Genesis Chapter 1 Discussion Page 146

@Just Me, Cloning and Evolution are not the same thing. "Creation" and evolution are not the same thing. Evolution does not try to explain the origin of life, only how it changes over long periods of time. Your statement "for evolution in the terms you use it. To be true, it would still need to be developing its cycles; i.e. monkeys into half man half monkey and all the stages of evolution. I haven't been able to locate any, have you?" .. This statement shows that you don't know the basic principles of evolution. The evidence for evolution is abundant in the natural world and in the fossil record.

Wow! Someone hit the nail on the proverbial head! Nice work Kelly. Although, in the second earth and heaven age things are quite different than they were in the first age.

God created this age (2nd) for all to be born innocent through woman. That way we can choose for ourselves to either; Love God or Follow Satan.

I'm not judging now, but from the look of things, their are a lot of people falling in line with the second part?

Its no surprise really. Those from Cain's (His father being Satan himself) seed are still milling around trying to remove God from every crevice of society.

I find it ironic although hypocritical that our courts will remove the "Ten Commandments" from our court rooms, but still use the "Holy Bible" to swear upon (which by the way is contrary to what God has instructed us to do, but go figure?)when taking the stand in that same building?

The great famine of the end times is not for food, but for the "Word of God". From the look of things, the famine has reached epic proportions.

All the Best~

The created heavens and earth in Genesis 1:1 became without form and void as mentioned in vs 2. Subsequent to that God re-established the heavens and earth that were originally created. We now live in the "2nd Heavens and Earth". The 3rd and final (where paradise is re-established) is yet to come.

Trying to describe Heaven from Earth is futile. It is a "Dimensional" issue. When Christ returned/appeared to his disciples on Pentecost, he walked with them,he talked with them, he even ate with them. But, he was not bound by the same structures. He walked through the walls, not the doors. He faded from their sight. Why? He is in another "Dimension".

I know this is a reach for many, but Christ told us we would not have the knowledge to know those things that are of Heaven.

If you think about it, there is so much we can't understand about the Earth we live on. How can we even fathom that which is of Heaven? Hence our faith through our knowledge of God's letter to us.

Just a note to the "Evolutionaries", for "evolution" in the terms you use it. To be true, it would still need to be developing its cycles; i.e. monkeys into half man half monkey and all the stages of evolution. I haven't been able to locate any, have you?

I do subscribe to the philosophy that we "Evolve" as a society in culture and ideas, but not in the form of creation. Although there are plenty of people manipulating genetics to increase their Grant Funding (Always Follow the Money). They still haven't produced anything, well anything that is provable. I can say i created a sheep too. I created a cloned sheep,I think I'll call her daisy. See it's easy.

All the Best~

God is unconditional love. If we were completely evolved collectively, we would be seeing the God in each other (man and woman were made in Gods image), rather than making each other right and wrong on this webpage. Evolution does not have to mean humans came from monkeys. That is Darwanism. Gods intention for man is to evolve to the point of realizing the fullness of his love for each and every human. How do you know when you have reached that point????? Do you judge others? Do your thoughts create separation or do they unify you with the "others" in your life? Follow the meanings of the word "God" and "good" to their essence and you will see it means "to unify." If you want to know God, see the judgments you have in others as your own. God created everything. You, me, my dog, your cat, the heavens, and the earth . . . and all between it. Read The Bible will an open heart and an open mind . . . and with that . . . make your own choices for YOU. Not for others. There is my business, your business, and Gods business. Guess who's business it is to decide what is right or wrong for you? Not mine. That is between you and God. To use Gods word to make others wrong does not even feel "good". The moment I do this, I lose my connection to "God" and create separation. I choose to see others as a child of God, regardless if I see the world the same as them or not. I love God. I am grateful for my life and all that was created in the seven days of creation in Genesis 1. Without it, I would not be.

I want to know whether heaven in Verse 1 is the same as Heaven in Verses 8 and 9?

Dave, if you read a little closer you will see that the birds fly in heaven everyday. So sending a man a little further up in to heaven is no big deal. In facts if you study the Bible you will find out that there are multiple heavens mentioned.

