Thanks for sharing your perspective on this subject and now I know more of your upbringing.
I think in every believer's life there are specific things and practices that remind us of spiritual truths. These things I have mentioned do just that.
In reading the OT God instituted many practices and utilized objects within the tabernacle that were reminders of truths to the Israelites. I think of the golden lampstand, the table with show bread on it, the mercy seat, the priestly garments, etc. that reminded them of God's holiness and also pointed forward to Jesus so that the Jews of His day and all who read the New Testament, especially the book of Hebrews, can come to understand how these objects and practices were a foreshadowing of Who the Messiah is and what He will do/did.
And at the Last Supper, Jesus used bread and wine to symbolize the New Covenant that advented with His death and resurrection. Whenever we celebrate the Lord's Supper we commemorate this covenant and remember His saving work for us.
Just wanted to share this with everyone here as well as those who hear about this site.
I only have been here a few years. The reason that I joined this group is because of the genuine spirit of Christ Jesus I enjoyed as I read the comments discussing God and God's SON
and His Spirit that dwells in mankind. Do we still share that SPIRIT?
I am glad I was raised from a child to believe in Jesus.
I am glad he was born.
I am glad he saved me.
I am glad a day has been set aside to celebrate His Birth.
I am glad to honor God, the Father,
for giving his son's life for me.
I am not ashamed to say so. "Let the redeemed of the Lord so."
From the way I hear the discussion going is this way. Some are celebrating because of a personal relationship. Some according to traditions. Some for other reasons also. Let us be careful to not confuse the Spiritual with the Carnal. " We worship God in Spirit and TRUTH." The World has a different concept.
It seems like the question is this.
Do you think he deserves to be celebrated at all?
I'm trying to
"see" with my eyes.
"Hear" with my ears and "understand" with my heart,
"Let the words
of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight oh Lord, my strength and my redeemer."
We are at Rev. 1:5, which is the center of the Verse 4, 5, 6 series. Here is the verse in its chiasmus form:
a) And from Jesus Christ,
...b) who is the faithful witness,
......c) and the first begotten of the dead,
.........d) and the prince of the kings of the earth.
......c) Unto him that loved us,
...b) and washed us from our sins
a) in his own blood,
Previously, I explained that chiasmi read from left to right to the center, and then right to left to the end. But, they also read from top to bottom in the series, a, b, c, d, etc.
And it is that center which is the focus of the chiasmus. It follows that the center and focus of Rev. 1:5 is that Jesus is the prince of the kings of the earth.
There is much more to this verse. Especially, where the first verse of this series, Rev. 1:4, references a connection coming from the hereafter chapter, Chapter Four. But it is that center which highlights the metaphorical phrase "kings of the earth."
And that these "kings of the earth" are in that position "unto him that loved us." That is, they are kings unto their King, Lord Jesus ( Rev. 17:14), who loved them and washed them from their sins in his blood.
Rev. 1:5 is powerful and well deserving of holding the central position in the 3, 4, 5 series. The highlight of which is that the Savior is the prince (King) over "the kings of the earth." A metaphorical phrase used throughout The Book of Revelation to reference the Savior's servants.
I have judged no one; i have set before you all something that each must judge for himself. the saints (those that believe jesus was the virgin-born son of god, that he died for the sins of the world, was buried, and rose again the third day) are to judge all things by god's word. i have thus judged xmas.
-- 1co 2:15 but he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
- 1co 6:3 know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?-
-- 1co 6:2 do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
-- 1co 6:5 i speak to your shame. is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
-- 1co 5:3 for i verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though i were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
-- 1co 14:29 let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
-- luk 12:57 yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
-- mat 7:1-2 judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
---- joh 7:24 judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
judge righteously and you will be righteously judged.
-- 1co 11:31 for if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
-- 1co 10:15 i speak as to wise men; judge ye what i say.
judge what i say, but judge it according to and by god's word.
