Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

Saul of Tarsus was indeed a very gifted man full of zeal " but without knowledge" when he was converted he was still full of zeal but now with knowledge and a proper understanding of the scriptures which his knowledge of all those languages did not give him.

Your right it does not specifically say that Paul spent 3 years in the Arabian desert unlearning and learning and getting an understanding of the scriptures he had not got sitting at the feet of Gamaliel who was considered the greatest teacher of his day .

But given we are instructed to " rightly divide " the Word of God is it unreasonable the Lord showed him how to do so?

The letter to the Romans ( gentiles) and the letter to the Hebrews are in my humble opinion the greatest examples of the lost art of Biblical argument .Where he not only leads up,the mountain of exposition but also stops (as all men do climbing one)and looks back and says in effect in the light of all this " therefore consider yourselves dead to sin and alive unto God." Then leads us further up,the hill .occasionally stopping as before .

I find him not an easy man to follow or to walk with , but goodness me well worth the effort and I'm in good company because Peter had the same problem .

I'll say therefore again knowing Greek or Hebrew is no guarantee and I'm thankful to him who pointed it out with regards to predestination . I can't argue in Greek . But while it may say destined in Greek (though I do wonder if that's all it says or means )it would be wrong to put it in English . It must be predestined in English . For no man is destined for that would make him have some inherent characteristic which would make him worthy of it .

It is due to the foreknowledge and predetermined will and working of God . Thus it must be PRE destined .

Wow!

That's very interesting Giannis.

God bless you and thank you for causing us to dig deeper.

When the Psalmist foresaw the sufferings of the Lord on Calvary opening with the words " My God ,my God why hast thou foresaken me" Those prophetic words were fulfilled to the letter .

For prophecy is but history written in advance .

It is thought that when the Lord gave voice to those awful and agonising words that somehow the Father simply turned His back on Him .

It was far worse than that . For did not the Lord say that " The Father was IN Him?"

If you see me you see the father also ?

The awful reality was that the Son who had always been in the bosom of the Father who had proceedeth from the Father who had sent him to do His will and not the Son to do his . So loved the world that He sent His only beloved Son to die for the sin of the world . In that " He who knew no sin became sin .."

The Father did not just turn His back on him. But left him ,forsook him for God cannot look on sin nor abide where sin is .

When Jesus was baptised the voice from heaven said " This is my beloved Son in whom I'm pleased to dwell "

The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to endure being separated from the Father so that we or any who belueved the Father and put their faith in the Son might not only never be separated from God ever again but might be with Him forever .

Glory to God forever .

How did Paul put it?"I am fully persuaded that No thing can ever separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus .."

Jesus said " The words that I speak are not my own words ,but the Father who is in me He doeth the works ."

Did He not also say " greater works shall ye do after that the Holy Spirit has come and not only be with you but in you and shall abide with you forever .?

Is it not also written " As the Father sent me so send I you"?

Then even as the Father was in Him " who doeth the work" is it not now the Son the Spirit of Christ that now dwellers in us who " doeth the work?"

For is it not written " It is God that worketh within us both to will and to do of Hos good pleasure"?Did not the Lord Himself say " what I see the Father doing that do I"?

Where did He see it? In the scriptures but also by the Holy Spirit in accordance of them.

The Holy Spirit is not an ' influence' of God He is a Person.

Know you not " that he who sanctifieth and he who is sanctified are one"?

That we are " coworkers with God"?

So even as the Lord came " not to do His own will but the Fathers" so likewise we are called to the same high calling .

For even as He said " know you not that the Father is in me and I am in the Father ,so he that sees me seeeth also the Father .

Does that not also apply to every true born child of God ?

In that it is Christ in us and we in Him and we are to be His witnesses even as the Lord was of the Father .

We are to be far more than influencers or influenced by the Holy Spirit .

But rather as light shining in the darkness even as the moon though having no light of its own bares witness even in the darkest night ,that the sun is still shining and there is coming a perfect day .

GB

Let us look at Peter that great Apostle to the Jews .

Almighty God in His great wisdom allowed that Peters many failures were recorded for " admonishing and learning" for whom the ends of the world has come .

He was indeed a man often at the forefront but a man often too quick or hasty for his own good .