2 Chronicles 2:6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

You see God is not waiting in outer space for men to reach Him, He has already come down to men.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

He came to give you life if you will receive it.

Mark 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

It comes by faith when you turn from your pride and turn to God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Again, Ryan, you have a choice to make. You either believe God's Holy Word, which will help you understand your science, as well as, the path to salvation, or you can serve man's version of science that you say is still being evolved. You can't have it both ways. It is either or, period.

@ Dave . . . Yes, and no. It is a bit of a dichotemy but here is the answer. . . Heaven is not a place, it is a state of being that is characterized throughout the bible and on the seventh day as "rest". It is when the heart opens and the mind ceases to judge. It is stated many times that the kingdom of God (heaven) is within. We must look deep within ourselves to feel God and all of Gods attributes . . . oneness, love, perfection, connection, and wholeness. Our outer world is only a reflection of that which is within. Example - You have fear and anger, you will see an anger and unsafe world. You feel love and peace, the world will reflect that to you. Even the physical world is only a reflection of our different levels of being. They are physical, instinctual, emotional, mental, abstract, unlimited, and spiritual. Notice that if you were placed in outer space NOW . . . just you all alone, there would be no problems, no judgement, no other to discuss right and wrong with. Just you and your own thoughts. Sooner or later, you would realize even those are not real and you may melt into a state of complete peace and love. This brings us back to the description of heaven on the seven days. When you finally, let go of your attachment beyond your mind, you would just "rest" in the knowing that it is all okay . . . . and very beautiful . . . without the thoughts. Then the heart opens and you feel God, or shall we say, unconditional love. They are the same. And yes, all light comes from the sun . . . ultimately. God made that, too. Isn't it amazing?????

Without error? Where do you get that from? Those responsible for translating the Manuscripts did so with a disclaimer. The word "Easter" appears in the New Testament, but it is a mistranslation. The word pascha pas'-khah is "Passover". "Easter" is actually a pagan Goddess (Istar) whom they preyed for fertility and had sexual orgies in the name of, their symbols include; bunnies, rolling of eggs. So I'd say this was a huge error and sadly they still allow this nonsense in the churches today, OK "So Called" churches?

That being said, is this "God's" error. No,not even close. But as with everything God gives us a way out of these errors. He gave us all "minds" and we have the ability to use them, if we choose?

I do not take anyone at their word, I check it out for myself. In this day and age the tools available make it simple to check out the different languages.

As for sciences contradicting the Word of God? Ryan, you are way off the mark. I'd suggest you start reading for yourself and not listening to others who make things up; "And God set them (stars) in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth" That's the purpose of stars?" Where did you find this? If you're reading the NIV or some other traditions of men book. I now know why you are confused. The King James Bible (KJB) is the only Word of God that allows us to completely understand what it is God wants for us and what we are suppose to do for him. Taking the KJB back to the manuscripts, word for word, will allow you to decern the true meaning of God's letter to us.

God's word not only supports science, science supports God's word, they are interchangable. After all, he did create "ALL THINGS".

However, if you do not subscribe to these beliefs? That's OK, we can still be friends.

All the Best~

@JD. I thank you for your insight.

So the lights of earth are in the realm of heaven? I would assume that this is the Sun and moon and stars? This is one area that confuses me, because there has been a man on the moon already. Was he the first live person to walk in heaven? The Russians had before that sent a man into orbit and before that had already sent a dog and 2 monkeys into space. According to the text, they may have made it to heaven depending on the distance of firmament between earth and moon.

Robert, I see no one has answered your question. No, there are not many Bibles, God wrote only one book for us. Many will tell you that you have to read the original languages to get that one book. The truth is God has preserved it through the years and it is available in English in the King James Bible. The translation of 1611 is without error and is indeed the pure words of God.

Go here if you have doubts about the KJB. Link

@felis. Evolution does not prove or disprove the existence of God. If it conflicts with what you believe then that's your struggle. I find it interesting that you say "do you take God at his word" when in fact you are taking man at his word. You are believing the words of man supposedly written on behalf of God. Evolution and God can coexist quite nicely if you don't take a literal interpretation of the bible.

