Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 327

Hello David,

I really love this chapter. It shows us the value of having the Holy Spirit indwelling and guiding the apostles and believers of his day. I am so glad the Spirit guided Paul and others to write down the teachings of the Holy Spirit for believers as well as preaching vocally to the churches of as they were created by God through the apostles.

And I am thankful that all believers, even us today, also have the Holy Spirit indwelling and guiding us, not to give us new revelation, but to confirm to our minds and souls that what is recorded in Scripture is truly the inerrant words of God for all believers and the Gospel is the power of God for salvation for yet to be believers. Unbelievers cannot make sense of the Scriptures unless the Holy Spirit spiritually opens their eyes to the Gospel first.

It is amazing that what is contained in Scripture is used by the Holy Spirit to operate as life-long instruction to believers. We can study the Word all of our lives and all along the way we continue to learn from the words God included in the Scriptures. The Holy Spirit keeps drawing us back to Scriptures over and over again in order that we will not only be trained and shaped by the Scriptures, but also to receive the power that He has put into His Words to transform us to be more and more like Jesus. It is also our clear lens by which to observe and interpret our world and our history, past and present. What a blessing upon blessing it is to have the Spirit within us and the Scriptures in tangible form to read and share.

Thanks brother Giannis. I also noticed that in the Greek Lexicon but didn't want to take my comment to that detail; as well, in my ignorance of the language, I was unsure why the two genders were being used in verses pertaining to the same person. But you see that both the Holy Spirit & the Church (the 'he' and 'it') are reflected in those verses. Thanks very much for that clarification.

Hello Alex,

Wy did you change your name on this site?

I hope that you are doing well. I continue to pray for your kids and mine and others who have grown children that have strayed away from the Lord. How are your kids doing?

I need help with temptations of the flesh,I want to be a righteous man,and pray

Nacol1900,

You may want to very carefully consider the verses below. If you are suggesting that God somehow speaks direct to us in a voice or a dream or a vision or a tongue once the Bible was completed, you are walking on very dangerous ground based on Rev 20:18,19.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

They ask Jesus what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world....Matthews 24:3....And he mentions sorrows....Child birth...b/c i have spoken these words ( his seeds ) sorrows have filled your hearts....A spritual pregnancy...When a woman is in travail she has sorrows but after the Child comes her sorrows are turned into joy....Ye now have sorrows but I will see you again....Whosoever receives one such Child in my name receives me....Its only the H.G. that Child of promise that comes in his name...And he shall be called by a new name that the mouth of the lord will name....Simply b/c Jesus is the father of the Child....As Isaiah refers to Jesus as everlasting father....The Child is the H.G. that Child of PROMISE...Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me....Thats y he has to know us...B/c i have spoken these words ( his Seeds ) sorrows have filled your hearts a spiritual pregnancy....The substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen....As the Child is the H.G. That Child of Promise.

......When he breathe on them he was regenerating himself with his breath which was his words his Seeds....That was the great Promise i will multiply thy Seed as the stars of heaven....His Seed is spirit....Thats y he was saying....That which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the new born babe the H.G.....The regeneration of Christ Jesus in humanity.....Blessed are them that follow me in the regeneration.... Matthew 19:28....When the sower will go forth to sow his precious seed in humanity as the field is the world... Matthew 13 :18 kjv....Thats y he always refers to himself as the SON OF MAN....Simply b/c mankind has to bring forth fruit unto God... Rev. 12:5 kjv...She brought forth a man child that is gonna rule all nations....The parable of the sower and his precious seed is about the regeneration of Christ in humanity...And the contents of the book that he wrote with his own blood...That book of life that N.C.....ok lemme go.GBU

Psalm 85 gives general promises after some sort of diaspora as to bringing back people from captivity (verse 1); forgiving iniquity (verse 2); and anger (verse 3).

Interestingly after these things are stated matter of factly; it seems there is a petition made for the very same thing (i.e. removal of God's anger) in verses 4 and 5. Verse 6 also seems to be asking for a return from captivity after it already is suggested in verse 1 to have occured.

