Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 394

Predestination part 2 (in regard to eternal life or death specifically).

If we look into the whole issue of God predestining some for heaven and others for hell; we often refer to the term "double predestination". We need to keep in mind the verses such as hell was created for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41) and that God is not a respecter of men ( Romans 2:11 etc) as well as the fact that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23). As I stated recently; there IS rejoicing among the Godhead as well as God's people when the wicked are judged; as the earth is purged from corruption.

In regard then to the destruction of the wicked; it is because of sin that is not sought to be forgiven and that through the METHOD God has given; namely through the substitutionary atonement of the Son. Many remain stuck on that point as those of the true "Grace Gospel" expose when they still think they have some merit on righteousness of their own. Only the 100 percent wicked need a 100 percent Savior; it is an all or nothing proposition. We need to realize that Satan is the father of all those who are outside the faith. ( John 8:44). Someone may accept their own sin but try telling them that fact; or worse that is the fate of family members who are or were not believers and have passed. This is a serious concern among those who remember their relatives as they were; and if they saw them in torment it would hardly give them a nostalgic feeling. Realizing that apart from Christ we are only thinking of ourselves ultimately as our motivation isn't fun. Also realizing that putting SELF on the throne is exactly what Satan does to lureus as he himself has that mindset then we are quite humbled. These aren't fun things to ponder but it certainly does get our mind off all the chaos in this world; important as some issues are compared to the eternal fate of sinners.

Several replies to my comments regarding the Jealousy Offering in numbers 5 are showing that they clearly did not read with comprehension. I mean that Joseph believed Mary (why would he not? Because she conceived while she was visiting her cousin Elizabeth who was having a different kind of miraculous birth: old age delivery of John the Baptist). But tongues would have obviously been wagging and he may have been contemplating performing the offering to prove to the community her innocence. But he believed her and was not jealous. Ergo was not required to do the offering. If he had any doubts all he would have done was perform the jealousy offering as the LAW DEMANDS of suspicious (just) husbands to save them self from iniquity. So he was a just man and knew the law(s). Yes. This is further proof that he had not lain with her because performing the offering would implicate him as the biological father. See what I mean? He was TRAPPED in the law. His problem: do I marry the virgin or not? There is nothing in the prophesies that say whether the virgin is married or not. So he pondered and was going to divorce her due to PRIVITY: God's equal claim to Mary and the child. He was going to void his promise in deference to another's prior claim. Look up the definition of privity (another probable root of privily). It's different than privately.

Galatians 4:4

But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made "under the law",

"Quotations" mine.

Jesus was made from the ovum of Mary and made under the law (according to THE MOSAIC LAW) his father was Joseph the husband of Mary. Not because Joseph "knew" his wife but because the law says so. Hallelujah. Fully Son of God and fully Son of man as Christ himself so often reiterated.

Predestination

Whatever side of the whole issue one takes in regard to Predestination and free will; we all as Bible believers (unless Universalists)

accept that some in the end are saved; and some are lost. We shall also assume that we are not of the camp that doesn't believe in a literal hell (which; by default should cause an issue with a literal heaven); and finally we will accept that eternity means eternity; not some annihilation.

All would agree that there is a set number saved and lost in the end. Despite what may be assumed by some; there is still an impetus thrusting people out to proclaim the Gospel for "Arminians" and "Calvinists." In fact; looking at the history of Whitfield; for example and other reformers; as well as personal friends of mine who are all "Calvanists" it could be argued they are the majority of those evangelizing. The emphasis is on proclaiming the Good News and having the Spirit draw those forth who He will; rather than what some call "decisional regeneration." One could say that neither viewpoint or any in-between one in regrad to free will and predestination takes away for a true believer the infallibility of the entire text of 66 books of the Bible.

What is most vital; therefore is to take the entire Word of God and consume it. If we try to pigeonhole anything to fit into our understanding of a doctrine and disregard those seemingly contradictory verses then we are doing violence to scripture. Revelation 22:18-19 is a dire warning against that book at least; it should stand also to other violations of scripture.