It seems that many church leaders at that time in history thought that many holy persons were conceived and died on the same day of the year only years apart. This was Hippolytus' thinking. If there was a tradition that came from Mary as to the date of Jesus birth, that may have played into this, too. But I am not aware of anything that was recorded of Mary's contribution to the knowledge concerning Jesus' birth day, childhood, etc. I would think that there was most likely an oral tradition known by the apostles and disciples in those early times.
We do have Mary's contribution to the Gospel writers Luke and Matthew as each of these begin with the annunciation and birth of Jesus. Regardless of whether Hippolytus was correct or not in setting Dec. 25 as Jesus' birth day, His birth is worthy of being celebrated and we have no prohibition in Scripture to not celebrate it. It does seem that historically the pagan celebrations in December came later than what Hippolytus introduced as the day of Jesus' birth.
With all this said, I do know that Paul instructs us to utilize the liberty we have in Christ whether to celebrate certain holy days, events, etc. or not to do so. He says each believer is to act according to their own conscience which the Holy Spirit renews in believers, and not let our exercise of Christian liberty bring another believer to stumble. These directives from Paul in Scripture should be our guide in matters such as this topic of celebrating Jesus' birth. Let us all be charitable with one another as we each allow the Holy Spirit to work His will in us.
And to end this, I will say that I wish everyone here a very blessed and joyful celebration of the coming of Jesus' as a babe and the astounding truth that at His birth He was "God with us" and will always be "God with us."
Just as God was faithful to fulfill His promises and prophecies concerning Jesus in His first advent, we can be sure He will fulfill all of His promises and prophecies concerning His future second advent to bring all things to completion and eternal fulfillment. Whereas those who lived before Jesus' first advent and were waiting for the Messiah to arrive, we, who live after His first coming, await His second advent with enlightened by the good news we find in the Scriptures and are filled with hope that He will do just as He said He would do and we are know how we can prepare ourselves to be ready for His return. Those in the Old Testament did not have these helps. We are very blessed to live after Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection. We today have the witness of all of those who have gone before us who kept the faith in severe trials, tribulations, deprivation, and even martyrdom to teach us to persevere in faith until the end.
So, yes, I celebrate Christmas. I was reading up on the history of the celebration of Jesus' birth in the Church. Although many people seem to think that Christmas is based on pagan rituals of the 4th century, the reality is that the church did have Mary wit them in the 1st century to inform the apostles of Jesus' birth and childhood and the miracles associated with Him. Hippolytus, I believe, lived in the 2nd century into 3rd. In the the 220's Hippolytus taught that Jesus' birthday was December 25th based on Scripture and historical data he had at the time. This was not based on the celebration of Sol Invictus, or Saturnalia as these festivals were not celebrated in the Roman world at this early time. Therefore, it seems that the date of December 25th was calculated on the known fact that Jesus was killed on March 25th and Hippolytus believed that Jesus was most likely conceived at this time of year 30 or so years earlier and was born 9 months later, near December 25th.
These Israelites were in the dark as much as the Gentiles. All the nations were covered in darkness and even when Jesus arrived and brought the light of life into the world, many drew back from His light preferring the darkness of sin to the exposure of their sin to lead them to desire salvation. I think it is very hard for us to truly imagine what the world was like then with all the generations of man going back to Adam and Eve, and at the time of the flood, and after the flood when those who followed God did so because God called them (Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, the prophets). The rest of humanity was turned away from God completely.
Ever since Jesus was born, lived, died and rose for us, the light that comes from God, that is spiritually rather than physically, has shone out into this sin ravaged, sin enslaved world transforming the elect one by one through the work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating, giving the us the ability to believe and the desire to believe in Jesus as we hear the Gospel truth. All these 20 centuries since Jesus' birth, the world has been enlightened by the truth and hope of the Gospel ever-increasingly to the point that at this time we probably live in the most Christianized humanity of all the prior centuries combined. The impact of the believing Church in our own microcosm of our family and friends, community, city and out into the macrocosm of the entire world.
