Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 402

Adam,

It is true that if God had saved us we are eternally secure. But we must remember what it means to be "saved".

If God has saved us, it means that every sin that we have ever committed or will ever commit has been paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ. And we will never "again" experience the "judgment" of God which is eternal destruction.

If we have truly become saved, i.e. Born Again, it means that God has given us a New Soul, a Resurrected Soul, in which we will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to what the Bible teaches, both in doctrine and in practice. There will be a huge change in our attitude and behavior toward sin.

We do still have a body that lusts after sin so we do commit sin and will never be perfectly obedient to God in our whole personality until we receive our Resurrected Spiritual Body on the Last Day.

God commands us to examine ourselves to see if we have become saved. To strive to enter in at the straight gate. And if we are not certain of our salvation we can cry to God for His Mercy in the very real hope that He might save us, if that would be His will.

A beautiful passage describing God's action in saving His Children is Eze 36:24-33. Notice that all of the action is God's action.

I was reffering to his claim that "faith is a work" and to his wrong idea about predestination. All of this is Calvinism, and not true.

About Salvation, Ephesians 1:13. Once someone hears the Gospel and believes he is SEALED. Once saved always saved.

I agree , it's very worrying . Christ talks about the deceitfulness of riches , that's a very powerful comment from our Saviour and one that I try to keep in my heart . I think that Paul warns us against the belief that 'Godliness is gain ' . All of us , myself included , need to watch our attitude towards money , money is a very powerful tool that the devil can make use of , to our detriment .

Amen. I agree with what you said.

In my opinion its like watching a driver speed toward a cliff and ignore warning signs to exit now, cliff ahead. Flashing lights, sirens, countless warnings all ignored because of a belief that the signs don't really mean it. The Bible is full of warnings after warnings to everyone, both believers and non-believers. It's full of challenges, parables about how most people will go to hell. Matt 7:21 should scare some who consider themselves Christians but are inactive and not following Christ's teachings. The Bible says to fear God. It says it many, many times. Christianity is a walk, an action of following Jesus's footsteps.

But other Christians seem to have been convinced that none of that matters in the Bible- that its all for nothing, because of the lie that you don't have control anyway. That's the same argument that homosexuals make- that they're the way they are, don't have choices, and they can't help but sin and how dare you tell them otherwise, because sin is part of their identity. Same argument could be used to justify other gross sins and criminal acts.

Since satan is the father of all lies, and since there's only one truth, which is satan most likely behind: that he's deceiving christians into obeying God "more than necessary" or that he's deceiving christians into believing they don't need to obey God at all?

Calvinism seems to be the ultimate have your cake and eat it too. Sin is fun and most Christians would absolutely love the opportunity to go out and commit huge sins with zero consequence and still feel 100% secure in your salvation. But unfortunately, even though we can only be saved by grace, that doesn't mean we shouldn't put 100% effort into following Christ as a real Christ follower! A common false assumption is that obeying God somehow automatically means you're trying to "earn" heaven. Straw man argument. The Bible already addressed grace and obedience in Romans 6, so its shocking to see it ignored. James 2 is hugely ignored, like cryptonite to some believers. Pray deeply about this, about the truth, that no souls are lost from believing lies.

Hello Ryan, good to meet you here.

Hebrews 3:1 tells us that Jesus is our Apostle and High Priest. So, He is the only apostle among us today. He is the Apostle and Priests of all believers. Otherwise, all of His apostles, including Paul have died, having left their inspired writings for us to learn from them of the knowledge of God in But now, our Apostle is Jesus Christ, the Author and the Finisher of our faith. The Holy Spirit "takes what is His (Jesus) and reveals it to us".

Hi Alleylee. I agree with what Ryan has shared with you about the apostolic position ending with the Apostle Paul. However, there seems to be a reference to Paul's companion, Barnabas, also being referred to as an apostle ( Acts 14:14). Even as the word, 'apostle' (in Greek, 'apostolos') means 'a messenger or one sent on a mission', which gives this word a more general meaning, one should be careful in seeking an appointment to apostleship. Today, the word 'missionary', or 'servant of the Lord, a preacher of the Gospel', may better fit the ministry of carrying the Good News to others/other nations. The Apostolic Church is one type of Fellowship that fosters the positions of apostles, prophets, etc. You may or may not find yourself at variance with their other beliefs concerning the Trinity, Holy Spirit baptism, falling from Grace, etc.