Of course; if we are to start a Theocracy as some of the reformers did where men are forced to believe some tenet out of fear of man's punishment we are going against what we claim about God drawing all men to Himself ( John 12:32-33). The same thing can be said when peer or family pressure exists and/or someone is "culturally or born into" Christianity. When the Spirit prompts it IS time for decision.

Alex1939...While we are talking about MARY...In Luke 11:27 A certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said blessed is the womb that bear you and the Paps you have sucked...Praising Mary...But Jesus said rather blessed are them that hear my words and keeps them...Which is the field were that good seed is sown ( our hearts.) ..Thus Christ can be formed in us via hearing his words his seeds ..Regeneration...Which is the H.G. the Child of Promise... Gal 4:19 My lil children of whom i Travail in birth till Christ is formed in you...Thats y he always refers to himself as the Son of Man...Salvation can only come via his words his seeds etc...Jesus asked who is my Mother?... Then he said them that hears my words and keeps them, his seeds ...She brought forth a manchild that is gonna rule all nations... Rev 12:10 Which is the H.G. That Child of Promise the Kingdom.

...When Isaiah saw the Kingdom coming 9:6..he said unto us a Child is born unto us a son is given...THats when he refers to Jesus as everlasting Father...And a lil Child is gonna lead them....There is a Child in our future which is the H.G...As that which is born of the spirit is spirit via hearing his words..ok Gbu...Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man...Which is mankinds fruit unto God... Romans 7:4

Thanks & your good. It was my misunderstanding. We all praise Him differently it's just good we praise Him. Your friend in Christ, Texsis

Alex1939...Leentje I kindly disagree with you that Joseph was Jesus Father...Had Joseph been his biological Father Jesus wd had been a sinner like all men....But in that Jesus had no Propensity to sin proves that God Almighty was his Real FATHER...

And the Lamb of God cd not be defiled by any man's seed...As all men carry the stain and the spot of Adam...There was none righteous no not one...

.....Them that are born of God cannot sin...Which was Jesus the Christ Child...God cd not instruct all the angels to worship his son if Joseph was his biological FATHER...Jesus knew what was in man thats y he wd not commit himself to man...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...As all men carry the stain and the spot of adam...The Lamb of God had to be perfect in every way...

.....Thats y Jesus said satan cometh and has nothin in me...Simply b/c no man was his biological father...Thus Jesus had no propensity to sin like all other men....k

Yes I did, thnx. after more study & prayer I came to the conclusion that I tend to jump to conclusion because I'm so freaked out by the worlds evil today that I tend to critic every little thing. In doing so, in this case, I learned something I never knew. For that I thank you & anyone pointing out truth. Pray y'all stay warm God bless "Texsis"

Proper view on impreccatory Psalms and scriptures on hell (part 2)

Looking further into this topic; we certainly should be "thrust out" to proclaim the Gospel with these eternal realities made clear to us. Unfortunately; with today's watered down; and/or politically correct version of scripture we are somehow believing that we can have our "best life now." We can more accurately say with the eternal weight of glory ( 2 Cor. 4:17) that we are living our "worst life now." What is best; however is realizing that our old life is DEAD ( Gal. 2:20) and that our life is in the Spirit. The fear of death no longer haunts us ( Heb. 2:14-15) so we are able to tell others the Good News.

Our thoughts need to be His thoughts; this gives us a clearer understanding of praying in the Spirit things that are honoring to God and truly petitioning what His covenants promise as servants of God. Trusting God even when we need to say or do things that go against our natural minds may be a process. If we DON'T seek Him on these tough topics; then really the only other method of "fire and brimstone" preaching is utilizing our self righteousness to stir up anger. Without the love of Christ; therefore we are truly a clanging cymbal. Only in His love can we demonstrate that He has overcome the world within our own hearts and souls. When the love of Christ causes all sorts of resistance ( Matt. 5:44) then we truly are heaping coals of fire on someone ( Romans 12:20 quoting Prov. 25). To overcome; therefore we must avoid at all costs any of our own self-righteousness and anger; nonetheless a holy indignation is certainly necessary in many cases when the nation at large is so wicked. In conclusion; therefore there are national and corporate sins; and individual which both involve a call but for those chosen the truth is opened up. Let it be therefore the Spirit not us which is the two-edged sword ( Heb. 4:12) and not our own cutting words.