Verses 7 through 9 show how God grants salvation (v. 7); and the fear of God brings glory to the land (verse 9). Verse 8 warns not to return to "folly" which shows the repeated patterns of rebellion that tend to occur after temporary and short lived repentance in Bible history.

Righteousness and truth mentioned in verse 10 are explained in verse 11 as existing in earth and heaven; without both of these things we cannot have mercy and peace. Verse 12 shows the crops and earth being fruitful; to be especially true in the Millennial Kingdom.

The final verse reminds us of Psalm 119:105 as to God being a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path. The Lord must illuminate our hearts or else all is in vain in our human understanding (see Proverbs 3:5).

Sorry I meant 2 Thess 2:6, not 2:5.

Hello Chris

In 2 Thessalonians 2:5. "the restrainer" is in neuter gender in grk , and in 2 Thess. 2:7 it is masculine. So it is both "it" and "he" (what is it in the Bible that it is both "it" and "he"?). Its precise meaning is "He(it) who has in his(its) possession", (grk "o/to katechon")

My opinion is that it is not something we can not think of, in such a case God would have revealed it to us. So it is something we can come to by studying the Scriptures. I too believe that It (He) is the Holly Spirit. "The Holly Spirit" who has in His possession the "church". There can be nothing else that makes sence.

Chris,

In this comment you referenced 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Several things about this verse, which must be read in the context of the entire chapter...

First, the word "way" at the end of the verse is the Greek word "mesos". It is found in the Bible 61 times. And 41 times in the KJV it is translated "midst". Also the word "letteth" is an Old English word meaning to "hold down or restrain".

So perhaps a better translation in today's language of the verse would be...For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now "restraineth will restrain", until he be taken out of the "midst".

So who is the "he" in this verse? I would suggest that in this verse, when read in the context of the entire chapter and the context of the entire Bible, that "he" is "God the Holy Spirit".

So what this verse and in fact the entire is chapter is teaching is this... That during the Church Age, when Satan has been bound ( Rev 20:2,3), God the Holy Spirit resides in the midst of the churches and is restraining the activity of Satan within the churches as that gospel is proclaimed from the churches to the world. But there will come a time when God's Judgement comes upon the churches ( 1 Pet 4:17), as it did upon National Israel, and the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the midst of the churches and Satan will be installed to rule there ( 1 Thessalonians 2:4).

This I believe occurred at the beginning of the Great Tribulation which is the day in which we are living. And for this reason God has commanded True Believers to come out of the churches ( Matt 24:16,17) where God is working outside of the churches to save a "great multitude which no man can number".

Hi Jimbob,

My understanding 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the same event as Matt. 24:30-31 1 Cor. 15:52 and verses in Revelation (the second coming of Jesus). In Revelation John covers different aspects of the same events in different chapters not in order. Rev. 10:7 in the days of the seventh trumpet, the mystery of God should be finished.

Rev. 11:15-19, the seventh angel sounds the seventh trumpet, "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord." This is the same event as we see in Rev. 19:11-16. All of these are the same event, the last trumpet sounds to announce His coming and the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus on earth, not carried to heaven.

When Jesus returns and the armies which were in heaven that followed, are angels, the saints were not in heaven. Matt. 25:31 Matt. 13:39 Mark 13:26-27. The resurrected chosen and faithful from around the world will meet Jesus in the air on the way down to Israel and Jerusalem.

Then we see the bowls of wrath in Rev. 16. In Rev. 19:17-18 the angel called the fowls to the supper of the great God. Rev. 19:19-21 The battle of Armageddon. Then the beast and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire, Satan is chained in the bottomless pit, and those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for one thousand years.

The marriage of the Lamb, the marriage supper, the bride, and the bride of the Lamb is only mentioned in Revelation. Rev. 19:7 Rev. 21:2 Rev 21:9 Rev. 22:17. When? It will be after all is made new, and where? It will be on the new earth. Jesus said this at the Last Supper, Matt. 26:29, Mark 14:25, and what the Spirit and bride said in Rev. 22:17.

