed as a result of faith alone. Otherwise it is not faith alone.

Exodus Chapter 32.

This is such a sad chapter. Just before Moses went up to the mountain again, the Israelites had covenanted with YHWH that they would not worship any other gods but him. They promised to obey all that He commanded.

But now, Moses was up on the mountain within the cloud of glory with its thundering and lightnings. They Israelites spoke to each other about this, and it did not take too long for them to decide that Moses must have been consumed on the mountain by YHWH. They looked to Moses as their deliverer, not YHWH. They feared YHWH. He was a God that they shrunk back from, being fearsome and definitely exercising authority and power to reach right down into their very hearts. So now what will they do?

How or who decided on the plan to make an image of "YHWH". Although I do not think they really wanted this image to represent how they had experienced YHWH-rather, they wanted a much 'tamer" god to worship-like the ones of they knew in Egypt. In Egypt there were several cattle gods. The bull image was considered a reference to the Supreme sun God, thus being depicted with a sun between his horns. The cow image was a representation of a female deity, Hathor, who gave birth to the sun god. She was the representation of all that was good about femaleness-motherhood and fertility. There was a calf-bull god in the surrounding areas named Hadid who was the storm god.

I think it is difficult to really know what was intended by Aaron making a calf as an image of worship. Was it intended to be like Hadid, the storm god, since YHWH's appearance on the mountain was accompanied with storm-like manifestations? Was it intended to represent YHWH or was it an exchange of YHWH for a familiar god from Egypt, Hathor or the Apis bull?

I guess I will have to research more on this.

Whatever Aaron was thinking, the people had asked him to make a god for them to worship. He chose to make a calf. It would seem that Aaron of all people would have put a stop to it!

Paul. I never said the word of God contradicts itself!

Dear Paul, you have not dismayed me at all. I do like to concentrate on the Gospel message of salvation in Jesus Christ by faith through the grace provided by the Holy Spirit. This is the best news of all for anyone.

But I do not think anyone on here needs to limit the scope of their posts, nor do I think we should not discuss paradoxes or what seems to be contradictions in the Scriptures. I don't mind at all that your response to my initial post went far a wide of what I was focused on. I just sort of bowed out because I did not want to enter such a discussion on these matters. So, no problem, Paul.

I will be reading what you post and will gladly join in when I feel it is good for me to do so. I hope you have a very blessed evening. And I will encourage you to continue to study the Bible everyday. It is the best book every written because it is God's revealed truth to humanity throughout all of the ages of history.. Everyone can learn God's truth within its pages and ultimately, read what the Gospel message is and respond in faith to believe it and put one's trust in Jesus alone for salvation.

Gianni's. You assume or read to much into scripture so I'll move on and

God Bless.

Gianni's. You said Judas was saved but you could not be born again till

Pentecost and Judas died by suicide before pentecost and was replaced by

Matthias. None and I mean none of the disciples were born again until

Pentecost because it was not possible until pentecost to have spiritual

Faith of Jesus Christ and receive power from on High.

Gianni's. He didn't allow it Satan was operating by His free will to be like the

Most high God and by deceit which is one of his traits tricked Adam and Eve

And they bought the lie by their freedom of will because God doesn't force

Man to believe. He has to allow it to happen because he made us with free

Will and he operates according to His Word which He doesn't break. It's

Absolutely grace that he does what he does because man in no way shape

Or form deserves anything from God. The reason on the cross Jesus Said

Forgive them for they know not what they do is because until born again we

Have no true spiritual knowledge of God.

And what was the question???

No animals.....in heaven....

Can heaven be a happy place without animals. Or pets..,

No pets in heaven!??!

Many Members, One Body

1 Corinthians 12:12-26

12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jew or Gentile, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14. For the body is not one member, but many

15. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is therefore not of the body?