I was thinking about the wisdom of God's choice to elect before all time every person He would bring to faith. These elect are from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation in all generations. How important it is to spread the Good News of the coming of our Savior and King so that we can reach every one of our brothers and sisters to-be.
I come from a tradition that celebrates advent season which not only focuses on the birth of Jesus in His first advent, but looks forward to His second advent at the end of this age. see Pt. 4
He knew ALL that would happen to Himself ahead of time (since before creation). He knew all that would be said to Him, about Him, and all the actions that would be taken against Him. He knew that death would be so very painful and that taking upon Himself the wrath of God for us when He took our sins upon Himself. But knowing all of this, He steadfastly stepped out of the garden knowing He would be arrested right away and then the sequence of events leading to His death was began in real time.
The gold and silver ornaments remind of how worthy He is above all that is considered physically precious and valuable in this world to receive all glory honor and praise. These also remind me that He is my treasure in this life and in the life to come and that He has laid up an incorruptible inheritance for me in heaven that will be above and beyond what I could ever ask for or imagine.
Last week as I was listening to Christmas hymns and songs on the radio as I was traveling I was rejoicing that so many who have not yet come to Jesus in faith will hear the gospel truths in these songs and hear the singers praising the Lord over and over again. How wonderful is that? I love singing these songs and worshipping the Lord through them. They are a great unifier of believers in the church.
And at that time I also thought about what the world was like prior to His birth. It was dark with evil and the shroud of sin that blinded all the nations to the glory and promise of God. Even the Jews were on the whole not right with God. There were a few who were ready and looking for the Messiah, knowing the promises and prophecies that pointed them to their lifetime for the Messiah to come into the world to bring salvation. I think of Mary and Joseph, their parents, Elizabeth and Zechariah, John the Baptist, Anna and Simeon in the temple. I am sure there were many others in Judea. But the other tribes of Israel were estranged from God, having been scattered among the nations.
Just wanted to chime in on the discussion on Christmas,
I agree with T-Rex, that Christmas offers and excellent window for the truth of Jesus' miraculous birth and His incarnation into humanity. His birth is the most important, glorious, world changing, profound birthday of all history. His birth is the fulfillment of God's promises and prophecies given in the Old Testament since Adam and Eve sinned. I love to celebrate Him at this time of year and the marvel of His birth.
I can remember way back to when I was very young how much I loved Christmas mostly because it tells of Jesus. I remember the readings of His birth in Luke and Matthew in church every year at Christmas. I remember the church bells ringing throughout the day reminding us of the joy of His birth. I remember re-enacting the Nativity with my siblings that we performed for our grandparents each year. My childhood was steeped in focusing on Jesus for the Christmas (Advent) season every year.
Not every Christian abandons the proclamation and celebration of the birth of our Savior at Christmas. My husband and I made a conscious effort every year to steep our sons in the Scriptural truth of "God with us" in Jesus. We downplayed all the trappings without eliminating all of it. We tried to make the time a time of celebration for our family. We do have a tree and my sons still come over to pick one out and decorate it. The tree has so much meaning for me. It is not an idol by any means. I do not bow down to it or worship it or think of it as any type of 'god".
But it reminds me of so many aspects of Jesus. The evergreen reminds me of eternal life we receive from Jesus. The lights remind me of how Jesus is the light of the world that shown into a dark, dark world filled with sin and despair. I have red glass ornaments in the shape of a teardrop and these remind me of the blood Jesus shed for me and the drops of blood He sweat in Gethsemane when He was facing the crucifixion. see Pt. 2
Shall we continue? Previously, I explained Verse 1:1, and now we go to Verse 1:2.
It is in Rev. 1:2 that John explains that he wrote The Gospel According to John. Here is verse 1:2 in chiasmus form:
Who bare record of the word of God,
.....and of the testimony of Jesus Christ,
and of all things that he saw.