For the most part, this is well said. You are almost there with the first thing you said, that we being members being compared to a mystery.

The Body of Christ is THE mystery Eph 3:1-9! It is not just an illustration. It is also a spiritual truth and spiritual doctrine. Remember 1 Cor 12:13

Calvinism is gnostic and a false Gospel. GOD desires all men to be saved. Men have free will. People go to hell not because GOD regected them before they were even born. People go to hell because they regected GOD. On the day of judgment no one will have an accuse ( Romans 1:20), like saying "But GOD you didn't even give me a chance to believe, it's your fault I'm in here, in hell...".

Beware of Calvinism. It mocks the character of GOD and is a false gnostic gospel. Study to see it is so. All scripture in the Bible show otherwise.

Amen David.

Gigi this is the example I have given when one trample over the blood of Christ. Hebrews 10:29.

Romans 10:4-11. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

FOR WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; AND WITH THE MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION.

( If you claim you don't know that you are saved until you die and is judged how do you confess it?

WITH THE MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION IS TO LATE IF YOU ARE DEAD!

( Here's one of many verses that speaks on eternal security)

FOR THE SCRIPTURE SAITH, WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.

Was not Christ judged on the cross taking the penalty of our sins? Yes.

Was he not the Lamb of God? Yes.

Was it sufficient? Isaiah 53:7-10.

How many of those sins was future?

If you can earn it you can loose it.

But if it is a gift and you didn't earn it, how could you loose it?

We are saved by GRACE.

For by grace are ye saved "THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10.

Grace can't be taken away.

God bless.

A more excellent way

2 Ti 2:15 study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"

1 Cor 3 mentions what the judgment seat of Christ looks like. We'll receive reward or suffer loss (gold silver precious stones; wood hay or stubble).

One distinct difference between reward/loss is one's understanding of the Bible. It is to be rightly divided. Meaning it's all for us, yes ( 2 Ti 3:16), but only some of it is written to and about us specifically (us meaning Gentiles according to the flesh.)

The portion of scripture written to and about us is Romans - Philemon. The rest is 100% regarding God and Israel. Paul is our (Gentiles according to the flesh) apostle. All scripture is good for doctrine but you have to rightly divide doctrine. Forgiveness is a perfect ensample. There's a difference between ( Mat 6:14 /// Eph 4.32 /// Col 3:13). The difference is ok because there are two programs in scripture: the kingdom(/prophecy) and the mystery.

We **MUST FIRST** build our foundation on Paul's epistles (Rom - Philemon) then go beyond that once our foundation is solid.

Isa 53 mentions that the nation of Israel is healed by the stripes of Christ. Well, we nowadays, under the mystery are made to sit together with Christ in heavenly places! We have been blessed by the Father with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ! ( Eph 2:6 / 1:3 respectively /// Col 1:27 the mystery which is Christ in you, the hope of glory!).

We have a heavenly hope/inheritance today (the mystery program), just as Israel **had and will have** an earthly hope/inheritance (the prophetic/kingdom program).

There is much, much more that goes into rightly dividing. So there will be more posts from me regarding this subject and many others. I just want to help you by shewing yourself approved unto God. The only way to do so is rightly dividing the word.

Grace be unto and peace, from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Check out Proverbs 8

"His father's wife" means his step mom.

I do not know about the second part for sure; but I think 1). it's talking about the dad and son getting "involved physically" (and my stomach is twisting at the very thought) because remember how vile and sick people were at that time.

2). It is talking about cross dressing (v5)

Plus the context begins in v22 to talking about fornication/sexually immoral behavior.

Alleylee

How does one become ordained as an Apostle today.

One doesn't. 1 Cor 4.9 "God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death" there are no more apostles today because the work of an apostle (as well as prophecy and revelation) are finished/completed. Defining the word "apostle" just simply by one being "sent" doesn't cut the mustard.