I know my understanding may be different than yours and others, I could say more but this should show my understanding of this. I am thankful for this site and the brothers and sisters on it to be able to respectfully discuss the Bible.

I hope this answers your questions,

God bless,

RLW

Chris,

I am convinced that we can only understand the anti-Christ as being Satan himself, as he comes looking like Christ, as the Bible declares that he does.

Christians throughout the centuries have tried to identify a human being who is essentially controlled by Satan as the antichrist. Like, perhaps Alexander the great. In recent times it has been Hitler or Stalin, or some other political figure. That idea will not comport with what the Bible teaches about the antichrist when we look at every verse carefully.

I am convinced that we can only understand what God is teaching when we come to realize that God here is not talking about political nations in any sense. He is talking about the spiritual battle that is constantly going on between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. It is a spiritual battle. It is not a physical political battle in any sense.

Gal.2:21...I donot frustrate the grace of God....IF righteousness came by the law ( the letter the lesser light ) Christ died in vain. And the cross was just foolishness....Jesus said I am the light of the world but the nite comes when no man can work....The bible is precious and holy but we had no eternal life from the written word...The bible....Eternal life came by that New Covenant at Calvary in his blood....This is the N.C. in my blood drink ye all of it....The living word which is the H.G. Emanuel which is God with us....But when Jesus said these things are hid from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto babes....That excludes the bible as a teacher of mysteries..As only the anointing can teach us Spritual things....God is greater then paper and ink....Now under this N.C. its the H.G. the greater light that reveals God's KINGDOM....Thats y Jesus was saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. the greater light....That Child of Promise...The manchild that is gona lead us into all truth....The bible can be molested and has been molested by 100s of religions and writters....Just look at the MANY RELIGIONS AND THEIR BIBLES....Proves the letter is a killer ...They are dead to holiness and righteousness....but alive to materialistic things and money....And the honor that comes from men....The bible is precious and holy but there is a greater bible then paper and ink....Which is that BOOK of life in the fathers right hand....That New Covenant that Jesus wrote with his own blood...That book of life of the lamb of God....Whosoever was not found written in the book of life ( that new covenant in his blood )...Was cast into the lake of fire....Which is that baptism of the H.G. and fire....Which is that FIRE that Jesus wants to bring on all the world....Jesus said i come to bring fire on the earth....As our God is a consuming fire that lake of fire the H.G.

..... Mal. 3:2 Who shall stand when he appears for he shall be as a refiners fire etc.

1 Corinthians 2

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Page 2.

My thinking is that anti-Christ is the personification of all things evil, even as Satan incarnate. Human govt might at the beginning oppose any threat to their existence & power by some foreign entity & so will give initial resistance. But if that devilish outcrop comes from within the govt framework, say a leader from an alliance of nations thus being more acceptable, then any opposing force cannot be from a human origin but from a spiritual origin. And since, we're seeing Satan being given free rein, when once the Holy Spirit's Presence in the Church was prohibiting him, it seems almost certain that only after the Spirit's removal can anti-Christ/the satanic govt make their entrance. And we know that the Holy Spirit does not move within the world but within those who belong to Jesus ( 1 John 4:4). But first, there must be a falling away (v3) - a sad indictment against the Church (or, the false representation of it) when even God's Presence is no longer required, loved or preached. Blessings brother & nice to see you back - you've been missed.

Page 1.

Thank you bro. S. Spencer for your kind words, yet I'm hoping that with the volume of comments shared here, we can all learn from each other, but not in a way to demean anyone by displaying airs of superiority, but to appreciate one's beliefs from their point of understanding the Scriptures & how they should fit together. We might have a completely different understanding, but there's joy in just being able to examine the Word of God together & still know that our salvation is secure in Heaven in spite of our differences. I rarely can get into this type of discussion depth with Church members, so this Site is very special & precious to me to connect with others of like-minded interest & purpose. Personally, I've found this thread very useful & engaging both my mind & spirit & appreciate the sincerity & concern that Jimbob has for each one of us & our growth in knowledge.