Have a blessed day.

Agape. RIch P

Proper view on imprecatory Psalms and other scriptures on the wrath of God

In Psalm 2; we see that God laughs at the calamity of the wicked. This is repeated in Psalm 37 and 59 and I believe elsewhere in scripture. We don't have the prerogative as the Lord does for such an attitude. This doesn't mean; however that we won't rejoice in God's judgments of the wicked. Also as Isaiah 66 makes clear; we will see those in hell and they will be an abhorrence.

Romans 5:10 indicates how we all were enemies of God. We are commanded to love our enemies; as well as "pray for those who despitefully use you" ( Matt. 5:44). This isn't possible; of course apart from the Spirit living in us. But we note as well that we are aware of who our enemies are; namely those opposing Christ.

We need to differentiate as well between that which is spoken to the masses (those called) with an individual message (to those who are chosen). We are all in a STATE of sin; which is common to this world system; as is described in James 3:15 as the "world; flesh and the devil." The world which promises "freedom" makes us captive; whereas when we are servants of Christ we are truly set free. To hate the sin and love the sinner therefore is more of an aversion to the state of sin even than to their individual participation in it. We can flip the tables on this and state that the love of Christ is more focused on the BODY of Christ than any individual member of it; that is if we wish to find a church with balanced gifting.

Ultimately; then the final fate for the unregenerate is in a perpetual state of sin; and therefore they are just one of a whole pile of garbage; spiritually. Hence is the allegory of Gehenna in scripture given as a comparison to eternal hellfire; where they used to toss the trash outside the city. Rev. 11:18 is even fitting for environmentalists; God will "destroy those who destroy the earth." Animals as well will feast at Armageddon.

:- ) Amen & God bless Texsis!

Lord teach me to pray

The world is getting darker.

Think of a pitch black room with no electricity. Now light a match.that's you. You are that light in the darkness. Sometimes a match, sometimes a blow torch,

Texsis and Chris no apologies necessary. In reading Psalms 105 I was thinking that God does all His holy will. In 40 and 41 He certainly could have reminded us of our sin, it was plentiful, but showed His grace and mercy instead. I did not come here to argue or be contentious and I will not condemn another's servant, I was just praising God.

Alex1939....Leentje...I kindly disagree, 1st off the LAMB of God cd not be tainted or defiled by any mans seed...As all men carried the stain and the spot of ADAM...None righteous no not even 1...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...Thus it had to be an immaculate Conception...And Mary was made clean by the word spoken to her...Her fetus was Jesus the living word...Thus she was made immaculate spritually speaking...As DAVID said its the lords doings and is precious in our eyes...Not any man .

.....Thats y our lord had no Propensity to sin simply b/c God Almighty was his biological Father...The word made flesh and blood...Had Joseph been his biological father he wd have been a sinner like all men...Almighty God tells us this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased...As Jesus was the living WORD ( God ) made flesh and blood...Acts... Feed the Church of God that he has purchased with his own blood...Not mans Blood...It was Gods Blood the blood of Jesus....My Father and i are 1...ok lemme go

.....All men have this horrible Propensity to sin. None righteous no not ONE... but Jesus had no Propensity to sin...Simply b/c God Almighty was his ABSOLUTE Father THAT CANNOT SIN...And he that is born of God cannot sin...Which was Christ Jesus.

Explain verse 12...

My guess is that God chose Joseph to be Mary's husband and help her bring up His Son because He knew that Joseph was a devoted believer in Him and would recognise that Mary was still a virgin and that her baby would be the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament . Joseph was not chosen at random . God knew his heart and that he would be a good dad and husband but more importantly , God knew that Joseph believed in Him and in the prophecies of the old testament . He new Joseph had faith in Him and would be obedient to God's will without question .

Me , I only read KJV .

