Revelation Chapter 12 Discussion Page 3

Greetings Carleton,

I believe your comment was removed because it was off topic, and distracting to the initial question Carla had asked.

I, however, beared with you and answered your questions regarding my foundation (the Rock & Chief Cornerstone Jesus Christ), & His Church built on that Rock and who what where when and why she is.

It appears you no longer have any comments or questions on that subject.

It also appears you wish to avoid the questions I asked you concerning; a. How you were saved, & b. Unto what you were baptized? (You don't have to go into detail)

i have no problem answering those questions and sharing a condensed version of my testimony (it's a long story).

But to respect the order & grace (if there be any) of the conversation, would you mind answering my questions first?

I'm not here to bring contention or strife or debate with anyone (as my Master Jesus never debated, only said, he that hath an ear let him hear), but rather because, though I don't know you, I kove you with the love of Christ and care for your soul not wanting any to perish.

I pray that you can receive this, in Jesus name.

*"true Church of God"

Hello Andrew, it appears that my comment was removed. Likely for asking for your experience first. Must be part of the rules, I am uncertain. My thoughts are not to put too much into tongues as a sign of conversion rather than a new life where there are groanings that come from within reaching out for even clearer communication with the Holy Ghost. I also wonder as you have mentioned the Harlot several times as what is not the Church, why not describe the true Xhurxh of God. I am sorry if my original post was deemed too harsh or sarcastic or personal. The more we volunteer our experiences the more we can understand each other. If you like, please share more in this way.

Carleton

Greetings in Jesus' name, Carleton.

The bible says:

1 Corinthians 3:11

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

So, my foundation is not a "she" or "her", but a He; verily the Lord Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:7-9

King James Version

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

And upon that rock, Jesus built His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Church is not the rock.

She is built on that rock, which is Christ.

Who is she you ask?

1 Peter 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Amen.

She's a worldwide body of disciples baptized in Jesus' name (not titles F, S, & HG) for the remission of their sins (& not as an "outward showing of an inward change" or "public profession of faith"),

& filled with His Holy Spirit walking in his commandments continuing in His word ( John 8:31-32).

Where is she you ask?

John 11:52

And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

She's scattered abroad throughout all the world,& doesn't exist in buildings built by men with fancy titles & big screens and p.a. systems, but in eachother's houses & in the streets confessing Christ to others (Roman's 10:9) for this is how Christians SHALL be saved.

Praise the Lord!

Now let me ask you;

How were you saved & unto what were you baptized?

P.S.

And yes:

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This verse is speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Greetings in Jesus' name, Carla.

Great question!

Revelation 12:1

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Genesis 37:9-10

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

From this passage of Scripture speaking of Joseph and the dream he was given; we can see that the woman with the 12 stars and the sun and the moon referenced in Revelation 12 is Israel.

The dragon is obviously that old serpent our defeated foe (satan).

And the water represents nations or people that will attack Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble/the great tribulation, but she will flee to the valley in the mountains prophesied in Zechariah 14 (I believe) that God hath prepared for her.

Later John writes about MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS (the roman catholic church) that sits upon many waters. We can see that the roman emperor (the pope) has his "churches" all over the world in just about every nation (many waters).

This is why Christians must come out from her and her "protestant" daughters to be saved ( Rev 18:4).

I hope this helps you Carla.

Be well in Jesus' name,

Andrew

Revelations Chapter 12 1:17, what Child Is this about Jesus? If so, why does Revelations state that A Woman was about to give birth and the dragon let a flood out of it's mouth to wash the woman away. The earth took the flood away. I am confused, are they refering to Jesus?

Thank You,

God Bless,

Carla Zgabay

It is time to look for only one thing and thus righteousness. May God help me to attain righteousness.The devil knows he have a limited time and having great wrath to decieve the inhabitants of the earth.

Lets continual our wait on the lord while he is (zephaniah ) god has a determinaion to gather all the nations unto his holy assembly to pour out on them his indination of fierce anger of jealousy

Yup! They came here to pratice their free & good worship to their God by killing my people-" INDIANS"who was here with no need for you. Thanks for shewing us the way to the Cross.