16. And if the ear shall say, Because I am not of the eye, I am not of the body, it is therefore not of the body.

17. If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19. And if they were all one member, were were the body?

20. But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet; I have no need of you

22. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23. And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour ; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

25. That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Dear H.

From reading the Genesis account of the births of Noah' sons it does not seem to me to indicate a pregnancy resulting in twins or triplet. It seems to indicate that each on was born from separate pregnancies.

As for Joan of Arc, she lived in the 1400's in France. She was a pious Catholic peasant who believed that he was led by God to lead her country in to victory at the battle of Orleans. She was burned at the stake in England after being captured because the English royal thought she was a heretic.

Children Of God

1 John 3:1-10

1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not.

2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we see Him as He is.

3. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8. He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin; because he is born of God.

10. In this the children of God are manifested, and the children of the devil: whosoever doth not righteousness is not of God; neither he that loveth not his brother.

Thanks Alex, such a nice verse "But he that endures to the end will be saved". So for salvation to be granted one has to go till the end. (if not?)

Tares and wheat. Who is tares and who is wheat? Actually we are all tares before we get to know Jesus, that means we all have a sinful nature and cannot avoid doing sins, this is what Paul means about doing what he doesn't like to do. That is why we have been given Jesus' Blood to be forgiven and so we become wheat. But not everybody accepts Jesus' sacrifice, so some remain tares. As far as for the 2 men in bed, 2 women at the mill, this is about believers during the rapture, one is caught up the other is left behind. Why? Think of the 5 wise and the 5 unwise virgins and you will get the answer for that.

And something else dear Alex. A general observation for all of us.

A scripture must always be seen through the lens of other scriptures related to the same topic. That means that if one wants to get a doctrine about something in the Bible, he has to collect all scripture related to that topic (without leaving anything outside) and try to fit them together to succeed that. Often heresies are created because people choose to rely on some verses that fit their ideas ignoring the rest or even do that unintentionally because they don't know the Word of God in depth, especially true for new believers or for any other reason. That is why we have been given teachers and pastors in the church to perform that task. But some people think they are their ownselves teachers and pastors and don't need anything or anybody else; they believe the Spirit always leads them. But if this is true why do we have so many different beliefs since the truth is unique? My experience shows me that personally if I didn't join a reborn christian congregation many things in my mind would still be in a mess and confusion. I was tought a lot, God I believe revealed me some and so I came to where I am now.

GBU

What is the meaning of"do the first works" as in V 5?

Thanks

Turn From Evil

1 Peter 3:8-13

8. Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

9. Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrarwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

10. For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

11. Let him eschew evil, and do good, let him seek peace, and ensue it.

12. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

13. And who is he that will harm you if ye be followers of that which is good?

Sorry, in my previous post, in the last sentence I meant planned, not planted.

Hello Henry.

You are right that God doesn't do or plan anything evil. How could that ever be possible for God? But He oftens allows satan to tempt and test people, like in Paradise with Adam and Eve, like Saul the first king of Israel, like Job, like Judas, like with antichrist and his mark etc. "Allows" means that He doesn't do something Himself but He lets satan(or people) do his(their) own. Just think of WW2. Did God plan and do those wars? No, but He allowed it to happen. He could have prevented it if He wanted to, but He didn't. Why? Because He decided that people have free will and can do anything they want without Him intervening in their business.

Sometimes satan serves God's plans without him knowing that. What do I mean? God wanted to test Adam and Eve and let satan in the Paradise to test them. God wanted Jesus to be sacrificed for mankind's salvation so He let satan lead Jesus to the cross. Satan didn't know God's mysterious plan and he thought he won until he realized that what he did was what actually God's Will planned. Who can take on God and win? It is like playing chess with a computer that thinks a billion moves ahead.

Everything at the end will go according to God's Will. And His Will is those people who love Him and walk with Him will live with Him hapilly for ever. And who knows what other beautiful things are to come next.