It's like the word "perfect." There is a worldly and biblical definition for the word. So it is with the word "apostle." The worldly definition isn't even worth acknowledging. Is the Bible the final authority or not, after all? There's specific requirements to be a biblical apostle. They are no longer in effect. For the 12, you had to be apart of the Lord's earthy ministry since the beginning of his ministry ( Acts 1:21-22). Then Paul is a completely separate apostle by revelation of Jesus Christ. ( Gal 1:1, 12 /// 1 Tim 1:16 /// 2 Tim 1:9)

There are no more apostles. Now there are only ambassadors of Christ, whom God commits all the ministry of reconciliation ( 2 Cor 5:18-19).

The spirit of revelation and wisdom in the knowledge of him, as well as grace be unto and peace, from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wow, Adam, I didn't know that churches have ATM's in their places of worship. My goodness, that is concerning. But then it makes it easier for people to withdraw money to put in the collection plate! So, that is the whole idea of it--to get more money out of more people. Pretty weird what is happening in many churches in today's times.

I love this

I feel uncomfortable with churches with ATMs in their lobby, trading good/services for money. Jesus was angry with the money changers in the temple and to me this seems like the modern day equivalent. It's amazing how arrogant people are in terms of thinking they don't need to obey Jesus for this or that rationalization. I would think naturally a Christ follower would want to follow Christ's instruction in everything even at the risk of you doing more than what is 'required', but instead what I see most often is Christians trying hard to interpret scriptures in such as way so that they DON'T have to follow Him. And often Christians will commit gross sins that God hates then rationalize it somehow like its not sin to God or that He doesn't care or that they don't have control over their own bodies. So many lies.

Even Paul was frustrated with Christians committing fornication and warns them in 1 Cor 5:1 and 1 Cor 1:2 confirms this letter was to the church of Christians in Corinth. This is in the Bible and I've had conversations with Christians that deny that its even possible for them to sin. Amazing how deceptive the father of lies is.

How does one become ordained as an Apostle today.

Hello again,

Part 2

continued...and desire salvation.

Another thing that may be at play here is what Adam speaks to about not being saved until the end since Jesus said that whoever endures to the end (in faith) will be saved and that the completed salvation of all of our being is a yet to be fulfilled event. I don't think that David was necessarily speaking about this, but it does speak to whether one who believes in Jesus can turn away from their faith and thus be in a lost state again. Adam, you made some good points on this topic. It deserves much consideration to come to understand what the Scriptures really teach about the security of believers.

While I am not her committing to any specific view, as I do not wish to choose sides. But this conversation is very interesting to me and I am looking forward to reading more from both of you. Thank you for sharing your ideas.

Hello Adam and David. I think both of you have made good points concerning the teaching of Scripture.

My understanding of what David was emphasizing is that from the standpoint of Galatians 2:16, our justification is based wholly on what Jesus did to bring about our salvation. Also, elsewhere, in Romans 3:22, it is said that our righteousness is not of ourselves but of "the faith of Jesus," (this is the same phraseology as used in Gal. 2:16). This Romans verse is attributing our righteousness to that of Christ's pure righteousness being imputed to us. So, in both of these verses, justification and righteousness come from Jesus and even our faith comes from Him. It is a gift that we received that enables us to believe the Gospel. Adam, I think that you have stated such in past posts, as I recall. So, I think we a ll agree on these points, but I may be mistaken.

What is at issue here, from what I can tell, is the matter of the extent of the freedom of man's will in being able to choose to have faith in Jesus. Many Christians will speak as David has, that mankind cannot on his own will choose to turn to God or believe. We must be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. We can not regenerate ourselves. Along with this regeneration comes the gift of faith and the power of the Spirit to activate this faith. Many who believe along this line of theology will say that man's corruption from sin has left his free will depraved and able to only choose to not serve God, have faith in Him, and turn to Him.

This is why there needs to be an initial action from God to regenerate us and make us new so that our free will can be made new (along with the rest of our being) so that we can turn to God and walk in faith provided for us in Jesus Christ.

There are other Christians who believe that we are able to cooperate with the Spirit of God to believe before we are regenerated. This would mean that man's free will was corrupted ny sin but not to the point that he cannot desire after God.

To me , when a church is run more like a business than a place of worship , things can get very dangerous . In all honesty , if I was a member of a rich church I would be very uncomfortable with that and would much rather be part of a poor congregation than a rich one . Luke chapter 19 verses 45+46 . Remember who , out of the desciples , it was that was in charge of their funds . Ask yourself why does Jesus refuse to give his judgement in Luke chapter 12 verses 13+14 .? Did God give Jesus lots of money to give away and help solve people's problems ?