The verse structure reveals:
The Word of God, John 1:1-5
.....The Testimony of Jesus Christ, John 21:21-24
Everything between Verses 1:1-5 and Verses 21:21-24
The "testimony of Jesus Christ" is a phrase which is used metaphorically twice in The Book of Revelation, as I recall; once at Rev. 1:9, and secondly at Rev. 19:10. Also, the Savior's literal testimony for The Book of Revelation is stated in the last chapter at Rev. 22:7-20.
So the phrase has both the metaphorical and literal applications.
Additonally, Rev. 1:2 not only establishes the structure of The Gospel According to John, but also that of The Book of Revelation, as follows:
Chapter One shows The Word of God in the vision of the Savior at Rev. 1:12-17
.....Chapter Twenty-Two shows The Testimony of Jesus Christ in Rev. 22:7-20
And Chapters Two through Twenty-One shows all the things that John saw.
Thank you for your comment, and I will try to explain my interpretation more carefully.
In the introduction of The Book of Revelation, the Father gave the revelation to Jesus as stated in Rev. 1:1.
In the storyline of The Book of Revelation, the Father gave the book with the seven seals attached, to the Savior in Rev. 5:7.
The Father giving the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 1:1) and the Father giving the book with the seven seals attached to Jesus ( Rev. 5:7) are the same event.
In the first case, the event is summarized in the "thesis of the book". And in the second case, the event is stated in the "first storyline" that I call the seals storyline.
Secondly, as stated in the thesis of the book, Chapter One, the Savior gave the revelation to the angel to show to John ( Rev. 1:1).
Next, in the first storyline of the book, John begins to view the seven seals at Rev. 6:1-2, where he views the first seal. Since the angel is tasked with showing John the revelation ( Rev. 1:1), and the beast shows the first seal to John ( Rev. 6:1-2), then the angel is called the beast in Rev. 6:1.
Since the first event is, that the Father gives power and authority to Jesus over the book and the seven seals ( Rev. 5:7). And, the seals were opened before this event in Rev. 5:5. Then, the opening of the seals is included in the revelation that is the seals. Therefore, the first event of the seven seals is the Father giving power and authority to Jesus as metaphorically shown in Rev. 6:2, where the Savior rides upon the power and authority of the Father.
I realize that this is not a traditional interpretation of The Book of Revelation, but it is correct.
Christmas has Christ literally in the holiday name and it's the only Christian holiday but a few seem so upset about it. Conflating Jesus's birth with negative stuff you watch on TV while assuming that's everyone's experience is a false assumption. Assuming it is one hundred percent bad for everyone in all aspects is a fallacy. People are singing songs and worshipping Jesus in a rare moment around the world and you seem focused on the bad instead of the good. Isn't that role like the Grinch or Scrooge character in one of those movies. Some want to take what little celebration we have about Jesus away and hidden, but is that truly what Jesus would do? No. Remember how Judas complained about the woman wasting the perfume on Jesus's feet and Jesus's response? Jesus did other radical things too like dining at a 'sinners' house while people in the same manner made negative accusations about it. These are related and the cynical Pharisee mindset is related.
Maybe where you live one of your neighbors is bad and did bad things so should you burn your house down and denounce that neighborhood, city, or country, because bad things were done. Then people can say things like your neighborhood never was good and you can't put good back into such an evil house or negative place. Evil sins probably even occurred where you live so how can it ever be safe to live there ever again.
--The origins of Christmas can be traced back to the ancient Roman and Norse civilizations. In fact, 25th December was not even Jesus' date of birth. The early Christians appropriated what was originally a pagan holiday because it was convenient. Before that, the people of ancient Europe had celebrations of the pagan god Saturn or even Odin at the end of December to mark the shortest day of the year. Indeed, many of the Christmas traditions we have today come from these ancient festivals. Examples of this include kissing under the mistletoe and decorating trees.