@anon. Science does not attempt to prove or disprove the existence of God. It seeks truth in nature through what can be observed. Evolution is NOT a religion. Where are you getting your information? I suggest you reseearch what it means to be a "scientific theory" Evolution is a scientifically accepted theory. The theory isn't complete and it will "evolve" as more evidence is discovered just as all scientific theories are subject to modification. You say a big cloud of gas exploded and all of a sudden the planets existed. First, this is not evolution. Second, this is NOT at all what science claims in the big bang which what I assume you are referring to. You've created your own interpretation and it's factually incorrect.

chapter 1, verse 21 says sea creatures. You have whales. why?

Ryan, I agree people have misunderstood the truth in the text and kill in the name of God. . . . and yes, ignorance is a very popular. And . . . Making others wrong because they are unaware of what they are doing, still creates separation and duality. This is why Jesus said, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." To see through the eyes of God is to love others unconditionally. It only takes one person to practice this, not the entire world. The problem is not with the Bible or science, it is with the mind . . . . that creates what is right and wrong. Science is just the study of what is. The bible is just an explanation of life on many levels. They are perfect the way they are. . . . until someone decides they are not okay..... :)

how is it a major problem? the Bible doesn't teach us to be ignorant. and it doesn't reject science or reasoning, only the fake science or reasoning. like how all of a sudden a big cloud of gas exploded and all of a sudden the planets existed. it doesn't justify war, either. God doesn't like man to fight, but sometimes it's necessary, because God wants to punish those people. and what you said, "it fosters fear of education and clouds reason" Fear of education? where did that come from? and what fear of education is it? and yes, the Bible has been scientifically proven more than once. but i do believe your very last statement. mass is mostly empty space... but seriously, EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION!!! NOT A FACT!!! give me one thing that proves evolution is true. because either you believe in a god, or believe in evolution. take your pick.

Ryan,the issue is there is no middle ground to believe in evolution and at the same time believe there is a God in heaven.when you believe in evolution and science is totally the deniel of the existence of God,but the bible is the real truth and accurate historical account. the problem is do you take God at his words or you mistrust him by trying to prove what he says.

@JD. I enjoyed your explanation, well thought out and very interesting. However my problem lies with the people who preach the bible as a literal truth and accurate historical account. This is in my opinion is a major problem. It creates an environment of ignorance and causes people to reject science and reason. Religious fundamentalism is a large part of what has retarded our species from progress. It breeds intolerance and justifies war in the name of God.
It fosters fear of education and clouds reason.
What you've given me is a metaphysical interpretation of creation which isn't literal at all or provable in any way. You said all mass is empty space..that's not true. Mass is mostly empty space.