Sandra,

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:4

Which law spells out forgiveness? Had I a choice to only break one of the ten in my lifetime, no matter which I choose, forgiveness isn't there. Righteousness by the law was fulfilled by only one person, the Lord Jesus. That righteousness is what is imputed to those who believe, therefore, those who believe are under no obligation to do, what only Jesus did. However, once the love of God is received it shows in the life of a believer, perhaps not always perfectly, but it grows in their earthly lifetime.

It is the pride of the flesh to think that before the law a person lacks nothing. Matthew 19:30

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24

"To demonstrate our love for God and His Son, Jesus Christ, is to conduct our lives in harmony with the Ten Commandments." It is pride that attaches eternal life to the letter of the law. "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." 1John 1:17 The law is in the sphere of the work of the Holy Spirit, John 16:8, "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment". Believers testify of Christ's, grace and truth. I have no doubt the Holy Spirit within a believer will not lead them to violate any of the ten commandments, because the righteousness of Christ exceeds the letter of the law.

Sandra, Are all your sins forgiven?

Thank you Sandra for your detailed explanation of your understanding of the Law & the Book of Ordinances. I do agree with much of what you've written. However, still the Scripture, Romans 8:1-4 niggles at us, to which you've not referred to directly.

How do you reconcile that Scripture with what you believe? In other words, what is Paul referring to here in Romans 8: the Law contained in the Commandments, or the Book of Ordinances, or both?

Chris please let me continue ... and sacrificial laws contained in the book that Moses wrote on parchment and placed beside the Ark of the Covenant. Just as the parchment was perishable--would eventually disintegrate--so it was with the laws of sacrifice. Upon Christ's death on the cross, the curtain in the temple, between the Holy Place and Most Holy Place, was torn in two, from top to bottom, by God's own hands, indicating that the real sacrifice of the Lamb of God, which the daily temple sacrifice symbolized, had paid the ultimate sacrifice to atone for our sins. There was no more need for sacrifice. We have been redeemed by Jesus' mercy and grace, not by the "shadows of things to come". All the symbols of the sacrificial laws had been fulfilled, therefore, in symbolic terms, the sacrificial laws were "nailed to the cross". The cross WAS the altar upon which Jesus Christ, the Messiah, was sacrificed for our sake.

The entire Old Testament tells of our fall and of God's plan of redemption. The entire New Testament tells of Christ's sacrifice for our sins and His plan to return, gather His faithful ones, put an end to sin, and recreate the earth as it was before sin entered. Sin, death, illness, and dying will be no more.

The stone tablets containing the 10 Commandments are the immutable, permanent, unchanging will and character of God.

The stone tablets (Ten Commandments) were written by the Creator Himself with His own finger. The Ten Commandments represent God's character. Also, the first 4 commandments reveal our obligation to God the Creator ("Love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, and mind"); and the last 6 commandments reveal our obligation to our fellow man ("Love your neighbor as yourself"), as outlined by Jesus Christ. The Ten Commandments, being a revelation of God's character, are unchanging and permanent. To demonstrate our love for God and His Son, Jesus Christ, is to conduct our lives in harmony with the Ten Commandments.

The stone tablets were placed inside the ark, because the ark represented the living presence of God among the people, and the Ten Commandments are His character.

The book of ordinances that was written on parchment by Moses were the laws and ceremonies connected with the blood sacrifices, which were offered as atonement for sin. The sacrifices, and the ceremonies and laws connected with them were symbolic of--pointed forward to--the Messiah, Jesus Christ, who was the Lamb of God--the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. The entire temple and its divisions represented the coming Messiah. The altar of sacrifice represented His death; the laver represented the Water of Life (Christ) and the washing away of sins; the shewbread represented Christ, who is the Bread of Life; the seven candlesticks represented Christ, who is the Light of the World; and the Most Holy Place represented the presence of God the Father, who was reflected by Christ ("If you have seen me, you have seen the Father").

When Christ began His ministry,He resisted Satan's temptations in the wilderness immediately after His baptism, was crucified on Friday, rose from the dead on Sunday morning, and shortly thereafter ascended to His Father with the promise to return and redeem His faithful followers, He fulfilled all of the symbolism contained in the ordinances, special sabbaths,

How does this chapter relate to events of now in 2020-2021?