Hi Leentje. I see two important matters arising from your comment:

a. Numbers chapter 5. The Jealousy Offering that was required involved a long process of questioning & testing. Though, as you say, Joseph would have considered this due to a possible suspicion of his wife, I don't believe he would have ever proceeded with it.

b. Matthew 1:20,21. If it were not for the angelic assurance that the Seed in Mary was implanted by the Holy Spirit & not by any man, Joseph could well have entertained other options with great despair.

Therefore, I don't believe that the matter proceeded further than this. That Joseph, with the assurance & comfort from the Lord, believed that the impossible was made possible & now became a fact; and that it was incumbent upon him to offer no further questions on the matter but accept the status quo, & honor his promise to Mary. He would then always be a guardian to the Child Jesus, though to others in the society, seen as Jesus' biological father with a clear ancestral line to David.

No problem , it's very easy for missunderstandings to occur when we are communicating with strangers and only by typing . So much communication is missed when we can't see each others body language and facial expressions and we have no idea of each others personalities in reality .

Dear Diane, rest in peace and Merry Christmas. If you read v 11 you understand that the Lord Is, Ego Eimi. He is the one who decides. It is He who draws us to Himself. Without Him, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Trust that He is with you every second.

Hope this helped you. Saw that you had not received a reply. That's why I answered. Be well and look up to Him to whom all glory is due. Jesus loves you in Christ. 1 Peter 2 Chapter. Stay close to the script. And He is close too u.

This is the best bible I like this bible

Apologies, that reference should be 2 Corinthians 1:1.

Thanks Texsis. As you probably know, even the name 'Christian' was given to 'those Christ followers' by the people in Antioch ( Acts 11:26), & was intended to be used in a derogatory manner, as Gerald has pointed out in his other comments. So it wasn't a glowing affectionate name that was given at that time but it certainly became a badge worthy to be carried on their, & our, hearts & lips, with great honor.

And Paul considered himself to be an apostle ( 1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 2:1), though the sense here I think, was that he was numbered with the other apostles yet one born out of due time (i.e. the others were direct witnesses of Jesus, walked with Him & called by Him, whereas Paul's qualification was of his explicit vision & calling to be Jesus' chosen vessel). Since Paul's day, there has been no other apostle, except Barnabas & those others since, who fulfil the apostolic definition of being God's messenger to the unsaved but not of the original 12 + 1.

Sammi, I hope you Christmas Day is going great. I was not intending to be contentious either. Sorry if you thought that.

Donna

Merry Christmas to you and yours. We are all here at our house. Still recovering with a cough and fatigue, so am not cooking this time.

So glad that Daniel is doing so well and has such a promising life ahead. Praise the Lord, for He is good, His mercies never cease and His love never fails!

I too have struggled with feelings of inadequacy and isolation . I have come to realise that it really does not matter what any one thinks or believes about me . The only thing that matters to me is that my God and my Saviour love me . They love you too . They know all about you , all of your faults and failings and they adore you . You are a shining jewel to them . This is what gets me out of bed every day with a smile on my face , knowing that the ones who really do know me , love me . I have been and probably still are sometimes my own worst enemy . I've messed up and missed out on so many things because of my own lack of confidence and ambition . God alone has preserved my life and sanity . Be assured , you are most precious to your God , stick with Him and you will know overwhelming love and an absence of fear of the things that this world throws at you . You are beloved by Him . He is yours and you belong to Him and He loves you as you are . The things of this world will be gone in the blink of an eye , but you will live forever with Him . You have an awesome future , those who know not God ? Job chapter 4 verse 8+9 . Psalm 9 verses 8-10 .

Thank you Giannis. I understood it to be in the Near Demonstrative also. The Greek professor whose ministry I sat under for a few years taught it that way, in that when Jesus said upon this rock, the Near Demonstrative would have indicated that He would have been pointing to Himself when He said upon this Rock.

Thank you so much for your reply!

Dear Free , thanks so much for your reply . It's good that we are all on here growing in the Lord . Most people don't like change , myself included , though I feel that change is essential for our growth spirituality . If we stand still I think it's a bit like saying that we are finished , done , no improvement needed . We have a saying here , when we haven't seen someone for a long time we might say to them : you haven't changed . I guess it's meant as a compliment but if someone said it to me I would be worried ! I need to change , a lot ! The only Truth I know for sure is with God Everlasting . I wait for Him , I long for Him . Everything else is banal . I know I must allow myself to get bogged down in this life , keep my eyes looking up and do my best to show love love love . I fail every day . I like what you said about checking your car , that sounds like personal experience . Here's hoping 2023 is the best year ever , for the whole world , God willing .