----History Cooperative: The Pagan Origins of Christmas: Saturnalia, Yule, and Other Pre-Christian Traditions
(In the above read "early Christians" as Roman Catholic, and those that fail to fully break away from them.)
82% of those identifying as born-again Christian believe Christ Jesus even existed. According to the Cultural Research Center of Arizona University. I am sure most of the 18% that do not celebrate Xmas. It is way past time that the true believers (those that believe Jesus was the virgin-born Son of God, that he died for the sins of the world, was buried, and rose again the third day) quit being lukewarm ( Rev 3:15-16), study God's word, adhere to it precisely, and make manifest the CINOs (Christian in Name Only) to the world.
-- Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
As stated prior to this post, each individual saint must decide how important their salvation is.
-- Philippians 2:12 WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
How many are lost because we want the comfort of looking and acting like the deceivers of this world?
Till we meet at the Judgment Seat of Christ. ( 2Co 5:10, 1Co 3:11-15)
It is for each individual believer to direct their hearts to the obedience of God's word.
Xmas is not a cultural phenomenon; it is adding to the word of God Rev 22:18-19, which is one big No-No, it is strange fire.
-- Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and OFFERED STRANGE FIRE BEFORE THE LORD, WHICH HE COMMANDED THEM NOT.
Not only is it something the Lord did not command us to do, He specifically instructed us not to, Jer 10:1-8, that is how big a No-No it is.
One often neglected truth is that the believers all have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and give an account of their saved lives, 2Cor 10 & 1Cor 3:11-15. Many rewards shall be lost over the observance and poisoning the minds of our children over Xmas.
Xmas' pagan origins, its commercial value to the world, and the fact that even the enemies of Christ celebrate it, are all indisputable facts.
(For the US, the November-December holiday season (Black Friday thru Christmas) is expected to drive over one trillion dollars in retail sales this year, the first time ever hitting that mark. That is roughly twenty percent of the entire year's retail spending crammed into two months, and since consumer spending fuels about seventy percent of GDP, it gives the economy a solid multi-trillion-dollar jolt overall.)
You cannot put Christ back into something He was never in. The Lord Jesus Christ has no part, nor should we have in the pagan rite of Xmas. Xmas isn't harmless fluff. It is straight idolatry, dressed in bows.
But, each to his own.
-- Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
-- Gal 4:10-11 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Hello Lydia- I don't agree with the other commenter. Believers in Bible days absolutely celebrated Jesus's birth- followed the star to Bethlehem, brought gifts, worshipped Jesus, and you can read all about it in the Bible. I must ask: Christians are attacked around the world for their beliefs because they follow Jesus and the 1 holiday they get where non-believers actually get exposed to the gospel and who is pushing to take it away the most? And is that push come from God or satan? You actually have people around the world singing about Jesus and Jesus followers actually want to take that away? Even if they don't know what it means or gets distorted how is that bad- and what is suggested as being better- singing about worldly things is somehow better? Did they complain as much during the pride month and other events or only Christmas is most offensive to them.
Humans are corrupt and you can find corruption everywhere, but just because a few people elevate and worship santa claus on the same day does not mean that celebrating Jesus is bad. What's wrong with celebrating a birth day even if we can't 100% prove when it is. Just because some get focused on commercial stuff doesn't mean we should stop talking about Jesus. It's insane to think how easy Christians want to roll over and give up because of a false association.
Check out on YouTube Wes Huff video called Christmas isn't pagan and here's why.
Is Revelation 6:2 referring to the Second Coming of Christ?
In Revelation 19:11-15, we are given the vision of the second coming of Christ. The Key Verses are Psalm 45:3-4, Psalm 96:13, and Isaiah 11:4.
In Revelation Chapter 19, we see that when Christ returns at His Second Coming, He will be riding a white horse. Chapter 19 also tells us that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS.
If we go back to Revelation 6:2, we also see a white horse. Some see "white horse", and they connect this with the white horse in Revelation Chapter 19 and believe this is Jesus riding this horse in both places, Chapters 6 and 19. But is the rider the same in both places?
