All Discussion PAGE 932

John 17 and Predestination/Election

An interesting note in this chapter is in verse 14; where it is said that the world hated the Disciples. This is a departure from John 7:7 where He told them the opposite. Clearly; there was a change with understanding to the Apostles and whoever else stuck with Him; as they saw increasing resistance once miracles occurred and particularly when Christ got to the last weeks and months of His ministry when He was in a more public venue.

Verse 2 shows once again that saving faith or eternal life is given to all those given to Him (election); and verse 6 shows what we might call "perseverance of the saints". Verse 8 shows the RESULT of this that they have indeed "believed and received" them. The prayer in verse 9 further shows that the focus is not on the whole world but to believers.

Verse 15 and 16 asks His children to be kept from evil (or the evil one). The following verses (v. 17-20) basically talk about "sanctification"; with glorification in 21-24. The theme of unity also is evident; and once again verse 25 shows how the world doesn't know the Father but those to whom He has been sent know Him. Hence; our realization of truths comes from God initiating understanding. The chapter then discusses love between the Father and Christ and in His people.

We should always remember that there is a relationship; an intimate knowledge in the inner man between the Lord and individual believers. Especially in the light of our High Priest who suffered all things as we did but without sin ( Heb. 4:15). This is essentially a restoration of broken fellowship after Adam sinned; but also will lead to a superior state once we are in His presence than to where Adam was before he sinned. We will have an imperishable body; incorruptible; and without sin or the capacity to do so.

Hey David, Peace to you brother

Malefactor simply means "a criminal" which that's what a thief is.

If you do an interlinear study on the verse thru Bible Hub it may change your perspective a bit.

The word is kakourgos, a technical word implying criminality.

the Definition: a criminal, the Usage: (lit: an evil-worker), a criminal; Peace

Dear Saly, I will pray for you today.

Dear Heavenly Father, today we pray for Felix. Please bring him to repentance and faith soon. He needs you more than he can ever know. Deliver Felix from alcohol abuse. Take away the desire and addition to drink alcohol. Put a deep love within Felix for Sally so that he will love her in a godly way, forsaking rudeness and mistreatment of her. Along with all of these requests for Your work in Felix, we ask that You bring a mighty renewal in their marriage. Restore to both Sally and Felix a deep love for one another and an openness to work on being changed by Your Holy Spirit, weeding out what is sinful and creating in both Sally and Felix godliness and healthy interactions with one another. Bless them today, Father, in the name of Your Son, Jesus. Amen.

Thanks brother Spencer,

Good to see you back on here. I have not seen you for awhile. Hope all is well with you!

Amen Brother Jesse.

Great lesson.

Thanks and God bless.

Please pray husband Felix salvation marriage deliverance from alcohol FATHER GOD restore my marriage remove his rudeness give him love compassion kindness towards me in Jesus name thank you

Yes, was Jesus crying out; Psalms 22:1, "My GOD my GOD, why hath thou foresaken me"._..._, repeating the words of David, who was also prophecying of Jesus in that very moment? I agree with Luke. Psalms 22:1,7,8,13,14,15,16,17,18,22,23,24,25,27,30,31

GiGi,

Amen and blessed indeed!

Blessed, from the word MAKARIOS which means to experience the fulness of something or someone. We are blessed/Makarios because we have the creator of the entire universe living inside us and we get to experience Him in His fullness!

The lion lays down with the lamb an there is peace

Adam. I believe the question is answered if you believe he was 100% God

And100% man.

Ok i get it now. I just could not beleive he was actually talking about eating his body and drinking his blood, then there would not be enough him to go around back in that time. Ok i completely under stand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

The number crucified with Jesus Christ. I was taught and tradition holds

That their were two crucified with Jesus,yet when you read all the gospels

Concerning that event it isn't the case. In Mathew 27: 32 after the led him

Out and parted his garments parted his garments and set down the then were

Two thrives crucified with him and both the thieves verse 44 cast the same

At his teeth. Now Mark states in 15:27 basically says what Mathew says

Then Luke 23: 26 they lay !hold of Simon to carry his wooden cross then verse

32 there were two malefactors led with him to be put to death. In Mathew you

Had two thieves already there and in Luke you have two malefactors led with

Him also in Mathew both men reviled Jesus but in Luke 23:39-43 one said

Remember me when you get to your kingdom. Now someone will say a thief

Is a malefactors and that's true but not all malefactors are thieves and when you

Look up in Greek malefactors and thieves are not the same word so when working

All four gospels there were four crucified with him.

Thank you. Jesse, for such a good explanation of this topic.