Contrary to most sermons that infer that the "public humiliation" that Joseph was avoiding was a publicized divorce (as opposed to a "quiet divorce" - what is the difference: like slightly pregnant?) he HAD to be pondering the Jealousy offering in Numbers 5. Suspecting infidelity, except I am positive he never doubted Mary, and this particular offering is COMMANDED for a husband to perform to avoid raising a bastard as your own offspring. The fact that Joseph would not perform this speaks to the fact that he and Mary had not yet been intimate although already basically man and wife under Jewish law: engagement required divorce to get out of. He was pondering God's claim on the child ("privity" is a legal definition regarding two parties interest in the same property). The prophecy never states if the Virgin is married. He struggled and almost made Jesus a bastard. Seriously. The jealousy offering in Mosaic law proved that Joseph is in actual LEGAL FACT the earthly father of Jesus. WOW!

Psalm 67. THIRD attempt to post after I wiped out AGAIN like last tiime.. ugh

I lost Psalm 66 but this Psalm once again has a Millennium type of fulfillment as indicated in verse 4. Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Christ as "wonderful; counselor; mighty God; everlasting father; Prince of Peace" with surrounding verses describing how He rules with fairness and settles disputes impartially etc. The nations have hardly sung about this sort of thing as a whole yet.

Verse 2 and the "saving health" could be a reference to Petra where His people are physically preserved previously from Antichrist ( Rev. 12:14). It also could be how those who worship God are given a life like that of a tree ( Isaiah 65:22) where those who die at 100 will be considered as a child two verses previous. There will probably be physical life for those who don't rebel until the end of the 1000 years in the Eden like state of the earth but those who rebel will be immediately judged.

Again as in the previous Psalm; the crops will be multiplied (verse 6); and blessings and fear of the whole world will occur (verse 7). The lack of the fear of the Lord now as opposed to then certainly will be due to Christ Himself returning. Sadly though the unregenerate still will follow the Pied Piper's call when Satan makes his last stand at the end of that period immediately before the Great White Throne Judgment.

Mark 16:15 also shows how the Temple was designed to be a place of prayer for all nations (referring to multiple passages in the O.T. including Jeremiah; Isaiah; Chronicles and others).

Hello Gerald

Apostles. Throughout the history of Christianity apostles have not ceased existing. Paul and the 12 and the rest carried the good news to a small part of the world, mainly in todays Middle East, Turkey and Greece, some went even further, to Rome(who actually, definitely not Paul). But in the following centuaries the gospel went all the world. By whom?. Somebody brought the good news to the UK, some believers to the Pagan Central and Northern Europe, some to the Americas, some to the Slavs, to Africa, to Asia ... Who were they, weren't those apostles? Nowadays some believers sacrifice their lives going and preaching in muslim countries and China, aren't those apostles? What are they? If not apostles, what are they? The mission of an apostle is to preach the gospel AND establish new churches. Whereas the mission of Evangelists is to preach the gospel and bring the new believers into an already existing church, in the region they are serving the Lord. So even today there are many apostles. How can one see if someone is an apostle? As you said from his life, his doctrines, but also from the results he is having and (very important) if God gives proofs of His ministry. Of course we haven't seen people like Peter, Paul, .. that perform huge miracles, but we still see people been born again, been baptized in the Spirit, getting healings, seeing visions etc. God always shows His face to honest people that love and serve Him. If you go to the Testimony section of this site you will read jaw droping testimonies about God's actions in peoples lives. In Ephesians the spiritual gifts are described, two of those are the apostle and the prophet. If we assume those do not exist anymore, then the rest should also not exist any more, but they all exist. If we accept that God is so near to us, actually inside us, why do we think it is over any logical thinking that He talks to us? If He doesn't talk to us, then He is distant God out there in the deep space. But He is not.