It was Peter who was given the understanding of who Jesus is . Tho are the Christ the Son of the living God". But with one breath he was the mouthpiece of God with the next a mouthpiece of the devil.

There are not many people who would still stand or walk with the Lord after that open rebuke ." Get behind me Satan"

He cut off the servants ear at the garden of gethsemene. For even at this late stage ( as with all the others) he was fighting for an earthly kingdom .

He having professed his willingness to die for or with the Lord ,denied Him thrice before the cook crowed foreseen by the Lord and foretold for his sake . Bot the Lord foreseeing things prayed for him so that Satan would not " sift him as wheat"

He got it wrong when he instigated the casting of lots for th3 replace me the of Judas . That was to be of Gods choosing and it would be Paul made an Apostle "out of time " who would be the Apostle to the gentiles .

Who would be martyred in Rome . Not Peter .

Who had to rebuke Peter openly when he having eaten with Gentile converts then separated himself when the circumcision party came around .

Who openly confessed Paul's understanding was greater than his for some " were hard to understand"

We should be careful not to denigrate the man for his zeal was without question even if at first it was with out knowledge . He walked on water albeit he had " little faith ".

Took the first open air meeting on the day of Pentecost .

Was with John near the gate beautiful and gave the lame man what he had .etc etc

But he was still but a stone . The Rock was the Lord the Son of the living God upon which the eternal church of God wouod be built .

He did

Thou Peter art a stone ,but upon this rock. "I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it "

For the record : 2Samuel 22:47 clearly states what the scriptures say among many others who is " the Rock".

And upon that rock "I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail agains5 it "

I used to think and was once taught if only indirectly that some how it is the church that is under siege nd on the back foot by the gates of hell which of course will not prevail against it .

But when we speak of gates here we are speaking of gates of a city the weakest point of the wall protecting the city So are the most heavily defended . I'm not sure what exactly or perfectly it does mean . But I am certain that it does not mean the gates of hell are attacking the church but won't prevail.

But rather what ever it does mean it is the gates of hell that are in deep trouble from this church and will not prevail .

Or withstand the church of God that is built on the rock of ages the everlasting rock .Jesus the Son of the Living God .

Amen Gerald!

Gates in scripture is used as defense for a city.

The "Gates of Hell" will NOT prevail against the Church!

It's the Church on offence in this battle with Christ as our Victor.

That reminds me of Daniel 7:25. And he/Antichrist. shall speak great words against the most High, AND SHALL WEAR OUT THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

You see ,This couldn't be the SAINTS/Church! Israel is also called saints.

Psalms 148:14.

Psalms 50:5-7.

The Church is not on the scene. In fact the antichrist can't come on the scene until the Church is removed.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-9. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: ONLY HE/HOLYSPIRIT WHO NOW LETTETH WILL LET, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.

And then shall that Wicked/Antichrist be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

GB.

Just a thought and something to consider .

When Joseph was in Egypt he was already married when he=met his brethren the second time .

So also was Moses already married to a gentile wife before he met his brethren the second time .

The Bride will predominantly be made up of Gentiles but that does not mean there will be no Jews in the make up of the Bride but comparatively very few . The bulk of the Jews who will be saved will be that remnant who will " see Him who they have pierced " and will be saved in a day when they call upon the Lord surrounded by their enemies and about to perish .

GB

Amen Gerald.

God bless.

Thanks for those reminders .

Is it not written that the bride shall come "out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners "leaning upon her beloved ""

The Lord is coming FOR His bride ,who hath made herself ready and is " looking for Him" .

For they that look for Him shall He appear the second time".

Not all shall see Him ,for He shall come as a thief in the night and shall steal away from them those things that some think is their.

For there shall be two in a bed and one shall be gone ,two in the field and one departed .etc.

At the coming of the Lord the first time we had people looking for Him " running to and hastening to the coming of the Lord"

The shepherds . The man and woman in the temple prayed and prophesied when they saw the child ,baby.

Many were in the temple but only those two were looking for Him.

The church has reduced the Salvation of God to being BORN again . It also in the main has projected the idea that that qualifies us to be in the=Bride .

Let it be understood that ever6 true BORN child of God is called to that" high calling". But as in the Olympics where athletes have to qualify to actually race in the Olympics . So likewise being Born again qualifies us to " run the race" .

But to win the prize as Paul puts it we have to run it not just because spectator and run it lawfully or as per conditions .