This is a wonderful song based on Revelation 12:10b-12 NLT:



Revelation 12:10b-12 (NLT) - Bible Song | It Has Come at Last

It is by Amy Treadwell Toy and her husband Brandon Toy.

Sandra, I do agree with what you've said about the 'law of commandments contained in ordinances', that the reference here is not to the Ten Commandments but to those other laws pertaining to sacrifices, new moons, sabbaths, etc., but not just these only, but all the Law was fully met by Jesus & then abrogated at the Cross.

"The Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good", but its usefulness, effectiveness & applicability became redundant at the Cross. For sin, taking its authority from the commandment, 'slew' Paul, because that was all the Law could do. What Paul hoped that the Law would give him life, instead only brought him death. So he said that "with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Was Paul saying that he was still going back to God's Laws, obeying in them in his mind & allowing his flesh to sin? No. In the very next verses he says in Romans 8:1-4: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The Law of sin & death (the Ten Commandments & not just the Law contained in Ordinances, but the whole) which slew him, he now rejected, but rather a new Law of the Spirit had taken its place & brought him freedom & power to fulfil the righteousness of the Law.

And Galatians 3:19, as you quoted, doesn't refer to the Ordinances but to the Law - indeed that whole Chapter 3 is devoted to pointing the believers from depending on the 'works of the Law' to the application of faith through the Spirit.

Some churches preach to this day that Jesus abolished the Ten Commandments when He died on the cross. They proclaim this assumption by using Ephesians 2:15 as their basis of evidence, which says. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;..." The obvious truth here is, that the verse states that it was the Commandments contained in ORDINANCES that was abolished at the cross. Not the Ten Commandments contained in stone. The passage in Colossians 2:14-17 has also been used to preach the Commandments abolished. But if you read it you will find it was, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances", again that is mentioned in that passage. According to the Word of God, these ordinances were "added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made" ( Galatians 3:19) It's rather clear to see here that the "commandments contained in ordinances" were added by Moses for a specific reason. If we read the passage again we see it also states these ordinances were only added TILL the seed should come. And who was this seed according to Scripture? Galatians 3:16 boldly proclaims, "thy seed, which is Christ."

The commandments contained in ordinances were added by Moses thousands of years ago as a way to prepare the people for the FIRST arrival of Messiah. They showed their faith in the coming Messiah by keeping the ordinances on a regular basis. When Jesus died on the cross, the ordinances were no longer needed because he fulfilled them by all He did while visiting us as Messiah. The "ordinances" were a series holy days, new moons, and Sabbath days that were to be considered a "shadow of things to come." The word "ordinance" is NOT the same as the word "commandment." where in the Ten Commandments does it speak of "meat and drink?" Nowhere do we find such statements in the Law of God.

So which one is it God the father or christ you are confusing people mr. Trinitarian

Thanks Chris, That shines more light to that phrase that I never fully taken in.

What a mighty Scripture portion you've shared. Thank you Steven. And people miss that little phrase tucked away: "which are a shadow of things to come". The "body" might cast a shadow, but the "shadow" becomes insignificant when the body is present. Our focus must be on the "body" to which the things in the shadow point to.

Colossians 2:13-17. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Xaviar- In this warfare the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will be the great point at issue, for in the Sabbath commandment the Great lawgiver identifies himself as Creator of heavens and earth.

Reasons For Keeping The Sabbath

Ex 31: 13 Speak thou unto the children of Israel, saying, verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.

Ezek 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths: and they shall be a sign between me and you,That ye may know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Ezek 20:20 And hallow my Sabbaths: and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your GOD. God's Holy law is as unchangeable as his throne, and is from everlasting to everlasting,

It may not matter to some what day you keep Holy. But it matters to God! Their has only been one day sanctified Blessed and hallowed by God it is Saturday.The man of sin, it is declared in Daniel, "shall think to change times and laws,"

Rev 14:8 And their followed another angel saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city ,

because she made all nations drink of the wine of the of wrath of her fornication. The fourth commandment says REMEMBER the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy. No one can change the Law of God but God himself. For God has said their is no shadow of turning within me . I am the Lord Thy God I Change Not. Blessings.

Because we focus on Sunday and Sabbath and concentrate around Sunday and Sabbath only. We did not understand anything.

We have search the scripture thinking that in them we have eternal life ( John 5: 39) but we did not understand, see and know God and God's ways.