I do think that Jesus was speaking of spiritual nourishment in this text. And, yes, it is the Spirit that gives life, not the flesh. So eternal life cannot be attained from man to God, rather from God to man in the person of Jesus Christ. Even our physical body is not alive without being given life by the Spirit to be conceived and grow to maturity, but this physical life ends. But eternal life IS communion with God, which is attained through our Savior, Jesus Christ by faith from the working of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. And then, forevermore, the Spirit of God will indwell us and sustain us. And we are communion with God the Father, through the Son, Jesus, will be eternally unbroken. How blessed we are in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yes! it is

Mishael,

So true about getting to know the Spirit of God who always points us to Jesus. And so true about the Spirit leading us into the "desert" at times to learn of Him and be sustained by His Word without outside influence and to be tested to strengthen our faith by giving God all of our weakness in exchange for a stronger faith through an over-flowing filling of the Holy Spirit "and power.

We can get so busy in "doing" for Christ (church work, everyday ministry to our families and friend) that we become weak and exhausted, so the Spirit leads us into the desert. Sometimes we are walking a road of compromise and He leads us into the desert to become whole and sound again. Other times He leads us into the desert to be radically changed by His overwhelming Presence and Holiness. But in every desert experienced there is sanctification and intimacy and victory that cannot be taken hold of any other way.

God bless you today, Mishael. Thank you for your inspiration in your post. I am always blessed by what you say.

Hi JLind007,

There's nothing more devastating. As a young child, I witnessed its effects in my mother of the sudden death of my only sibling. A committed conservative Christian, mom learned to lean strongly on God, although she never really recovered. After many years, I'm still healing from it, as was mom. Don't think she could've continued without her faith. I feel that your'e ok, but nevertheless, this stirs up emotions allowing me to recognize and feel the emotions that accompany what you've gone through and still may be dealing with. Therefore, I must say with much emotion, "I'm sorry".

Continued blessings. Stay strong in Christ. Nothing will prevail against the peace God wills for you!

There is a silence in which the world cannot intrude

An ancient peace you carry in your heart and have not lost

A sense of holiness in you the thought of sin has never touched

So be it with your son.

JL ..When Jesus said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood....Many walked away saying this is a hard saying who can HEAR IT ....Jesus was the living Word made flesh and blood....Thus the only way we can ingest his flesh and blood is by Hearing his voice the living Words of God....Its actually Communion in the Spirit as his bread, his Words are spirit and life...Even in the natual bread is life.....But there is another facet to his Communion....there is a spritualy pregnancy involved in this Communion ....As his words have the ability to form a Baby Christ in us....Resulting in a heavenly birth.....Even in the natural Communion is an intimacy as his words are spirit and life....Thats how he knows us by sowing his seed in our hearts ...Which is gonna result in a Child..The H.G. That Child of Promise..The multiplication of very God...To whom the word came ( his seeds ) it made them Gods...Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen...Which is the H.G. the Children of PROMISE

.....Behold i stand at the door and knock if any man hears MY WORDS ( The bread of life the Seeds of the sower ) and opens the door i will come in and SUP ( Communion ) with him....There is a second facet to Communion and its Child birth....That GOOD SEED IS the bread of God but it also has the potential to form a baby Christ in us.....His good seed has the ability to form FAITH in us...And Faith is a spritual pregnancy.....That results in a birth of Christ in us....We are bornagain by his good seeds that is also the bread of LIFE.....Our communion is with the brdegroom Christ Jesus....Thus the woman with Child which is the H.G. which is the result of his seed COMMUNION....Remember in the O.T. the Manna was like Coriander Seed ....Jesus said your fathers in the wilderness ate manna that bread from heaven....But they all died this is that bread from heaven that if a man eats he will neva die..My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you..

Chris,

Pt. 2

The mystery of Jesus Christ is one that we will not fully understand and has been attempted to be explained over the centuries again and again. It is good to review the outcomes of these attempts in our history to be equipped to explain this mystery of Who Jesus Christ truly is in this generation. It is not a small or insignificant matter concerning the nature and Person of Jesus Christ because each error has repercussions on the believer and implications concerning the accuracy and effectiveness of Jesus' death and resurrection for the salvation of mankind.

Many people are fine to live their life in Christ without really delving into this topic. But some of us have been led to look into this area of Christology in a deeper way and we should share what we have learned with others and to defend the faith once and for all passed down to us from the apostles. Which we humbly do here on this site. in doing so, we, ourselves will learn from one another which will lead us to a truer view of our Lord and Sviour and deepen our relationship with Him, which is our true aim.

I suggest to anyone reading this post that they can go to a site like "Got Questions" or "Compelling Truth" and type in any of the terms I have mentioned here to find a much better explanation of these heresies as well as the nature and Person of Jesus Christ (Christology). I suggest, if one does wish to do such research, record your findings in a notebook so you can go back a review it against Scripture as you read the Word and to have information to give people who may be seeking to know Jesus more accurately.