If the Lord said to those who knew Him after the flesh to " be ye also ready".

How much the more us ?

Who seeing as it were afar off may like those servants think the Lord delays the His coming and stop working and be as the world ?

Happy is the man who is found working when He comes .

Is it not true that when a workman should has been working half the day sits down for 5 minutes and that is the exact moment the boss comes walking in ?

Did not all 10 virgins fall asleep? And had to be wakened with the cry " the bridegroom comes!

But only 5 were wise and ready .

GB

Could it be the same rock in Daniel , the one that grinds the statue to pieces ? The same rock that on whomever it falls it will grind them to pieces ? That rock of offence and stumbling to the Jews ? The chief corner stone on which our faith is built ? Christ , the Son of God ? Risen from the dead and alive forever more ? If you believe that in that instance , the gates of hell is referring to death , the last enemy to be destroyed , then Christ , the rock , is going to smash those gates and free the dead .

It is indeed the same rock . But all true born sons of God have already passed from death to life .

If Adam had not disobeyed God and sinned ,he would never have died and would be still walking this earth today .

And the garden of Eden perhaps would have been replicated all over the earth .

But God spoke the truth that in the day they are of that particular tree "they would surely die"

Yet did they not live for another 800 odd years? Yes but you could argue that God had created man with so much life it took rhat long for death that now reigned in them to manifest itself .

Jesus could not have died . For He had not sinned . If then He had not given Himself for a sacrifice for sin under the law . He would still be walking around this earth today .

But under the law " He who knew no sin became sin .." and so died .

" For the sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law"

The gates of death and hell therefore coukd not be shut against Him .What says the scriptures ? " Open up here gates .."

Thus those gates had to open for Him. SomHe was buried ; dead for 3 days .

But glory to God there is more life in God than there is death in sin .

And Jesus Himself had not sinned and the devil "could find nothing in Him "that was his.

Death and hell could not keep Him in then and God could justly and righteously raise Him from the dead .

The tomb stone rolled away with an angel sat on top of it ,( it's going nowhere) The Lord folded the cloth that covered His face aside and stepped outside .

Shaking off all principalities and powers ,making an one. Show of them.

He was not raised alone .

For is it not also written "we are raised together WITH Him"?

He did not just rise from the dead either . But was made raptor sit on the right hand sifted if the Majesty on high far above all principalities and powers and given a name that is" above every name.." in heaven and earth and under the earth .

In the day that thou eatest thou shalt surely die , and you mentioned that Adam and Eve lived another 800 years , is this not because one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day to God ?

Hi Sammy.

Here us the scripture where some try to use as measurement for the way the Lord sees a day.

This verse is not emphasizing the length of a day but the patience of the LORD.

The clue is in verse 9.

2 Peter 3:4-9. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; BUT IS LONGSUFFERING TO US-WARD, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that all should come to repentance.

You see if we are going to use the first half of verse 8 as a tool for measuring ""But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years"", ( Which is very long)

We would have to also consider the second half of verse 8.

""and a thousand years as one day.""

( That's very short)

God and his longsuffering is not confined by time.

GB.

Hi thanks for that .Very helpful ,I've never thought of it in the context of the whole sentence . But just known there was something amiss as to how so often it's applied .

Hi Sammi.

That wouldn't quite add up.

That would make Adam about 300,000,000 years old.

GB.

I'm sorry , my fault I guess I didn't make myself clear , when God said that in the day thou eatest thou shalt die , and then on the day that Adam and Eve ( 24hour day) did eat , they did not die , but lived another 800 years as Gerald said , then a possible explanation of that is because , one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day to God as stated in 1st Peter I think . Sorry for not being clear in my post .

Hello ' Sammi '

Just because their bodies did not die for another 800 years does not mean they did not die on the very day that they did eat of it .

Personally I think God had created man with so much life it took that long for that death that now reigned in him to manifest itself .Now it only takes 70 years or so .

For are we not " dead in trespasses and in sin"? Yet we are to all appearances alive .

Many will have Christmas trees in their living rooms . They look green and alive . But because they are cut off at the root they are in fact dead and that death will soon begin to manifest itself anon.

And all the lights and tinsel and even the false fruit of those baubles will not make it otherwise .

So we should believe God that he means what he said and he says what he means .

