Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 461

What does Matthew 17:21 refer to?

Thank you all for your answers. I feel I have to pose another question or ask it in another way. Let me first state, I am a born-again Christian, saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. Are the dead in Christ the lukewarm Christians who have physically died before having a relationship with God, living by his word? I would like to know who they are?

God through the inspiration of the Spirit gives David confidence against his foes in Psalm 27.

We are reminded in verse 4 of Psalm 84:10 as to it being better having the lowest position as "gatekeeper" in heaven than anything on earth; or the alternative of hell; certainly.

Verses 5 and 6 remind us of Psalm 40 in being lifted up and trusting in the Rock of God which is Christ. There could possibly be prophetic overtones in either passage of the Rapture; and or protection during times in the future Tribulation for certain Jews in hiding. We see a theme here of continuing trust in God; not just a fleeting moment when trouble arises. This helps an individual be able to clearly hear the voice of the Lord with all the competing ones of the world; the flesh and the Devil. Verse 9 shows to some extent how the Spirit was more transient in the lives of the O.T. saints; although God's people still ultimately were saved.

Verse 10 certainly cannot be overstated as it fits in to so many today; certainly whose own families foresake them or worse for proclaiming the Gospel truth. We are today "adopted sons" of Christ ( Romans 8:14-17) if truly Born Again. We have a Father in heaven who never leaves us or foresakes us.

Verse 12 demonstrates how false witnesses came up in David's life and certainly this applies to Christ when on earth. Finally; there is an admonition in the last two verses to wait patiently; as well as a hint of the Millennium Kingdom in verse 13 when we can be certain thar goodness will be in the "land of the living." Today the remnant believers are few and far between and many have fallen away as the scriptures predict.

I typed in forgiveness in the search and clicked around. This page has some powerful verses, like forgive others for yourself to be forgiven.

Link

Link

This has commentaries on that specific verse.

ARE YOU LOOKING FOR FORGIVENSS FROM GOD?

if you are looking for repentance you need to believe in the lord Jesus Christ

Acts 16:25-40

30 Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household

Just to add to what others have said

Matthew 22:32 what is written

Remember he is the God of the living, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

When believer dies he goes to be with the father

Hi Deborah,

This is not a salvation issue and shouldn't cause divisions within the body, but yes, I believe you are interpreting the Bible correctly. In my opinion theree is much stronger Biblical support for this compared to the idea of Christians going direct to heaven as they die. Someone can simply make a list and there are probably more than double the amount of verses supporting that someone will wait in sleep for Jesus to return than to go to heaven immediately. It also makes more logical sense as it would seem weird for Christians to go to heaven and skip judgment when it says everyone will be judged, and everyone in this case means everyone- and it also says it will happen on the same day: the day of judgment, which wouldn't exactly happen if people periodically went to heaven randomly. It would not make as much logical sense if Christians went to heaven only to return back to earth in the grave to rise, then meet Jesus, then go back to heaven a 2nd time. Whereas, the alternative seems to both fit scripture and be more logical too.

John 5:28-29

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Daniel 12:2

1 Corinthians 15:6

1 Corinthians 15:51

etc

The support for the other perspective is the thief on the cross through an assumption that this is a template for all of mankind to follow and no exceptions and that paradise is the same is heaven. The second is that when Paul said he'd rather be away from his body and with the Lord that one assumes his preference means reality for all, and assumes that him wanting to be with the Lord means there's no waiting period. Of course when someone sleeps in death it likely won't seem like waiting, just like when we sleep on earth we usually aren't conscious a full 8 hours waiting to wake up. God bless.

Robert,

I might be misunderstanding your question but I think what it's talking about in 1 Corinthians Chapter 11 is that people were coming into the church and taking communion in an unworthy manner. This is not talking about fellowshipping together and having a potluck at the church.

1 Corinthians 11:29 says, "For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, by not discerning the Lord's body.



There's the key!



Jesus set it up so that when you take the bread or drink the cup, He said do this in remembrance of me.



When they took the bread and drank the cup, they were not discerning that these elements represented the Lord's body. They continued to eat it like it was a meal.

Deborah,

When a believer dies, their physical body goes into the grave but their spirit departs and immediately goes to be with the Lord.