To your post then: the problem that is raised here, & even posed to you by Jimbob, is 'how do we know that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit & not someone or something else, since a name is not given?' The Thessalonians knew exactly what Paul was referring to, but we're kept in the dark & guessing. In 2 Thessalonians 2:7, the translators have used the pronoun, 'he', though not specifically seen in the Greek, but it seems implied, even as other translations reveal. Various suggestions have been given, such as the Holy Spirit/the Church, human government or another entity that somehow comes in the way of anti-Christ's appearing.

Jimbob,

If you have been following my comments on Bible interpretation, you will understand why we may be arriving at different conclusions on some things.

We must keep in mind that Christ spoke in parables and without a parable spoke he not. And that we are to compare spiritual things with spiritual. That is the Bible is its own interpreter. Any conclusion we arrive at must harmonize with everything else the Bible is teaching on the subject.

Matthew 13:10-17

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Matthew 13:34,35

All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Chris,

Thank you again for responding. I had no particular person in mind when I stated what I believe to be the principles that God sets forth in His Word to guide us in interpreting scripture.

And I want to say that I have appreciated the back and forth we have had on this fundamental and crucially important question.

If I may quote from your last response:

"So, I felt the need to first establish those basic principles that should assist a Bible expositor/commenter on what it means to "rightly divide the Word". These should be fundamental principles that give a solid base before the Bible can be opened up for exploring, Scripture comparison, & Spirit-led insights."

In that statement I think you have summarized the commonly held approach to establishing the principles by which we are to interpret scripture. And if we were talking about any book by any human author, I would agree.

But the Bible is NOT just any book by a human author. The Bible is the Word of God Himself. Therefore we should not approach the Bible with a preconceived set of rules as to how we are to interpret it. We must look for those rules in the Bible itself and apply what God Himself declares to be the principles of Bible interpretation:

That Christ is the author of the whole Bible.

That Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

That Christ spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak.

That we are to compare spiritual things with spiritual. The Bible is its own interpreter.

That God has sealed up certain truths in the Bible only to be unsealed as we approach the end.

That the Bible alone and in its entirety is the Word of God.

These are the principles that God Himself has established that we must use as we seek to "rightly divide the word of truth".

Chris i disagree with you and David in the spirit of love...The bible is not the sole means to understand the scriptures....As the bible answers to the letter the lesser light....The bible ( the lesser light ) is the reason we have a zillion different Churches on every corner....rendering our world in deep darkness....Its only the Anointing the H.G. that God wants to give humanity that can teach us All things..... 1st John 2:27....Speaks of a New Creature COMING IN HIS NAME the ANOINTING the H.G....As the scriptures the letter is a killer....Its only his words that are spirit and life...Which is the H.G. That Child of Promise..Emanuel

that we receive of him and he abides in us and we need no man teach us....But this Anointing will teach you all things....And you need no man teach you....The gift of the H.G. WILL TEACH US ALL THINGS....He is our internal pastor that will lead us into all truth....Which is the manchild ( mans fruit unto God) The H.G. the Anointing....Thats y Jesus said abide in me and i in you....That good shepherd lives in us....Which is the Anointing the H.G. that wants to be married to us....Its the book in the right hand of the father that Jesus wrote with his own blood that New Covenant in his blood that we need to focus on....We all love the bible with all our hearts but the BOOK in the right hand of the father trumps the bible the letter the lesser light....A killer....Eternal life is only in the living words of our lord....Which are living beings the Children of Promise.

2 Cor.3:6 ....He has made us able ministers of the NEW Covenant....Not of the letter But of the Spirit...For the letter killeth but the Spirit the H.G gives life....The Anointing.....Where shall we go lord thou has the words of eternal life....But we must be bornagain of his incorruptible seed (his living words ) b/f we can interface with his words of life...As our lord said these things are hid from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto babes....Not Paper and ink.

