Bible Discussion Thread

 

    This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment to start a new comment thread.

    Enter new comment
     

  • Rodd - 3 years ago
    Sir, Who does the Bible say is ISRAEL ? The wide world church seems to claim that Jews are ISRAEL. Then we must ask who the JEWS are ! In John ch 8 JESUS Himself reveals the answer to us.....which does NOT agree with church thinking !!

    So I ask:- JESUS came for the lost sheep of ISRAEL. The 10 tribes of ISRAEL were exiled to Assyria and never returned. (They are still "lost" - but some do know who and where they are today ! ) The 2 tribes of JUDAH were exiled to Babylon......and returned, found their land ( then renamed JUDAEA) was occupied...so ( whilst some initially aided in the rebuilding of the walls and Temple of Jerusalem) the 2 tribes of JUDAH made their home in Galilee....NOT a part of JUDAEA. ( Luke ch 2 v 4 ).

    In JESUS' day...that was the status quo.

    So, getting near my question ! :- JESUS stayed out of JUDAEA for "fear of the Jews". (John ch 7 v 1 ) They could not be Israelites as all 12 tribes were accounted for and JESUS did not find them. Matt ch 10 ! So ...who were the JEWS? The Jews know ! AND JESUS reveals the answer to us !...but the churches teach that they were ISRAEL !! The JEWS said in Matt ch 27 v 25 :- "His blood be on us and on our children." To say, therefore, ...as churches do say...that JESUS was a Jew CANNOT and IS NOT right !! What say you ?

    (JESUS, ((during His ministry ))- despite what preachers surmise, - is recorded as only entering JUDAEA on 4 occasions...each at Passover time. His teaching was almost all done in Galilee. )

    It seems to me that "truth" is very absent in the church...indeed, in the world !!!

    This is a sensitive subject, I hope it will be treated as such, thank you. rodd.
  • Rodd - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Cont: Facts:

    Genesis ch 36 esp. v 8

    Mal. ch 1 vs 2-4

    Book of OBADIAH GOD's anger towards the Edomites for aiding Babylon.

    Ezekiel ch 35 esp. v 15, ch 36 esp. v. 5. Isaiah ch 34

    "Gentile" It is used to replace "goy". A latin word from gens meaning "family "

    ie...of the same tribe or group

    You will probably think it means " not a Jew ". That is what you are told to believe.

    Genesis ch 10 in the KJV states:- "the isles of the Gentiles". You will note that Genesis ch 10 is BEFORE even Abraham. Abrahams son Isaac had 2 sons called Jacob and Esau. Jacob would be renamed as "ISRAEL" ( Gen 35 v 10)

    The Jews claim "goy" means Not a Jew......what in Gen ch 10 ? There were no Israelites for 2 generations hence so how can that be so?

    The problem :- The whole world church teaches that Gentiles are "non Jews"......and therefore the ASSUMPTION that JEWS must be Israelites !!! So throughout the Bible...with this false belief...every reader thinks verses like Isaiah ch 49 v 6 (or ch 42 v 6 ) or Matt ch 4 v 15 etc all refer to Gentiles......when in fact they refer to ISRAEL " a light to the Gentiles....the same clan as being spoken of !

    Jews are not Israelites. Jewish Almanac 1980 states:- Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a JEW, or to call a contemporary JEW an Israelite or Hebrew". (They know..but Christians do not !!!! )

    Number ch 20 prove no Jews at Sinai.

    JESUS John ch 8 speaks to "the Jews" v. 32 "The truth shall make you free" . In anger they reply: v 33 " We are Abraham's seed and never in bondage " V 37 JESUS AGREES about Abraham....BUT..ALL ISRAELITES were in bondage in Egypt and all were also in either Assyria or Babylon. Thus the Jews are NOT ISRAEL - but of ESAU..EDOM. GOD's enemy. Read ch 8 v 44. and Rev. ch 2 v 9/ 3 v 9. Open your eyes...we ARE Israel ! Isaac's sons....(Zac's sons.....Saxons) To Rick: sorry..Deut ch 32 v 26.
  • Rodd - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Continuation:-

    Re the word "JEW". Up to this point the word "JEW" was perfectly ok !