As it says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, the dead in Christ will rise first to meet the Lord in the air. This is not the second coming of Christ. This is what is called the rapture of the church.

At this time, only the dead in Christ will be resurrected. There will be a second resurrection for the wicked dead at a later time, and we see that in the book of Revelation.

But in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, this is for believers. It is when Christ comes for His church. If you look at the very next verse, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, it tells us that we also go to meet the Lord in the air.

This is going to happen very quickly. So we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. So they (the dead in Christ), they come up out of the grave first, and we get caught up with them to where when we get to the Lord, we get there at the same time.



It will be simultaneous, though their action starts first, which is very understandable because they're underground and we're above ground.



It says for a meeting with the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I just wanted to say thank you all so very much ! U all did a spectacular job; 1st loving God in yr services to Him and to His ppl, with the time u spent putting this together! And helping others have the tools at their reach ! Ty bless u all

where can i find forgiveness

In 1 Thessalonians 4:16. ...and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Does that mean a saved Christian does not go to heaven right away when they die, so they also have to wait like the living until the coming of Christ?

Psalm 26 is very similar to the previous Psalm 25 as integrity is mentioned (verse 1 and 11); and David not sitting in the "congregation of evil doers." (v. 5). Again as my comments were there this is also as Psalm 25 reflecting the characteristic of Psalm 1.

Verse 10 brings up bribery specifically as a new detail. Also verse 6 reminds us of the ritual hand washing of the Pharisees; which didn't do them too much good to say the least ( Matthew 23:27 etc). It has to be accompanied with the proper attitude on the INSIDE (see Psalm 51).

The Psalm ends with David stating that he will bless the Lord "in the congregations." One thought that I have here is that we need to be discerning as to whether the house of God that we fellowship with isn't turning to the world and hence becoming reprobate. Apparently the word "congregation" can be used in a positive or negative light; generally. We need to be cautious not to always go with the majority concensus; when it comes to decisions such as approving or disapproving new leadership or members to the church; decisions on spending money in the church budget that aren't focused first on the Great Commission; entertainment brought in and in general any error coming in (a little leaven ruins the whole loaf) ( Gal 5:9).

No further thoughts at present.

Thankyou Earl . You are of course correct . God bless you .

Jacqui:

All our sins are covered by the blood of Christ, to repent is to turn from deception, as God opens our eyes to truth, we are constantly repenting of lies and deception, as God reveals himself to us, God causes us to be his adversary, so when we came to truth, we give him all the glory.

Zechariah 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angle of the Lord, and Satan (lies and deception) standing at his right hand to resist him.

Psalms 74:10 Oh Lord, how long will the adversary reproach? shall the enemy (lies and deception) blaspheme thy name for ever?

Please explain verse 12. Kiss the son.

Matthew 19:14

King James Version

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:16-18

King James Version

16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Revelation 2:5

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

James 4:8

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Revelation 3:3

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Acts 3:19

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Just a quick point , three times in the Gospel of John , Jesus Himself refers to the Holy Ghost as the Spirit of Truth . That's very powerful to me and it how I always perceive the Holy Spirit , God is the Everlasting source of all Truth .

Wow , thank you Earl , I shall be reading Revelation soon and I shall keep your comments in mind when I do . I'm a bit disappointed that I haven't received many answers to my question . I know it's a tough one but I would love to hear people's opinions , I hope that we are not scared of saying what we think in case we make fools of ourselves . I was a bit nervous about putting my ideas out there in case people thought I was stupid/ crazy but I'm glad I took a chance , if I hadn't done so I wouldn't have got your interesting response , thanks again , I guess we are the brave ones !

What do the Bible say about a women that confide in other men and not the husband God gave her

You are much welcome Gigi.

I'm hoping to join you guys soon.

Good night and God bless.

One could say that the miracle of wine early in John was something that He did early on that was perhaps purely of His own Deity as it was "before the time". The walking on water also and other things He did personally with the Disciples as well as explaining the Parables was something that was not to be broadly known. The main point here is that He did NOT want people to know who He was before it was in God's timing; as it would cause not only attempts prematurely to kill Him; but also large crowds attempting to make Him king. That happened in the last week to fulfill all things in their timing. We need to understand that He was our example and had the Spirit "without limit." ( John 3:34 "without measure"). His ministry had to be entirely as a servant as no doubt He deserved every day to be different than it was and indeed He is now "highly exalted". The scars on His hands and feet also serve well to demonstrate what He did for us in our place; as well as being triumphant over "sheol" ( 1 Peter 3:18-20).