Certainly, Chris, you, I and others do not engage in these discussion for the sake of argument or one-upmanship, nor for the love of debate or a sense of superiority. Rather, we wish to maintain in the Body of Christ true teaching and integrity of our faith.

All of this is done in the name and for the sake and honor of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

(Part 3)

Jesus gives the explanation in Verse 63. You see, had they stuck around and asked Jesus about it, they would have understood. But I think it is interesting how Jesus will put parables out there and nobody would understand what it is. And if you want to understand what it is, He explained it to the disciples who came to Him, not the people who listened to Him and went, "Well I don't know what He is talking about," and then they leave. It was the people who want to find out what it means.

Interesting! He could have just said this to all the multitudes before they left. "Hey, let me explain to you because we don't want to lose you. You are already in our church directory and we don't want to lose you!"

But Jesus says in John 6:63, It is the spirit that quickeneth; and the word quickeneth means make alive. It is the spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing:

Did you hear that? There is no spiritual benefit in the flesh. None! The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. They are not physical. It is spirit. It is not physical life. It is spiritual life. So, He says everything that I just told you about my flesh, and my blood, take that and change it into spiritual metaphors and you'll have what it means.

Sorry for being lengthy, but I hope this helps to give you a better understanding of what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood!

(Part 2)

Yes, there had to be blood on the door posts. But one of the requirements was that the lamb from whom the blood came, you had to eat that lamb, and eat every bit of it that night, nothing left over. You had to actually participate with the lamb whose blood is on your door post.

That's all a picture from God of symbolism, or metaphorical use if you will, about the salvation message. It is not just about believing that Jesus died for you, and shed His blood for you, but you must take Him in, spiritually. You must feed on Christ spiritually. He is the bread of life!

It is not to be taken literally as drinking His blood and eating His flesh. If we have Christ in us, we will never hunger and we will never thirst because we are fellowshipping with and feeding on the bread of life constantly. So Jesus is presenting Himself as that Lamb, Jewish symbolism!

So Jesus says no more physical miracles of feeding you with physical food. Now it's all spiritual. Now you must be satisfied with me. I am the bread of life, not the physical bread, but the spiritual bread. And from now on you must feed on me. And if you feed on me, you will live.

But they obviously still did not understand it because look at what it says in Verse 60, "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?" Notice who is saying it? His disciples! Not of the 12, but He has got many disciples now. But many of those who proclaim to be disciples of Jesus Christ, when they heard it, they said this is just too hard! What is He implying here? I don't even want to get into it. I am out of here!

I will finish this out with one more short post, I promise!!!

JLind007,

Here's what I can share with you on this. It may be a little lengthy, but please bear with me.

(Part 1)

In John 6:52-59, we see the perplexity of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. So, these people are perplexed. In Verse 52, the Jews asked how can this man give us His flesh to eat? And then in Verse 53, Jesus begins to give an explanation. Jesus says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." Gross huh? Welcome to Christianity!

In Verses 54-57, Jesus says, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

That sounds kind of deep! In fact, that's the reason and the teaching why the multitudes left. Remember, there were 15 to 20 thousand people that were fed the day before. And now these same people are listening to somebody telling them about cannibalism. (Please keep this is mind because this is very important). This multitude of people were there looking for more physical food. But Jesus is not talking about feeding them physically, but spiritually.

What does Jesus mean? He explains it to the disciples later in the chapter, but He doesn't explain it to the public. His words are spirit and they are life. It is not flesh. When He says "Eat of my flesh and drink of my blood," if you think about it from a Jewish perspective, it makes more sense.

If you remember, when Jesus was introduced to Israel, He was introduced as the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world. I want to emphasize to you from the book of Exodus that it wasn't just the blood over the door posts that saved a household from the Angel of death in order for the Angel of death to Passover.

Pt. 1

I'm with you , Chris, on this. To me, one who does not believe that Jesus is God as well as Man is someone who is espousing a false teaching and embracing another Jesus than what Paul and the Gospel writers have presented to us. Is it perilous to believe a false teaching or place one's trust in another Jesus? I would say yes. Much like we refute the "different Jesus" teaching of cults like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and New Age, I believe the same should be done to those who espouse "Oneness" theology or those who promote what has been consistently determined to be heresies concerning Jesus Christ throughout the history of the church such as: Arianism (denies the deity of Jesus); Adoptionism (that Jesus was adopted as the Son of God at His baptism or crucifixion, or resurrection but was not the eternal Son, pre-existing all creation); Sabellianism/Modalism (denial of the eternal distinctions of the Persons of the Godhead, but says that God revealed Himself in different roles at different times as the Father, Son, and Spirit-taught by present day Oneness Pentecostalism); Monophysitism (teaches that Jesus had one nature which was a combination/mixing of both His divine and human nature); Nestorianism (teaching that Jesus was two Persons in one body, one divine and the other human); Apollinariansim (teaching that Jesus had a human body but only one divine nature without a human mind or spirit)