( Matt 22:1-14) The invitations were sent out by a father arranging a wedding feast for his son (as Heavenly Father for His Son). The gospel (invitation) was given to Jews first (God's chosen people) but was made light of and rejected by them. So then wedding invitations (the gospel) went to others in the highways and hedges (gospel was preached to the Gentiles), and the wedding hall was filled. The wedding garment is our garment of salvation ( Isa 61:10) received through Christ. The man who is not wearing his wedding garment had not received salvation and is as the one in Matt 7:21-23 who pretended to be saved, but Jesus said, "I NEVER knew you."

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Many received the invitation to salvation, but only a few of God's chosen received it. (Many called, few chosen.)

Galatians 3:27 (KJV) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ (put on wedding garments).

2 Peter 1:10 (NKJV) Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your calling and election sure.

Hello, thanks for sharing but that's not what God says in His word.

What scripture verse do you claim to be the source of your idea that faith is a result of salvation?

And what scripture verse do you cite to claim that you're saved now before you're even judged?

Paul said the one verse you're citing, but did you notice that Paul also warned ( 1 Cor 4:14) Christians to obey and not stray from the faith. God gives you that choice- he will allow you to commit despicable evil as we see people do every day, as is covered by the news. Christians also leave the faith, as evidenced by those we know in person and those forum groups like on Reddit where they talk about it. To deny this reality is to deny truth. Did God cause them to leave the faith? No, people did using their own freewill and bad choices. They will not be saved if they are not following Christ. Not all Christians will be "saved" on judgment day.

I don't know if you believe in freewill or not, that God is forcing you to type things on this site you don't want to say of if you believe you are doing it. If God forces you to eat things you don't want to eat like Taco Bell or ice cream. But about freewill of course there's only one truth- either its true or not, not both. And its true for me, so are people claiming its not true for them? And is that God speaking through them that its not true or is that their own doing and how can they 100% prove they are not in control of their bodies whatsoever? Some may be deceived and use this as justification to sin against God and perhaps some may be dishonest about it.

1 Cor 4:5 says to judge nothing before the Lord comes and then the Lord will then judge us, but people seem to like judging themselves as saved so some can then make excuses to disobey God.

Romans 15:5 Paul says we need endurance. He warns us, says to endure, and 1 Corinthians 9:24 says to run the race so to win the prize. The refutes the popular narrative.

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
Hebrews 10:26, James 2:14-26, Matthew 7:21-23

Dear Sammi and others on this thread,

I agree that giving of our time and talents is what God wants us to do, but I God has also demonstrated that those who serve the church as leaders should be compensated. So, giving monetarily to the staff and work of a church is important. Also, some ministries are worthwhile to give monetarily to as they do good work for those in need in big ways. I think it is good to do all of these things with generosity and concern for the needs of others. We are to do as God has led us not by demands nor manipulative tactic of others.

I also think that there are people and ministries that take advantage of the generosity of believers and misuse and mishandle the monetary gifts people send them. This is sad. But I do that there are many people and ministries that are diligent about using monetary gifts in godly ways. We should prayerfully support those we know well that will use our giving in ways that honor God and truly help others. Discernment and good research on such people and ministries is advised.

But even so, we should pray for God to give us true compassion and generosity to be able and willing to bless others with our gifts as well as a servant's heart to be willing to get into the trenches and help others. I know need more of these attributes and to put them into action more than I am doing now.

Hello Hammer 63

In these passages Scripture speaks of God not changing His mind or changing.

Numbers 23:19 1Sam. 15:29. Ps. 110:4 Mal. 3:6

In these passages Scripture speaks of God's knowledge of man's hearts, thoughts, actions, and history.

Mt. 12:25 John 2:24 1 Kings 8:39 Ps. 139:1 Ps. 94;!0 Is. 40:14 Is.46:10 1 Sam. 2:3 Mt. 6:8 Lk. 16:13

I firmly believe that Scripture states unequivocally that God is the same, today, yesterday, and forever (Heb, 13:8; 1:12; Ps. 102:27). This means that He never changes in any way. Scripture also says that He has all wisdom and knowledge that is to be known. I believe that God is omniscient (all-knowing) without every gaining knowledge or forgetting anything. If he could gain or lose knowledge, then this would indicate a change in Him, but the Scriptures say that He never changes.