In Chapter 19, I do believe that the rider on the white horse is Jesus. But in Chapter 6, the rider is not referring to Jesus. It is the representation of the antichrist, the false messiah who will come.
The only thing the same in both places is the white horse and this can mislead us into thinking this is Jesus because we know He will return on a white horse. But in Chapter 6, it is not Jesus. I say this because of the differences I see between Chapters 6 and 19. I will share these differences in a second post as I am unable to fit this into a single post.
Here are the differences I see that cause me to come to this conclusion:
In Chapter 6, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow (TOXON). In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword (RHOMPHAIA), not a bow. In Chapter 6, it says a crown (Singular) was given to this one. And the word for crown in Chapter 6 is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS. It is not the crown Christ will be wearing. Jesus will not be wearing a wreath. He will be wearing a royal crown, a DIADEM.
In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS, and the word for crown is DIADEM, the royal crown. It is not a STEPHANOS, the wreath that the false messiah will be wearing.
In Chapter 6, it says this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system. Also, another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until Revelation Chapter 19.
So, this one riding on a white horse in Revelation 6:2 with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS which is a wreath, not a DIADEM, the royal crown that Christ will be wearing. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said would come first.
Hopefully this might be helpful to some. I was one who used to believe that the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 was Jesus. But after comparing the differences using the original text, I no longer see these two places referring to the Second Coming of Christ, but one referring to the false Messiah ( Revelation 6:2), and the other ( Revelation 19:11-15) referring to our Savior Jesus Christ coming wearing a royal crown and with a sword. Not a wreath, not a bow!
Nowhere in the Bible is Xmas condoned, just the opposite.
--Are we told to recognize Christ's birthday?-No.
--Is Christ's birthday within a month either way of December 25th?-No.
--Were shepherds in the field at night in December?-No.
--Were there three wise men?- No, the Bible does not say how many.
--Were the wise men in the stable, did they see the baby in the manger?- No, they showed up two years later;
----that is why Herod had all the children two years old and younger killed.
--Is the Christmas tree in any way associated with Christ?-No, in fact, we are told in no uncertain terms not to have one.
--Is there a Santa Claus?-No, what would he have to do with Christ?
--Are there flying reindeer?- No.
--Are there elves?-No.
If we tell our children all these lies, how do we expect them to suddenly believe that Jesus is real and not just another Santa? We must worship God in, "spirit and in truth". There is no truth in Xmas. Is that the way to raise your children, lie to them.
-- 1 John 2:21 no lie is of the truth.
In Jer 10:2-8, 600+ years before Christ, we are told that the heathen have a rite where they put up a tree and do all the things done at Xmass with it. We are told not to learn their ways is so doing. Is this not a similitude of what we are not supposed to do? Will you feel comfortable standing before the judgment seat of Christ excusing your participation.
-- Jer 10:2-8 Thus saith the LORD, LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3For THE CUSTOMS OF THE PEOPLE ARE VAIN: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 8But THEY ARE ALTOGETHER BRUTISH AND FOOLISH:
Christmas = Christ Mass, brought in as one of the corruptions of the Roman Church.
This is important, and you should study it to deepen your understanding. The Trinity is a core doctrine that many churches consider essential to their faith. For some, salvation depends on this doctrine, and denying the Trinity is considered heresy.
The Trinity is a doctrine about the nature of God that explains one God existing in three coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three are distinct persons but share one essence, substance, or nature. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Father is not the Holy Spirit. All three are fully God.
You can study church history to see how this doctrine developed. The Apostles' Creed was first, and over the next few centuries, ecumenical councils confirmed the doctrine called the Trinity. Debates included topics such as Jesus' nature, whether Jesus could be divine without being God, whether Jesus was created, at the council in AD 451, the Hypostatic Union, one person with two natures, 100 percent divine, 100 percent human. Various other debates occurred during the first five centuries.