GBU

Giannis....Remember Jesus said 2 men will be in 1 bed 1 will be taken and 1 will be left....And 2 women will be grinding at the mill 1 will be taken and 1 will be left.... Luke 17:34-36...Salvation can only come by that good seed the words of God...Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of GOD....But Jesus says after the good seed, the Wheat was sown here comes satan and sows a tare in with the wheat while men slept...Then you have 2 ppl...The Wheat and the Tares make us 2 ppl spritually speaking....The Tares make us sin @ Times....As Paul said when i wd do good evil is present with me...Paul had a thorn in the Flesh which was the Tare...Making him 2 ppl...Paul was saying if i do something i donot CONSENT unto, its not I that does it but sin that dwells in my members...With my my mind i serve the law of God but with my Flesh the Tare the law of SIN....O Wretched man that i am.

......So ya see Giannis we are 2 ppl...And we are involved in a war in heaven with satan and his tares...So sometimes we sin but there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the SPIRIT...The Wheat and the Tares war ever day thats y Jesus said there is gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...Thats y Paul said he had a thorn.( a tare ) in the FLESH.

.....But Jesus said AT THE HARVEST i will say to the reapers gather up the Tares and burn them....But gather the Wheat to my barn his Kingdom....But the 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been at war with the Tares that were within him.

.....Same thing with the 2 women grinding at the mill...The Tare are gonna be taken and burnt...The Wheat to the Kingdom

....So ya see Giannis we are in a war with satan and his Tares....Making us 2 ppl...But he that endures to the end will be saved....The End is the HARVEST...Paul wanted to obey but b/c of the Tares/thorn he cd not obey always thats y he said if i do something i do not CONSENT UNTO its not i that does it but sin that dwells in me..ok Gbu

Why did God's sons Angels took women and bore children and God destroy all of them except Noah family. ? Is there any proof text that Noah family was not from Angel generation?

I think we agree on that Henry. It is up to the individual to walk this new path. But if one becomes a prodigal son who never returns back to his father's house and dies away from home, what happens to him, is he still saved? Remember Judas? He was saved and selected to be one of the most privilidged people of all times. One of the twelve. He was born again, got baptized and baptized others, sent to preach about Jesus together with the rest, was given the Spirit to perform miracles like the rest, was trusted all the money, but he lost his way, he let satan lead him to betray Jesus and his end is known. Rememder Demas? He was one of Paul's accompanions during his missions. Paul was very careful and strict in selecting people who accompanied him. Once he quarelled with Barnabas because he didn't want Mark with them (that same Mark who wrote one of the gospels) because sometime earlier on Mark abandoned them in Cyprus and went back to Jerusalem. So that person Demas was an extraordinary christian. But still he was not careful and let his heart love the sinful world and abandoned Paul and went to Thessalonika. What happened to him? No more information is given but apparently if he eventually didn't repent then his end wasn't nice. Ananias and Sapphira? Were they saved at the end? They mocked the Holly Spirit and the apostles by saying lies and fell down dead. Did Heaven's gate open for them? Hard to believe. Remember the 5 unwise virgins, they were left out of the Marriage. Think of all those christians who will not make in the Rapture (if you believe in the pre-tribulation rapture). They will live for the next 7 years under God's wrath like the rest of the world. Some of them will accept the mark of the beast. And so many other cases. We have a free will and we make our choices in life. If my kid wants to go away from me and live his life as he wants, I will always be his parent and love him and want to be OK but his future is in his hands, I cannot do anything really

Hi Happy.

Satan wants to be like God, He wants glory. He's a deceiver and works in the midst of us. Satan offers us what our flesh desires and tries to wreck the Church from within.

God bless.

Jesus And Nicodemus

John 3:1-15

1. There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto Him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with Him..

3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5. Jesus answered, Verily verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9. Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, How can these things be?

10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11. Verily verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven.

14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up:

15. That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Hi Henry.

Thanks for your kind words and those great scriptures.

God bless you.

Linda. Explain where and why more detail please.