I do agree with what you've written here, David0920, that the Bible alone must be our ultimate authority. Everything we need is found in it. But when you shared in your first post in the other thread about noticing the different interpretations being given by others (not your words here, but what I can recall from that thread), I sensed that you had particular folk in mind, maybe even from my comments to others on their biblical questions. So, I felt the need to first establish those basic principles that should assist a Bible expositor/commenter on what it means to "rightly divide the Word". These should be fundamental principles that give a solid base before the Bible can be opened up for exploring, Scripture comparison, & Spirit-led insights. This of course, can never guarantee that we all must come to an agreement (as you can see clearly here in these pages), but at least the person commenting should first assess whether his approach to reading the Scriptures are established on clear irrefutable ground rules & not on what was read or heard, or even what seems to make sense to the natural mind.

Page 3.

You're quite correct: there's no trumpet sound mentioned in Revelation 19:11-21. In Matthew 24:31, it is the 'episunago' (gathering, or assembling, together in one place) of the Elect. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17, it is the 'harpazo' (the snatching away from one place to another place), of the Church. Different Greek words which require a different understanding & application, implying both a different type of 'removal' of believers. One, a gathering, the other, a snatching away. And this snatching away is a pre-emptive act before the appointed Great Tribulation of God: beginning in a modest limited way (at the beginning of the last seven years), but ending in the final outpouring of God's Wrath. And this is Revelation 19:11-21 (with no trumpet call), the descent of those prepared from Heaven for that final battle & eternal securing & suffering of the beast & his prophet. Thank you again Jimbob for the time, effort & patience you've given to this thread. Blessings.

Page 2.

How then does the Holy Spirit (His Presence & Work) fit into this scenario? These 144K were not sealed previously (7:3) but now were sealed by the angel. The Holy Spirit is not evident here - all that is taking place, with the survivors who learned to cleave to the Lord & His Word during the Great Tribulation, have done so without the aid of the Holy Spirit. One could correlate this time to the OT days before the Holy Spirit was sent out by Jesus to be with & in His disciples & His Church. There were many in the OT/pre-Cross eras that truly believed in God & then in His Christ, but their faith & devotion would not be made complete (or, ratified) without the Perfect Sacrifice being offered for them. Then, if the Holy Spirit was now removed for the sake of anti-Christ's revelation, then those 144K sealed of Israel plus the believing from the nations, will be looking backwards to the Cross for their salvation & not forward as the pre-Cross believers. And yes, the Holy Spirit was absent now as He was then, i.e. by His not indwelling the believer.

The location of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? As earlier discussed, I believe this is the SUPPER of celebration & not the MARRIAGE; the marriage had already taken place when sinner & Savior were united in One, by His Spirit. And I see this Supper occurring on Earth as understood from the Scriptures, but I wouldn't force my view, if it was believed to be in Heaven.

Page 1.

If we could continue Jimbob & thanks again for the questions. I see you have your time fully occupied with other responses, so any delay in replying here is understood.

I've never heard that expression used: "the harvest of the church", though certainly, "the rapture of the Church". As mentioned, Rev 14:13 states, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from HENCEFORTH: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them". I understand that, as pertaining to those who die under anti-Christ's rule (those who refuse his Mark, unlike those who accept it: Rev 14:9-11). "Henceforth", I believe means 'from this time forward'. Hence there must have been those who "died in the Lord" before this time, but those are not referred to here, because they are not here, only those who are commonly referred to as 'tribulation saints'. And so in verses 14-20, the command given to Jesus that the time had come to 'thrust in his sickle' (so the full reaping had to commence). But verses 18-20 speak of another angel who thrust in his sickle - and this was the gathering of those fit for God's Wrath (of destruction). Since parts of the revelation given to John are not necessarily in chronological order, we read that more plagues are to come to men in Revelation chapters 15 &16; maybe a description of the torment leading up to Jesus' & the angelic work of chapter 14:14-20.

When we read Revelation chapter 7, I take note of the whole chapter to keep it in context. When the angel (in verse 2) holding the seal appears (presumably the seventh Seal of Revelation 8:1), God's servants were sealed; & these were numbered at 144,000 of the tribes of Israel (you may as some others, understand this great crowd differently). So these form that great multitude (v9), with the other "nations, kindreds, peoples & tongues", to have survived the anti-Christ pogrom (since they "came out of great tribulation"). This paragraph continued on Page 2.