I hope this will help your study. May the Holy Spirit guide you, and your questions be answered.
Since the angel (beast) instructs John in Rev. 6:1, and the angel (elder) instructs John in Rev. 5:2-5, then the Father of Rev. 5:1
is represented as the white horse in Rev. 6:2, and the Savior of Rev. 5:7 is represented as the rider in Rev. 6:2
These metaphorical representations are clear in Rev. 19:11,
where the rider of the white horse is Jesus, and the power that Jesus rides upon is the Father. From this position of power, the Savior goes forth to conquer ( Rev. 19:12-21).
The bow in the Savior's hand in Rev. 6:2 is the sword in Rev. 19:21. It is the weapon by which he goes forth to conquer and is stated in Rev. 19:15
. This is the same weapon that John saw in the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:16.
It follows that the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:13-16
is a vision of the Savior prepared to go forth to conquer ( Rev. 6:2). And Rev. 19:12-21 shows the Savior conquering the beast and the false prophet.
The beast and the false prophet are called death and hell in Rev. 6:8
. The Savior gave John the keys of authority over hell and death in Rev. 1:18
. Since John was given authority over death and hell and the beast and false prophet are called death and hell, and they are conquered in Rev. 19:20-21, then John is the sword by which the Savior conquers also called a bow in Rev. 6:2.
Therefore, The Book of Revelation is a book about the Savior going forth to conquer the beast and false prophet. Since John was given the keys over these two individuals in Rev. 1:17, then the book that John has written is about himself in this role as the Savior's weapon against the beast and false prophet. And this is the revelation to be shared with the servants ( Rev. 1:1)!!!!
There could be a lot of mountains in your life, like the mountain is covered with ice. But there are spiritual mountains. Mountains black the way of something. You can be trying to get to God, with a mountain of sin in your way. God wants to help you move that mountain of sin out of your way. So you can come to him! And not perish, but have eternal life! God loves you so much more than you can imagine! The Lord has much more in store for you than just being at home doing nothing. Chapter 2 songs here's some songs I've memorized way maker, Jesus loves you. Well I should be ending part 1 on this book I'll see you next time with part 2 which I'll see you next time which is part 2 see you soon bye
1) We begin in Chapter One of The Book of Revelation, where John hears the Savior speaking from behind ( Rev. 1:10).
2) The Savior instructs John to write to the seven churches ( Rev. 1:11).
3) John turns to see the Savior but sees the seven churches ( Rev. 1:12).
4) In the middle of the seven churches is the Savior ( Rev. 1:13).
5) John describes the Savior's appearance ( Rev. 1:13-16).
6) After seeing the Savior, John fell at his feet. Then Jesus instructs John not to fear ( Rev. 1:17).
7) The Savior gives John the keys of authority over hell and death ( Rev. 1:18).
8) Jesus instructs John to write things which he has seen, things which are, and things which will be hereafter ( Rev. 1:19).
9) Jesus explains two metaphors, which are the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks ( Rev. 1:20).
10) John writes items 1 through 9, which are the "things he has seen."
11) John writes the "things which are" as the Savior speaks to the seven churches in Chapters Two and Three.
12) And John writes the "things which shall be hereafter" in Chapter Four.
From this, you can see that Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 are the introduction to The Book of Revelation in its most basic form. Additionally, Chapter Five begins the revelation.
13) The Father is on the throne and gives the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 5:1, Rev. 5:7).
14) The Father instructs that the revelation is to be given to the servants. And Jesus instructs his angel to show the revelation to John to show to the servants ( Rev. 1:1).
15) John stipulates that he wrote The Gospel According to John ( Rev. 1:2)
16) John blesses those who can read The Book of Revelation and those who can hear. That they will keep and abide by the things written herein ( Rev. 1:3).
17) John states the greetings to the seven churches ( Rev. 1:4-7).
18) Jesus states his divine authority ( Rev. 1:8).