The Bible is both literal and a multi- layered truth but the layers are deeper and more essential than what is being taught by the masses. The following example will explain . . . .
Genesis 1 explains the creation of the universe but everything we see comes to exist from the unseen. Consider yourself. . . . A body is made up of a collection of organs, which is made of a bundle of molecules, which is bonded atoms, and those atoms are made of 99.99% space with a few floating subatomic particles. This is not only true of you, but all of creation. All mass is really empty space. If you look at a diagram of an atom it looks exactly the same as a floating earth (nucleus of atom) and heavens (space around it. This also is a reflection our solar system. It all follows the same mystical design. In other words . . . God made a blueprint and it is well explained in Genesis 1. Yes, it is the earth, the animals, water, dry land, and much more. But if that is all that is being seen in the seven days of creation, Wow!!!!! you are missing 99.99 % of the truth! Faith is to believe what is not seen. Hmmmm, that is the same as seeing through the outer surface of the common teachings. There is a reason why the Bible is written in parables and why a person that has a profound and direct experience with God cannot put it into words. So, here is the essential truth of Genesis 1 of the Bible . . . . . . . Nature is a reflection of God and man and women are made in the image of God. Therefor, the seven layers made through seven days in the creation story, are a reflection of man. When we open our eyes to the truth, we see ourselves string right back at ourselves. The physical and tangible world is a reflection of us. It is a commonly accepted truth that man is actually mind, body, and spirit. Well, true . . . and again, there are many more layers than that. The seven days are the seven attributes of Man. . . The seven days are a reflection of you and me. Here are the details and the hidden truth behind the Seven Days of Creation in Genesis 1 -
Day 1 = Spirit = Heaven and Earth are created which represent spirit (heavens) and physical body (earth). This is how a baby is born. You, as a tiny possibility existed as a descendent from heaven or spirit and then boom (through the combining of two opposite forces . . . male and female) you became a physical (although tiny) piece of matter. This is the beginning of the physical body. . . . the creation of the first day of Genesis.
Day 2 - Instincts - the water is separated from itself and there is space between the two. This is the creation of instinct. The most common of instinctual needs is sexuality. That is why there are two sides, just like a magnet. . . . Sex is a magnetic pull of opposites.
Day 3 - Emotions - There is a distinction of dry land and water. The seas are related to "emotion" and are the female aspect of every human, regardless of gender.
Day 4 - Mental capabilities. The sky with clouds is like our mind with thoughts. This is why there is a clear sky and chaotic storms of lightning and thunder. The mind is the same. Sometimes clear and sometimes it creates a personal storm of pain and confusion where you cannot see the light.
Day 5 - higher mind - abstract mind. Possibilities, creativity, divine inspiration. Well, lets just say Albert Einstein. That should explain it.
Day 6 - Unlimited Possibilities - the true nature of you and me. spaciousness . . . this is reflected in the attributes of the higher layers of the atmosphere and space. This is why so much is being said about meditation and clearing the mind these days. Notice that it is one day or step from the seventh day . . .which is . . . . the return to . . .
Day 7 - spirit - the highest aspect of being of man. It is said that the spirit lives forever while the body comes and goes. True, because you are actually spirit, not a body. Notice that spirit was the heavens in day 1 and is characterized by rest when God rested in the seventh day.
In the seven days, all aspects of man are explained and defined. Nature is the reflection of man and man is made in Gods image. Therefor, Nature is God smiling right back at you with a silly grin on his face . . . . just waiting for us all to see this deeper truth, thus understanding where we came from and how wonderful we are. The glimpse of this becomes experience when an adult sees a new born child in all its wonder and joy. The heart opens and mystery of life is revealed through heart felt perception, not through thought. It cannot be put into words because the truth (God, love, the moment, spaciousness, your true nature) cannot be explained. It must be experienced personally. This is why it written so many times to go within. Jesus said it often. He also said receive the Holy Spirit. Notice spirit is the seventh aspect of your being, mush higher than the mind. Most Bible readers receive the message and absorb it with the mind - the fourth aspect of being. This is why there is so much discussion of the teachings of the Bible. And yet, this way of understanding will never give people what they really are seeking because the minds job is to classify and separate. The attributes of God are oneness, perfection, and wholeness. The mind cannot even fathom this, because it is by its very nature dualistic. It creates right and wrong and identifies itself with that which is seen . . . the physical world. You want to know the truth in the Bible???? Have faith, but not the word "faith" or what everybody says faith is. Open your heart. Open your mind. Forget everything you have ever been taught and surrender to the unknown and the unseen. Go deep within and ask for guidance. Then the mystery of life begins. the you will see what others do not. And when you do read the Bible, you will see the deeper meaning than what churches have been taught for centuries. Then you will know your true eseence. Then you will know God. Enjoy the journey. And yes, I have written a book on all of this. There is much more to it than the simple description offered here. It just depends on how far down the rabbit hole you will allow yourself to go. Genesis One: The First True Inspiration for Humanity.

Joe, no it doesn't. Science reaches conclusions from observation,repeatable results from experimentation and emprical evidence. The literal interpretation of the bible requires one to believe in things that are factually untrue. I don't think you have a grasp on what science is.
For example...the bible says the Earth is fixed and unmoving..Science has discovered otherwise.
The bible claims a man lived in the belly of a whale...science has clearly proven otherwise.

Ryan. It takes more faith to believe in the so called science books, than it does to believe the literal truth in the Holy Word of God.