    It simply referred to " ALL residents of JUDAEA" Peter..in Acts ch 2 vs 5-14 goes some way to prove this. He describes "JEWS" in v 5 as traders/people from anywhere in the world ( ie. NOT ONE RACE of people ) as "JEWS" - and addressed them as :- "Ye men of JUDAEA" v 14. These were the visitors..the core of people were Edomites living in JUDAEA. (see previous comment) ( You may also like to note that in v 22 Peter calls ONLY "Ye men of ISRAEL" to repent and be Baptised" )

    BUT !

    In 19th century the Zionist Movement was gaining ground and power...and it decided it wanted Palestine. But to do this, they needed to impress their history on us all and so changed the definition of a JEW. No longer as it was....ie of JUDAEA" but they claim of "JUDAH". and added saying that a JEW is "anyone born of a Jewish woman ( !!!) ...or a convert to Judaism". Many Bibles were still in Latin...and education was lacking..so it was easy for them to persuade the churches of a "slight amendment " (!!) re the word "JEW". Of course, the introduction of antisemitism was a help !!! ( 1850 AD ) .

    Now I will NOT go further along this thread I hope you understand that it leads to 1948.....but I will say that one should be careful with knowledge and how to handle it.

    What I will do now is begin to give the PROOF of what I have written FROM THE BIBLE..and much of JESUS Himself and GOD HIMSELF.

    A side track :- JESUS warns (eg. Mark ch 7 vs 5-13 ) of the "traditions of the elders"......ie. Judaism ..which came out of Babylon:- Rabbi Stephen Wise - about 1860-1940 - an eminent Jew in New York - said :" The return from Babylon and the adoption of the " Babylonian Talmud ( oral )[ ie tradition of the elders]...marks the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism." Believe it !!!!

    I will continue.......
  • Chris - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Matthew 15:24: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

    The Greek word for lost, 'apolummi' (in this context) refers to those of Israel who were perishing/ruined, being devoid of godly teaching & guidance that should have been the blessing, comfort & guidance of the sheep. It would be incorrect to think that Jesus was speaking about those dispersed & lost into the nations. Just adding this, since you asked.
  • Ronald L Whittemore - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Rodd,

    The way I understand this, Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, to fulfill the law, the prophets, and confirm the covenant. Jew, the term "Jew" did not even appear until the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive of Babylon. Jew is an abbreviated slang term for Judahite. Today most people consider anyone in the religion of Judaism a Jew.

    The Jew back then were those who were in the kingdom of Judah/Judea under the laws of Moses and came to Jerusalem to obey the feasts and they all were called a Jew. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah which would make Him a Jew.

    Jesus spent time in Judea but left Judea for Galilee when John the Baptist was arrested, to allude the Pharisees and Sadducees not Jews. The people in Galilee were Jews also. Samaria that was in between was mostly the tribes of Israel that had mingled with Assyrians

    The house of Israel is all the tribes, after the divide, the kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Judah both is the house of Israel and the lost sheep is from both.

    I know this does not answer all your questions but may it help.

    RLW
  • Rodd - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Hi Rick,

    I assure you I am not angry. I am lucid and not muddled. We are dealing with a very sensitive topic - and one that few are acquainted with...ie who is ISRAEL !!! You see there has been a successful endeavour to hide the truth..and it is a MASSIVE conspiracy which has blinded the church..even the world. And it occurred only 170 years ago.

    Firstly though - Jesus is the Christ and ALL that HE claims to be....in fact all that GOD says He is.... SON of GOD..'begotten' of the Father; and as I said before ie. a Man chosen by GOD...to be the First Fruit of Mankind and when He said " It is finished" His work on earth was done and He was raised up by His Father, GOD, and THEN Glorified, given all power in Heaven and on earth; given the seat at the right hand of the power of GOD.. to become the "Mighty GOD " of Isaiah ch 9 v 6.....and will be the Everlasting Father of ISRAEL in the New Covenant..and David, His father, will be king....in the world to come. And this will all be done by the zeal of the Lord of Hosts - All mighty GOD (v 7 ) .

    The problem is here in the world. I don't wish to repeat my previous message..but ISRAEL " disappeared " and scattered about the world.....Their eyes were shut..and still are shut. Deut. ch 32 v 26; Isaiah ch 29 vs 10-11 or Isaiah. ch 44 v 18.

    (Worse....they have had their identity stolen. BUt I will come to that in further "comments".)