For then we might come "to know Him who is from the beginning "

It was not believing God that in the day ye eat if it "you shall surely " and believing the lie " ye shall not surely die " that has led the world and all of mankind into the sorry mess it is in now .

For the devil not only "changed the truth into a lie" by simply adding ' not' but told a half truth , for on the face of it they did not .

Are we now to think the devil speaks the truth and God has the character of the devil !?

God was right in the beginning and has always spoken the truth and is right now also and every will be.

The devil on the other hand that arch deceiver was a liar in the beginning and is the father of all lies .

That day and hour when he will be forced to bow his knee and confess Jesus Christ is Lord will not be to his salvation but everlasting contempt and damnation.

Indeed that victory has already been accomplished when Jesus died for sin and thus stripped him of all power and authority .

For the sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the Law .

But that victory obtained unseen will also one day be manifested but we can by faith enjoy it now .

Thanks Sammi.

I now understand what you meant.

Some use those verses as measurement to put us into the Millennium and many other things.

God bless.

That's 1 way to look at it. Day definition as span of time. Psalms 90:4, 2Peter 3:8,

Genesis 3, Also a Spiritual death, that happened immediately, the results of which were immediate fear, instead of trust to their creator. Feeling naked before GOD, & man etc. Matthew 8:22, Luke 9:60, Romans 5:12-21,

Eternal life, reference too Psalms 82,

Hopefully this is helpful

That phrase is often used and I think misused. In this case consider what God said was a day in the recreation of the earth .

Then consider what God said " in the day you eat of it"

Then consider what the devil said " ye shall not surely die "

If it was as you said then that would make God not straight speaking and the devil a speaker of the truth !

It was in fact a very subtle lie . For while on the same day they did eat if it and by Gods Word died .

They did not physically die till over 800 odd years .

A part truth is as good as a lie .

We must take Gods Word for it .

In truth everything up to the creation of Man was good and in the end very good .

Wrapped upon that great truth that a man was created in the Image of God is another great truth .

" Man shall not LIVE by bread alone (or by every tree that was good to eat ) but by that knowledge of God as to what wascgoid to eat and what was in effect evil to eat and by that word that proceeded from Gods mouth they lived .

It was the rejection of Gods Word and believing the lie of the devil that they became not only blind to the truth but perceived and reasoned wrongly .

For she " saw that the tree was good to eat " and she reasoned thus ," it wouid make her wise"

Adams sin was greater for he not only loved Eve more than God but in effect obeyed eve rather than God .

Sin "separates us from God" so they died on the very day and the very moment they disobeyed God and did that which was right or good in their own eyes .

It was a permanent effect for in choosing to cover their nakedness with fig leaves in their eyes it did indeed do so.

But when God called them from their hiding place ( darkness) into His presence ( light) with eyes from which nothing is hid saw that it did not . And gave them a covering of Hos own choosing ".For love covers a multitude of sin " and which foreshadowed the animal,sacrifices that were ordained to come .

But God also gave a promise by which God provided a redemption.

Gerald, i love what you said about God having more life in Himself than sin has death. Thank you! That blessed me today.

Hello Spencer

WORSHIPPING IN TRUTH AND IN SPIRIT. What does that mean? Let's try to see it through sacrificies. In The Old Testament times the Jews were going to the Temple of Solomon and worshiped God by offering sacrifices. We do the same, but the sacrifices are different now.

Romans 12:1-2 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

So we offer ourselves as living sacrifices, a pure life full of God's Spirit.

1 Peter 2:5 "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" We have a spiritual Temple/House now ("Temple" in grk (Naos) means "Place of Residence") and as priest we offer our prayers for people as spiritual sacrifices to Father God.

Rev 5:8 "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of ODOURS, which are the prayers of saints"

Rev 8:3 "And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the GOLDEN ALTAR which was before the throne"

So, again, our prayers stand as spiritual sacrifices.

Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the SACRIFICE OF PRAISE to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." Although a more accurate translation is "confessing His name" So confessing, praising and thanksgiving are also spiritual sacrifices.

Thus filling ourselves with the Spirit of God (since we have no ability to do anything on our own) and staying in the Truth of God's written Word is worshipping God now(as well)

GBU.

Thanks, and Amen Giannis!