When the Scriptures elsewhere speak of God repenting, they are talking about His grieving in real time (from man's perspective). But in eternity, God always has known of how wicked mankind would become and that He always will be grieved by it. The Scriptures do not say that God is surprised by any situation, decision, nor actions of mankind. We, in our limitedness and fallenness can speculate that He must be taken by surprise because we would be.

Hammer, I am glad that you responded to me. I have given you my response and I know that my belief aligns with Scripture and the consistent teaching of the church over the centuries. You are free to think your own way, but I always try to remember when something in Scriptures perplexes me that "there is a way that seems right to a man ( Pr. 14:12) but its end is the way of death." So, therefore, I study to know the God and His nature more thoroughly so that I can hold my perplexing thoughts up to what I know is true of God.

Hello Rick and Bailey

I have been in your place with a babe that would not sleep much without me being right with him. My youngest was quite colicky and would not nap during the day more than 30 minutes or so. At night, he would only sleep well on my chest. This went on for five months before he actually slept for a whole hour during the day. He still would wake often during the night to nurse.

Being my third child, I was more relaxed about this than if he was my first. But I was exhausted and had walking pneumonia when he was 6 months old. The other two boys were sick on and off through since his birth and he had multiple sinus/ear infections since he was 2 months old. Since my husband was working, I was on my own during the day with a very fussy babe, a 2 and a half year old and a Kindergartener.

I will pray for your family.

Dear Heavenly Father, we lift this family up to You in the name of Jesus and ask that You supply their needs in all ways. Bring a job for Rick quickly. Help Bailey with caring for this babe, giving them a successful nursing relationship so that Mae will thrive. We ask that You bring to Mae's body what is needed for her to be a calm baby who sleeps adequately during the day and night. Keep this situation with Mae's sleeplessness short and not let it drag out for months and months. Help Bailey to stay calm and be willing to nurse Mae as much and often as Mae needs to sustain her and cause her to grow well as well as provide the pacification and soothing babies need from nursing. Amen.

We must not use the fact that we are not saved by our works as an excuse to not help out other people . Remember Matthew chapter 25 verse 31-46 and James chapter 2 .

I'm glad for you and your new job . May God bless you and guide you to always do the right thing in your place of work .

I totally agree , good works are the result of our knowledge of the love of God towards us and our willingness to show the love of God to others . That's how I see it . I cannot be saved by anything I do , I feel the love of God and His blessings in my life and I want grow in love . Love is not something I'm very good at , so I asked God to help me with it and He has helped me and now , because I can feel love I want to express it . Is that a bad thing ? Believe me , when I was young I had a heart of stone and in my twenties I realised that it probably wasn't a good thing for me . Thanks to God I now have a heart of flesh .

want to know more on luke 15

Salvation is 100% the Work of God

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It is critical to recognize this important truth about the Nature of Salvation. Notice in Gal 2:16 and other passages that it is the Faith OF Christ that saves us. That is Christ's faithfulness in paying the full penalty required for the sins of His Elect which were chosen in Christ before the foundation of that world, drawing them, and applying that salvation to each individual by giving them their Resurrected Soul, and completing their salvation by giving them their Resurrected Spiritual Body on the Last Day.

Our faith IN Christ and IN the Word of God, the Bible, is a RESULT of our salvation and not the CAUSE nor the MEANS of our salvation. The faith that we exercise is a gift of God and a WORK that we do. And no WORK that we do can contribute to our salvation in any way.

If we are trusting in any WORK that we do as contributing to our salvation we are in danger of walking in the shoes of the man who picked up a few sticks on the Sabath Day and was executed as a result. The fourth commandment to do no WORK on the Sabath of the Old Testement was a ceremonial law pointing to the fact that the True Gospel is a gospel where God does all of the work to save us. And if we are following a gospel that requires any work on our part, we are following a false gospel that cannot save. God does ALL of the WORK in saving us.

This truth, unfortunately, has not been well understood throughout the history of National Isreal nor the Churches.