I just don't understand how people can believe the bible as a "LITERAL" truth and historical account when so much of what we know as fact in science disproves it. I'm not saying that God doesn't exist. I'm saying the bible is not the literal truth as many "young earth creationists" claim.

The book is beautiful and yes contains no real answers, but i do not read it for this. I believe in a god, in something that created this world in all of its magnificence. I don't think human beings are ever meant to have hard concrete answers to all of life, and the bible certainly doesn't answer any of them. Does that mean it is useless or that religion is stupid because it cannot answer all of your questions or does not mix well with science? No. If The creator put all of these enigmas & philosophical questions into his universe (even "how did god exist before existence", then that simply proves that God exists. God knows the mind of man as he created it. What better could a creator do for a species he put upon the earth to have free will and intellect, then to give them an eternal puzzle to solve. He simply made the world interesting for us in my opinion. look at the debates and differing view points in this genesis thread as proof. Let us eternally not solve these philosophical questions, so that life stays mysterious and fun. Seeking these answers is what life is all about. If you knew them, how fast would we get bored as an intelligent species? As to the bible, it is a testament to our questing natures and the need to know the world around us. We wanted a connection to the supreme being and out of that evolves a bible. However, the bible is written by man and subject to all of its errors. Whether the bible came through the spirit, or a collection of myths over time to explain our world and how we feel about our creator, who is to say? What does it matter? One worships a creator, not the word of god as spoken through man. Let it be a guidebook on how to be a good person, how to love, how to learn lessons from our ancestors, but I wouldn't read it with the intent to prove or disprove it, or use it as a bone of contention between differing religious view points. Science cannot give is all of our concrete answers. The bible cannot give us to them either. God alone is the only one who can know, or will ever know, and we are presumptuous beings to think we can prove life through science or religious fervor. Science will keeping finding the smallest point of life, and there will always be one smaller ever out of reach. And if you found the smallest atomic form of life would it explain to you how it got there? :)
I write this to those who want to deny god by using the bible as proof that god does not exist because it does not mesh with science or because their priest told them to have faith instead of answering their philosophical questions. I was this little person once upon a time in forced Sunday school CCD classes. I thought I was hot stuff for coming up with these questions. I scoffed at them for their faith. Time and life have a way of teaching you about your heart, if you learn to keep it open and less offensive to another's faith. I believe Jesus teaches this you know, so there is more worth in learning how to be a good person from the bible then learning that god fiddled around with my evolution first before he got it right. One day for god could have been billions of years of evolution for us. Maybe he even evolved us this way on purpose so that our inquisitive minds would have something more to interest us in ourselves. :)

The Bible speaks partial to no truth, After it was rewritten thousands of times how can we rely on it. We as people must find the REAL truth. Not something that is given to us by humans, then changed around. The Quran is the only Holy book that has remained the same, never re-written, never altered. It also gives you all the answers of life and logic. The bible and the church does not do any of this. It gives no explanation to the hardest questions and many times when I asked they were all left unanswered, not a single preacher could answer any of it! And whats worse they themselves where baffeled. How can we worship or believe that a man is the son of God? God is above all blasphemy. All God must say is "be" and anything can be. There is no truth to the trinity, it was written as a footnote by a roman priest in a bible then later insterted in the bible. Many times within the Bible (old testament) Jesus says to worship the one and only God. Now many people worship Jesus. What a sad place humans have come to. Jesus himself neels down to pray for God, if he was the son of God why would he need to pray? Nothing about christianity makes sense or logic! The truth has been twisted.

I think the darkness was a thing, not a living being. I don't know why darkness is the absence of creation though. Why black? Seems like that would need to be created/invented too.

i love reading God's Word, i might not understand it all yet but i know it's all true his ways are past finding out. He made all these things for our enjoyment!! We were made for a purpose, to WORSHIP HiM . We are worshippers by nature,will you worship the Creator or creation?

who and again I say who was the darkness in Genesis 1:2. Can you help me with this.

yes! that's true all what the scripture have said it's true because the book was written through the inspiration of holy spirit.so no doubt.