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, SACRIFICE AND OFFERINGS THOU WOULDEST NOT, BUT A BODY HADST THOU PREPARED ME:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

BY TH WHICH WILL WE ARE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE OFFERING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ONCE FOR ALL.

Hebrews 10:1-10.

I love the way you broke down 1 Peter 2:5 in the Greek.

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" We have a spiritual Temple/House now ("Temple" in grk (Naos) means "Place of Residence") and as priest we offer our prayers for people as spiritual sacrifices to Father God.

It parallels with Philippians 2:13.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Doing the act of these things you mentioned in the flesh "for carnal reasons" (for show, glory, etc. etc.) or APART from a regenerated heart we are incapable of pleasing God.

By the spirit we are able to worship him in truth and in spirit.

Thanks, and God bless for all you do.

To worship in Spirit and in truth:

As opposed or rather in contrast to worshipping God in the flesh in or towards Jerusalem .

Jesus in conversation with the woman at the well said " we ( the Jews ) worship what we know "

They say worship God in that mountain you in another .

The Old Testament teaching by the true prophets of God taught the children of Isreal you can only worship God in or towards Jerusalem . As testified by Daniel who was thrown in the lions den on this issue when he worshipped towards Jerusalem through his open window .

As also by Jonah who when he had repented in the belly of the great fish turned towards Jerusalem and worshipped God .

Testified also by God who not nay taught that in the flesh it can only be in and towards Jerusalem . But judged the children of Isreal when they did not but went after the Samaritans .

If one who claimed to be a prophet teaches that now you worship God in or towards that other place or ' mountain' all the evidence is against that assumed prophet who contradicts every other prophet .

But what of Jesus who some claim they honour also as a true prophet ?

He said " God is Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth " not in this or that mountain .

Thus that false prophet contradicted Him who he said he honoured in the Spirit also.

In truth? " Thy Word is truth" according to to Word of God as to who and what God is and all that He is .

In Spirit? In by and through the Holy Spirit who by the Word of God enlightens and leads us into that true worship of God .

Why then in the flesh is it taught in or towards Jerusalem?

Because He who is God incarnate will one day sit on His throne of David ,in Jerusalem and all flesh will come and worship .

Hi Gerald.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

I believe thinking of Jerusalem geographically as the Jews did under the law being "temporary" blinded, it was also a part of the worldly sanctuary looking forward to better things.

Hebrew 11:9-10. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Galatians 4:26-28

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

GB.

Hello, We must always remember that while works do not save us only Gods work so to speak at Calvary .

A true born child of God of the Word and the Spirit have righteous works that will be rewarded . " For He will not forget our labour of love" nor is God any man's debtor .

Thus a child of Gods works will be tested or tried by fire be they wood or stubble or something more lasting ( spiritual ) .

The unconverted will be judged unto condemnation and damnation before God.

The saved will also be judged not unto condemnation but of their deeds done in the body .

Crowns of "righteousness " and of " life" etc are rewards the crown of a martyr can only be won by a true martyr.

All the glory is Gods whatever we do for "He doeth the work " and it is God that workers both to will and to do of His good pleasure " nevertheless is it not written " we are co workers with God"?

The " works" of James and the works of Paul though both using the same word with careful and prayerful reading wil show they are talking about two different sorts of works .

Hello Gerald'

You wrote "A true born child of God of the Word and the Spirit have righteous works that will be rewarded . " For He will not forget our labour of love" nor is God any man's debtor." How true this is! We often think (wrongly) that God owes to us for obeying Him, something like a wage for our obedience. And we forget that we are servants who ought to do what their master orders us to do. It is God's love and mercy (and justice) that gives us what we ask for. In my life I got things from God even when I had no faith at all. Is this possible, doesn't the Word say that without faith we will not get anything from God? Yes it does, but God doesn't have a list of requirements for giving and if we don't fulfil all of them, then we are not eligible for getting our requests. God loves us, His children, and often He ignores our weaknesses. So it is always God's Love...

And by the way, when we obey God it is useful for us, God has nothing to win from that. GBU

Amen Giannis.

Perhaps this verse says the same.

Luke 17:7-10.

Hi Gerald.

Oops I meant well spoken!

I'm trying something new, "Using voice command from the cell phone.

It's not going well.

God bless.

Lol ,technology is fine but only when it works properly !