Are the food choices mentioned above for us Today ?

Regardless if you believe in God or not, read this message!



Throughout history, we can see how we have been slowly conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?



In the last book of the Bible, Revelation 13:16-18, we read,



"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.



Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."



Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why? Revelation 13:17 tells us that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!



These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!



This is where it really starts to come together. It is amazing how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here are notes from someone named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:



"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and contro

S Spencer Would you mind answering a few questions? You posted, Now look at the chronological order in 2.Thes.2:7-8 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." 'AND THEN SHALL THAT WICKED BE REVEALED" whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. Then you said "This is the Holyspirit being removed and "then" the Antichrist shall be revealed. (1st) question. Nothing written in these verses say the Holy Spirit is removed , so if one cannot provide verses as proof, Is it not (assuming) the Holy Spirit is removed?) You said "The deception performed by the Antichrist is one coming as their Messiah, and he will deceive many." The antichrist WILL DECEIVE MANY, (2nd) question. If the Holy Spirit and ALL Believers are taken from the earth, Who would be left to be deceived? only non-believers would be left on the earth and they were already deceived or they would not have been left on the earth. (3rd) question. Why do almost all believers in the pre-tribulation rapture never talk about 2.Thes.2:1-4? (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him. (The subject here is the return of Jesus and our gathering together unto Him) v.3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for ((that day shall not come)), except there come ((a falling away first)), ((and that man of sin [be revealed], the son of perdition)). (That man of sin, the son of perdition ((is the antichrist)) and he ((WILL BE REVEALED)) ((before)) the day of the Lord comes and our gathering together unto Him. The first 4 verses say the antichrist will be revealed before the return of Jesus! Then in verse 7, it has to be assumed its speaking of the Holy Spirit being removed with zero scripture to back that up. These verses prove the opposite of pre-tribulation is true when read in context. Thanks for your reply Spencer.

Thank you, Steven. Appreciate you.

2 Chronicles 8:14, 23:18-19

David0920 I agree with you on one thing, we are living the End times now. Ill just go with what you said "I understand this is contrary to the understanding of many and may be disturbing" David we have to keep scripture in context to get the Truth. You are taking scripture completely out of context. Scripture says Satan will be bound 1000 years, so he will be bound 1000 years don't add to the Word unless its written in the Word. This happens after Jesus returns to the earth riding a white horse also, read it. I hope you see this in the way its intended, to be helpful for you. We will never stop learning, the Word of God Is Alive today. I will repeat your words David, "Please do not believe me. Read and study the Bible". (But keep it In context)!

Very nicely laid out brother Chris!

Now look at the chronological order here in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8."For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"AND THEN SHALL THAT WICKED BE REVEALED", whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This is the Holyspirit being removed and "then" the Antichrist shall be revealed!

The Holyspirit dwells in the body of believers unlike the way He worked and moved under the old covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 and

Hebrews 10:16.

Mathew 28:18-20 says something interesting that we can tie into 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8.

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I AM WITH YOU ALWAY, EVEN UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD. Amen.

a) We're put into the body of believers "IDENTIFIED" With Christ.

Satan has ministers amongst us but Satan has no power over the Church!

Genesis 3:15. ( We are baptized into him that will bruise Satan's head.)

1 John 4:4. ( We have already overcome what's coming upon the world!)

Matthew 16:18. ( Gates in scripture is always used as defense. So who's on the offence and overcomes? The Church!! )

b) "I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen"

WE ARE BAPTIZED IN CHRIST AND HE WILL NEVER LEAVE US.

Unlike Judaism the Church is not looking for their Messiah. .

We have him with and in us!!

The deception performed by the Antichrist is one coming as their Messiah, and he will deceive many!!

That can't happen while the Church is in the world.

1 John 2:20-28.

Thanks Brother!

We're learning a lot from your teachings.

God bless you.