    For this comment : - the problem is that the "JEWS" have been confused with Israel . and sad to say...it was a deliberate act to deceive....and absolutely successfully....and you are witness of that success. Sadly the Bibles translators also been deceived and have adopted this belief. The word "JEW" did NOT exist until 1760 AD..YES AD !!!

    Even the KJ 1611 does NOT contain the word "JEW..but "Iewe" I will explain all. There were no Jews at Sinai.......and I am running out of space.....to be continued !!!

    I
  • Rick - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Rodd I believe I know where your going with this and I'll wait for your reply, also I never said you weren't clear, there are people who seem angry just because others disagree and then its this is the way it is. The only thing I'm saying is explain it biblically. In His Service
  • Adam - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Hello,

    I'd like to kindly point out that I noticed your logic that because the letter J didn't exist until x date, that __[insert assumption here]___. It seems like you're using this logic to try to discredit a word with a J that you don't like, as if it doesn't exist or something. But if you apply that to Jews then you would apply that to the King of the Jews, and you would apply that to Jerusalem, Joseph, and even Jesus. Does that mean you don't believe Jesus exists or that there's a problem with the word?

    The imperfection in this logic is English is a language and the Bible in English is a translation. English isn't as old of a language as Hebrew or Greek for example. And languages sometimes evolve. English used more latin in the early translation, which is why you see I instead of J. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't change the meaning. You also have old words pass away and new words be introduced. This is all normal. The Bible is a translation and it's already translated correctly. Jesus is a correct translation. Jew is a correct translation. I thought I'd take a moment to explain this. God bless...
  • Rick - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Hi Rodd I am not approaching this as a hot topic but apparently your angry, if I may are you attempting to say that Jesus Christ wasn't as He Himself said I am sent to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. Also the Wise men came to see Him who was Born King of the Jews. In His own Hometown of Galilee He couldn't do a lot of miracles because of there unbelief, that's a whole different discussion. I will not say that all The Tribe of Israel believed but they knew and were taught that the messiah was going to come out of Israel the people chosen of God out of the line of people who believed I.E. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David and so on. This being said I don't understand your conclusion. In His Service
  • Rodd - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Folks....I have several responses...some rather in advance of my own comments which are far from complete ! : eg. to Chris I say : I would think that Israel in exile in Assyria would be a place "without godly guidance"...referring to your remark about "lost sheep".

    To Rick, RLW, Adam....thank you but give me time to explain these things ! Having done so....I will then give the proof of the BIBLE. s.

    The letter "J" was invented in the 16th century...also too early for usage in the 1611 KJV. ie. "JESUS" was spelt with a capital (i) John as Iohn, etc.. But this is beside the point.

    In 586 BC the Kingdom of JUDAH was ended and the men of JUDAH were exiled to Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar was aided by the Edomites to do this.....and GOD was furious...with an everlasting hatred. (Mal ch 1 vs 2-4 ). Jerusalem was left empty so the Idumeans moved in and occupied it. ( Edom - Idumea, was adjacent, south of JUDAH so it combined and YES, in the days JESUS walked in the world, ..the two "countries " were as ONE !! ( Yes, there were the John Hyrcanus's and other skirmishes for the land ....but in JESUS' days on earth Edom and JUDAEA were "ONE" kingdom under the Herod kings...the "sons of Antipater of IDUMEA. You should remember that the 4 Herods between them wanted to kill JESUS -as a baby; they killed John the Baptist; they killed James the brother of John; they tried to kill Peter, they killed Stephen, and they killed JESUS CHRIST.

    The land had been renamed as " JUDAEA" by Babylon and it existed from 586BC to 135 AD when Hadrian -sick of the Jews- humiliated them by renaming JUDAEA as Philystria..Philistine.

    Back to modern days.......So the word "JEW" was 1st used in the Bible from about 1765 ish and the Blaney version of the KJ was one of the first 1769 !

    IT MEANT :- "ALL inhabitants of JUDAEA"..... NOT...NOT of "Judah " JUDAH was finished as a kingdom. I will continue from here. ! Give me time !
  • Rick - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Rodd My question is only one you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, the redeemer of man and that he came through the believing line of Israel. Also that the original scriptures are true. In His Service



This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.

Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
 

Do you have a Bible comment or question?


Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!