I'm not a fan of predictive type either . :)

Amen Gerald.

Well token God bless you.

Brother Spencer,

I will go with B): "the effectual working of the Holyspirit that lines one heart to be in agreement with God's law?"

We cannot do anything pleasing to God in our own human effort. When we stand before the Lord one day, we will have nothing to boast of. It will not be "Look at what I did for you Lord."

The Bible says in Romans 14:23, that which is not of faith is sin. There's a very powerful meaning to that. Understanding that faith means persuasion, this tells me that anything I do which is not under the persuasion of God's Spirit, that is sin. It doesn't matter what it is I'm doing.

I don't believe God will reward me for anything I did in the human. That's all going to burn. What's important is what my response was each and every time His Spirit persuaded me to move or do something.

As for John 4:23-24:

The word worship in the Bible, in the New Testament, also found here, literally means to bow down and kiss the ring of somebody.



In other words, if you are coming into the presence of the king, you bow down, you get on your knee, and you kiss his ring. And then he will lift the scepter and you'll be able to talk. But you cannot until you express your submission and reverence.



That's how it is with God. You see, true worship is submission. It is obedience. True worshipers worship, and remember what it means, to bow down, to submit. True worshipers worship God in spirit and in truth. Submitting to His truth and reverencing His truth is the highest form of worship we can express.

God looks on the heart, and man looks on the outward appearance. Mans works are unacceptable to Him. God is Spirit.

Everybody that gives genuine worship to God worships Him in Spirit. We are to surrender to His Spirit and to surrender to His truth. That is the highest form of worship.

We can only do that by being in submission to His Spirit. I think we're in agreement on this one?

May the Lord continue to bless you through His word!

While you must be ' persuaded' to exercise your faith the true definition of what faith IS is found in Hebrews11.

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things as yet unseen "

Gerald,

Hebrews 1:1 is a description of faith, not a definition of faith. The only definition is found in the meaning of the word itself.



In the Greek text, ( Hebrews 1:1), this is a description of what faith does. The description of faith is two things: The substance, or basis of things hoped for, and the evidence, more literally conviction, of things not seen.



Now if I take this description of what faith does, and its definition of persuasion, that faith is the basis of things hoped for, why do I have hope for the coming of Christ?



Why do I have a living hope that one day when I die, I'm going to go to heaven? Either it's something that I am persuading myself to believe, which means there's a possibility that someday someone will persuade me not to believe.



Or, my hope is based upon, which the next phrase says, the conviction of things not seen. It's a conviction. That's a persuasion! It's not a definition, but describes what faith does.



There are times when we as human beings doubt what the bible says. Have you ever had those moments when you look over at the bible and you think "It's just a book?"



I mean you open it up and it has ink words in it. It didn't fall down from heaven, somebody printed it. How do I know that it's not just our western culture religious book? Other religions have their book, so what's the big deal?



But I can't get away from it. It's a conviction. I can stand before you right now and make the announcement that I am denouncing the Lord and His word, and I'm finished.



But I will never be able to get away from Him, never! I have never been able to get away from it, and I can't now! My beliefs are based on the conviction of God's Spirit that lives in me. That's faith. It's not my faith. My human faith waivers.



But when I look down deep, there's something there that is a stabilizing force that is the basis of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen, spiritual things, spiritual truth.

To anyone reading my post, I mistakenly typed Hebrews 1:1. Please disregard as I am speaking about Hebrews 11:1.

Faith has no real substance at all if it is not resting in God.

All men have faith but not all men have their faith in God .

It is often said in the UK that people are losing faith in their politicians .

For decades the vast majority of the electorate has blindly voted for a party and elected someone they have never seen,heard met or had a decent conversation with . Thus have no idea what sort of people they have elected to represent them ..

That is more a vain hope than faith .

Real transparency is knowing with some degree of certainty what principles ( if any) rule and govern a candidates life .

A man who cannot keep his oath to his wife is unlikely to keep his oath to those who elected him .

A politician who cannot judge on such a simple matter as to what is a man or what is a woman will find it increasingly difficult to judge aright on the more graver issues facing a nation.

People have but a vain hope they will do otherwise .

The whole sorry mess this world is in is primarily due to not believing God in the first place as to what was good and what was in effect evil to eat .

For man shall not LIVE by bread alone but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God .