Whatever other things that John mentioned that would take up more than all the books in the world ( John 21:25). Thus; whatever does exist outside the Canon which is largely tales of things before His public ministry are not to be taken as scripture or even seriously. His ministry started publicly after John the Baptist baptized Him to fulfill all things and the Spirit came down on Him as a dove ( Luke 3:22). This makes evident that it was the start of public ministry as even John the Baptist who baptized much of Israel didn't know who the Messiah was until that happened (apparently Elizabeth's children didn't interact with Mary's after the children were born or shortly thereafter from what the scripture seems to indicate).

Phillipians 2:5-8 is helpful. God emptied Himself; came in the form of a servant. For Him to do anything in His own strength during His public ministry would put Him in a position to do something that we couldn't do. Ultimately; it was a full trust in the Holy Spirit and God that allowed Him to be in the same position as man; or like Adam but without sin. It pleased God to crush Him according to Isaiah. He had to be a complete substitute for us and a complete atonement. To take on our sin; He had to be God for even the Pharisees recognized His claims that He was the "I am" was putting Himself in place of God; hence they attempted 10 times to kill Him before the time. Also Satan offered Him all the Kingdoms of the world to worship Him. Satan will at some point in the future have ALL whose names are not written in the Book of Life worship Him.

Since you aren't doctrinally errant in your view of Christ overall; I won't quibble if there is some difference in viewpoint here. My point is that Christ willingly became our sacrifice; but obviously being fully man it was unbearable; since He had God's face turned away as well as the angels and it would seem the Holy Spirit. Keep in mind immediately before the event in Gethsemane when He sweat blood. He had to be strengthened to make it to the cross and not die prematurely. There could be no help as it was He alone to be the propitiation for our sins.

The Godhead; nonetheless is quite mysterious; as is how Christ Himself was to "learn obedience." ( Heb. 5:8-9). This would be the only time in all eternity when He would be limited as a man. He had to start off as we all do and be obedient to His family on earth as any other Jew would to fulfill the role as well of Jewish Messiah. Jesus did show His own personality as it were after the Resurrection with the meal on the beach. He didn't do signs and wonders without reason; and it was to emphasize repentance and to fulfill the larger purposes.

Hello Keith and Erin, I hope all is well wherever you are. What year was your Cambridge bible published? How long have you had those bibles?

Sincerely,

Wispy.

Hey Richard.

I read your posts, but I do not reply as much anymore but if I may. The statement Jesus was fully God and fully man, I have heard others say as well. From the time Jesus was born until He was resurrected and ascended back to heaven can this be truly said?

We read in John 17:1-5, shortly before Jesus was arrested, He prayed to the Father to be restored. Jesus left it all behind for us, the only begotten Son of God. The Bible does not clarify what that glory is, but whatever it was, it was lacking in Him while He was human. Jesus came as a human being and had to deal with life as we do, Heb. 4:15, and was obedient to the Father, Phil. 2:6-9.

Jesus was sent to fulfill the law and the prophets only man could do that. Jesus is the Messiah/Christ that God promised and sent, the Anointed One, the only begotten Son of God, and when He was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Spirit without measure to do the will of the Father that sent Him, Matt. 10:40 Luke 4:18 John 3:34-35 John 5:30-31 John 17:21.

Jesus is now back in heaven with the glory He had at the right hand of the Father and will reign until all enemies are put under His feet, 1 Cor 15:25 and we know the last one is death, Rev 20:14.

There is no other name above His, Phil. 2:9 and no other name where there is salvation, Acts 4:12.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Richard,

I guess that this discussion thread did not go to the workings of Holy Spirit in the lives of believers because the question was Who is the Holy Spirit. Thus the thread went on to address this question. However, I think your idea concerning His work in us is a very good idea. Perhaps you can start a new thread on this topic. I would love to hear many voices on that topic as well.

Yes, LaTonya, God is good and He has helped you in your time of great need. We praise Him for what He has done for you.