The historical orthodox teaching is that Jesus is the Son of God having taken on humanity to have two natures in one Person. These two natures are 100% deity and 100% humanity. These two natures are not mixed together to form a third type of nature that is no longer fully divine nor fully human (monopysitism) nor is Jesus two Persons in one body (Nestorianism).

The two natures in Jesus (divine and human) are united but not mixed, therefore Jesus can operate either nature at any time, but the singular person of Jesus Christ experiences both natures at any given time.

Kat. God knew where Cain's heart was, just look at his actions attitude and final wicked act slaying His brother. Cain was the first man born spiritual of the

Adversary. He shed innocent blood also he built a kingdom that over time

Absolutely rebelled against the true God. The kingdom is called Babylon and

Historically all false religions of the world originated out of that kingdom.

Notice in revelation the term the great whore Babylon. Nimrod was also

One of these men absolutely wicked.

Dear Dwayne,

We do not know exhaustively all of the beings God has created in the spiritual realm. We just cannot definitively say that angelic beings are to look a certain way. Since you were not seeking this experience, I would most likely think that God was blessing you in a way concerning your line of work, transporting young children. So, if it was me, I would thank God and then tuck this event away into my treasure box of blessings received from Him.

Warmest wishes

Leviticus c15

There are a few references to women and "her flowers" is this a reference to her time of menstruation?

Anothers' perspective will be appreciated.

Many thanks

Dear Christian, I will pray for you today,

Heavenly Father, we come before you today in the name of Your Son Jesus, asking that You will heal and restore Christian's kidneys to full, healthy functioning. Cause these organs work properly and remove all trace of disease from them. We know that You love Christian and will do what is best for him and what will bring You glory. so, we entrust Christian and his kidneys into your loving care today and every day of his life. Amen.

Thanks, David

Another good observation!

Believing on Christ was exactly the same thing as eating and drinking Him. flesh...blood. A Figure of speech, an idiom put for the whole Person.

Idiom: A speech form or an expression of a given language that is peculiar to itself grammatically or cannot be understood from the individual meanings of its elements, as in keep tabs on

Even where eating is used of the devouring of enemies, it is the enjoyment of in Ecc. 5:19; 6:2; for "riches" cannot be eaten; and the Talmud actually speaks of eating (i.e. enjoying) "the years of Messiah", and instead of finding any difficulty in the figure

they said that the days of Hezekiah were so good that "Messiah will come no more to Israel; for they have already devoured Him in the days of Hezekiah".victory that is included.

Good Morning Ronald,

Thanks for your reply. I taught Kindergarten and, yes, the students loved me, not because we addressed very profound things, since kindergarten is about laying the foundation for the basics, but because I loved each of them and drew out of them the known skills and potential that God placed within them to learn and grow. Many of the things learned in Kindergarten was a matter of taking something concrete and progressing to a more abstract level, which stretches the minds and capabilities of 5-6 year olds.

I so enjoyed being with my students everyday, watching them play and interact with their friends, working with each one individually on skills they needed to practice and receive further re-instruction, and teaching them as a class. We sang, danced, practiced counting to 100, chanted the alphabet each day. We learned to read words and simple stories, to write sounds, then words, then sentences. We learned basic number sense and also adding and subtracting, beginning geometry. We learned science principles and practices. We learned social skills and so much more that we packed into a day. The students were eager to learn and we got excited together over the simplest accomplishments that most people take for granted because our adult brains do not even have to think about these ideas or actions because it has become automatic to us.

My calling as a teacher was a delight to me and I was so blessed. One thing the is humorous is my husband and I sitting down with a stack of the children's writing to decipher what each was trying to say. This was a challenge. For instance: "fofajli" was "Fourth of July". We discovered that when we examined the picture and noticed fireworks. Pretty cute!

I look forward to our next discussion.

Jesus was/is a Teacher,,,Of the 90 times Jesus was addressed directly in the gospels, 60 times he was called Teacher.

This was the word the multitudes used.

This was how the disciples referred to him, e.g The Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5.

Having said that, Jesus/Teacher was still teaching right up until his death on the cross, when He said Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani for he was quoting scripture written in the book of Psalms which was written 1000 yrs before His death, reminding the World, past present, and future that this/His death was predicted 1000 yrs ago. Powerful, powerful, stuff