Did not God say to Adam " of all the trees in the garden you may freely eat. This included the tree of life .

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat for in the day you eat of it ye shall surely die"

Thus God gave him ,HIS knowledge of what was good and what was evil and by that word they lived .

Unbelief is not just no believing God its believing another message .

In doing so " she SAW that the tree was good to eat " and reasoned thus " it would make her wise "

When you don't believe the truth you will believe the lie and once you believe the lie you become blind to the truth .

But thanks be unto God mJesus came " to restore sight to the blind".

God was right and true in the beginning ( as He is now)and for ever shall be .

Amen

Nice comment. "It is often said in the UK that people are losing faith in their politicians". Only in the UK? Don't be unfair with your country, this is a wordwide pandemic desease. Politicians seem to belong to a separate "world" nomatter the country, but we ought to pray for them...

You also wrote "A man who cannot keep his oath to his wife is unlikely to keep his oath to those who elected him .

A politician who cannot judge on such a simple matter ... will find it increasingly difficult to judge aright on the more graver issues facing a nation". I was always thinking the same. The Bible says that if you are not faithful/righteous in least, then you will not be faithful/rightous in much, Luke 16:10.

Beg to differ.For given much misunderstanding of what faith is on the one hand and none sense on the other by the world not only do we need a biblical definition of faith and thus a proper understanding of it but also need to recognise what is faith and what is not .

Now faith is

It should first be understood by the scriptures that " God has given every man a measure of (true )faith to profit with all "

Everyone has a measure faith and uses it everyday Wether saved or not . The difference between a true born child of God and the lost is that a child of God's faith is in God or should be and the unsaved faith is in the world .

Now faith is . Faith can only be exercised in the now the present . Not the past or future .

"The substance of things hoped for " Real faith is not blind it has to be founded or rest upon spiritual reality .

What is called today " world faiths" is nothing of the kind . All of them are but vain and empty hopes that the scriptures says " will die with them" for when a man steps from time into eternity you are faced with that eternal spiritual reality of God and you religious ' hope' will die in the light of it . The only sure and certain hope is having your faith in Jesus Christ .

The substance of things hoped for .The Word of God ,the promises of God . For faith in God comes not only by hearing the Word of God but by also understanding of it .

Being convinced of and by the Word of God you act or obey in accordance with what you are convinced of irrespective of prevailing conditions . Thus you give substance to your hope in the Word of God .

The word or promise of a London bus company or an airline are well known and understood . You can believe it till the day you die but if you do not act in faith on what you believe and obey the instructions you will never fly or catch the bus .

Going and standing at the bus stop gives substance to yiur hope . Going to the airport likewise .

to be continued .

alex1939...Gerald I love your analogy of the bus but we are not hoping for a bus we live in hope of the Kingdom of God...When we pray we say thy kingdom come thy will be done...Thats y he has to know us that when that good seed the living word is sown in our hearts initiating a spiritual pregnancy FAITH... John 16 :21...Jesus said b/c i have spoken these words which are his seeds sorrows has filled your hearts...A woman when she is in travail she has sorrows but soon as the Child comes her sorrows are turn into joy...Her Child is the H.G. the very Kingdom of God....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child via a Heavenly Birth you will in no wise enter there in...The H.G.is that Child of Promise that we so desperetly hope for...This Woman in Rev 12 is the best example of Real faith...And she was impregnated by the words of Jesus...They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin...She had the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen...which was the manchild the H.G..the Kingdom comes after the woman gived birth to the baby..The spirit of truth.

....Thats y I always say Faith under this new Covenant is a Spritual pregnancy...Under the O.T. faith yielded lil Issac Abrahams son...But under the N.T Faith forms Christ in us by hearing his words which are his good seeds..When he breathe on them he was propagating very God the H.G..His breath was his words his seeds...They were impregnated by his breath which are his words his seeds etc...Thats what hearing the gospel is supposed to do form Christ in us sinners which leads to a heavenly birth of Christ in us...But as Jesus said i am the light of the world but the night comes when NO MAN can work...That great falling away, satan is now standing in the pulpits & TV...Saying blessed are the wombs that never bare and the paps that neva give suck...Kill em in the womb..I'm just trying to turn the hearts of the fathers to Jesus Children...The H.G...There is a Child in your future...The H.G....K GBU.