It does not Matter if anyone worship on Sabbath or Sunday, but if one can faithfully follow the laws and words of God in the Bible can control himself to be right with God and later when dead can have eternal life. He or she will keep every days (1 to 7) holy and be right with God. This will be the true meaning of Sabbath and the Commandment and Sunday.

I apologize for being stern but what the majority of the church/denominations teach regarding sunday and the commandments dont add up compared to scripture and i dont understand why

Why do all churches and perishoners keep sunday holy when the bible clearly commands that we keep Saturday holy i know its man made tradition any Gregorian calendar shows sunday is the first day of the week( not the seventh) we are commanded by GOD through the bible to keep the 7th day Saturday Sabbath holy not sunday we can thank the roman Catholic church for this tradition we are all supposed to be in protest against her i want you to show me were we are commanded in the bible to keep the venerable day of the sun holy as imperor constatine did and made it law its mans law and his tradition please give me scripture to back up sunday sacredness and commanded observance of it

Heavenly Father, I pray that you will cover this problem with your loving hand. While my mind is confused and struggles to find the right path, I know that you can heal any situation. Bring your peace and hope to my life. Hold me close to you so that my heart and mind may be kept safe. I pray that you will use the power of your truth to transform any darkness into your love and light. You are my fortress and my place of refuge. In times of difficulties, I turn to you for protection from harm. Thank you for protecting me and directing me, by the Holy Spirit as I seek to be a citizen in this country.

I give you praise. Hallelujah. Amen.

I give you my entire heart, soul and being. All of the training, studying and skills are yours. Each work that I do and the money I earn is done in your honor. I lay all of my hopes and aspirations at your feet. I pray that you will bless my work and find favor in all that I do. When I meet new challenges in my work, I pray that you will help me to overcome them and excel in my job. Please guide me throughout the day so that I may walk in your path in all that I do.

Thank you for your favor and ordering my steps. Amen.

I was thinking of the context in which it speaks of the tail of the Dragon sweeping a third of the stars from the sky and the dragon standing over the woman about to give birth hoping to devour her child. I think of all the babies that were killed around the time of Christ's birth and attempts by King Herod to kill the Christ child. And I'm wondering if that was 1/3 of the male children of Jews at the time.

I love you all I am here if you would love to pray ever. Grace is blessing you abundantly. We are healed haliluyah...... Pray for Dean to be filled up with the Holy Ghost too. Hugs N Loves

Comments by Alex on why Jesus always refered to himself as the SON OF MAN. Is about a Child that is gonna be born in US sinners. Thats y Zech. refers to him as our 1st born ,our only Son ,Zech. says they shall look on me whom me whom they have pierced and be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born his only Son. Thats y the new birth is so important ,we are gonna have a baby, a baby Christ The Son of MAN, Which is fruit unto GOD, When he was on the Cross they pierced Him and out came the blood and the water impling a birth of Christ in us, our 1st born ,our only son which is multiplication when a seed dies it multiplies. Thus our 1st born ,our only son .When Issac was offered up thats when the PROMISE was made to Father Abraham about multiplication . When they pierced Jesus they knew he was dead, THATS WHEN HE WAS OFFERED UP Thats when the blood and water came out impling a birth of Christ in US our 1st born our only son, Multiplication Thus he is truly the Son of Man, Mankinds fruit unto God. They shall mourn for him as their 1st born their only son .Whosoever receives one such child in my name receives ME, our Child is the H.G. that which is BORN BORN of the spirit is spriit Whosoever receives one such child in my name receives ME. A BIRTH IMPLIES A CHILD WHICH IS THE H.G. TH SON OF MAN resulting from the GOOD SEED ,being bornagain of an incorruptible seed etc i.e a SPRITUAL Child that is gonna be born in US. 27 times in the O.T. the prophets saw the world in travail and birth pains impling our 1st born our only son in the SPRITUAL REALM Thats y he always refers to himself as THE SON OF MAN, There is a baby Christ in our future ,there has to be multiplication simply b/c of his death thus we are gona birth a spritual Child, you will know them by their fruits which is the H.G TH SON OF MAN. They shall look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as one who is in bitterness for 1st born ,his only son, No Wonder he calls himself the Son of Man