As shown in Rev. 1:1, the angel is given a task with showing the revelation to John, and this begins in Rev. 6:1.
In this verse, the angel is called a beast. The changes in names throughout the revelation, help to seal the book. So, the angel of Verse 1:1 is called the beast in Verse 6:1. This is easy to see because anytime that John is shown something, then it is the angel of Verse 1:1 who was given this job.
The seals are the revelation. That is, the book having seven seals attached to it is the book having the revelation attached to it ( Rev. 5:1). The Father gave the book with the seals attached to it, to Jesus ( Rev. 5:7). Therefore, the Father gave the book with the revelation attached to it, to Jesus. Thus, the Father gave the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 1:1).
Oh I almost forgot you have to make a title for your book. ask me for some advice.
Since the angel (beast) instructs John in Rev. 6:1, and the angel (elder) instructs John in Rev. 5:2-5, then the Father of Rev. 5:1 is represented as the white horse in Rev. 6:2, and the Savior of Rev. 5:7 is represented as the rider in Rev. 6:2.
These metaphorical representations are clear in Rev. 19:11, where the rider of the white horse is Jesus, and the power that Jesus rides upon is the Father. From this position of power, the Savior goes forth to conquer ( Rev. 19:12-21).
The bow in the Savior's hand in Rev. 6:2 is the sword in Rev. 19:21. It is the weapon by which he goes forth to conquer and is stated in Rev. 19:15. This is the same weapon that John saw in the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:16.
It follows that the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:13-16 is a vision of the Savior prepared to go forth to conquer ( Rev. 6:2). And Rev. 19:12-21 shows the Savior conquering the beast and the false prophet.
The beast and the false prophet are called death and hell in Rev. 6:8. The Savior gave John the keys of authority over hell and death in Rev. 1:18. Since John was given authority over death and hell and the beast and false prophet are called death and hell, and they are conquered in Rev. 19:20-21, then John is the sword by which the Savior conquers also called a bow in Rev. 6:2.
Therefore, The Book of Revelation is a book about the Savior going forth to conquer the beast and false prophet. Since John was given the keys over these two individuals in Rev. 1:17, then the book that John has written is about himself in this role as the Savior's weapon against the beast and false prophet. And this is the revelation to be shared with the servants ( Rev. 1:1).
Now that we have the background out of the way then we can go to the revelation. As shown in Rev. 1:1, the angel is tasked with showing the revelation to John, and this begins in Rev. 6:1.
In this verse, the angel is called a beast. The changes in names throughout the revelation, help to seal the book. So, the angel of Verse 1:1 is called the beast in Verse 6:1. This is easy to see because anytime that John is shown something, then it is the angel of Verse 1:1 who was tasked with this job.
The seals are the revelation. That is, the book having seven seals attached is the book having the revelation attached ( Rev. 5:1). The Father gave the book with the seals attached to Jesus ( Rev. 5:7). Therefore, the Father gave the book with the revelation attached to Jesus. Thus, the Father gave the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 1:1).
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this subject and now I know more of your upbringing.
I think in every believer's life there are specific things and practices that remind us of spiritual truths. These things I have mentioned do just that.
In reading the OT God instituted many practices and utilized objects within the tabernacle that were reminders of truths to the Israelites. I think of the golden lampstand, the table with show bread on it, the mercy seat, the priestly garments, etc. that reminded them of God's holiness and also pointed forward to Jesus so that the Jews of His day and all who read the New Testament, especially the book of Hebrews, can come to understand how these objects and practices were a foreshadowing of Who the Messiah is and what He will do/did.
And at the Last Supper, Jesus used bread and wine to symbolize the New Covenant that advented with His death and resurrection. Whenever we celebrate the Lord's Supper we commemorate this covenant and remember His saving work for us.
Got to go. Rosie is up and running.
"Birth of Jesus" discussion?
Just wanted to share this with everyone here as well as those who hear about this site.
I only have been here a few years. The reason that I joined this group is because of the genuine spirit of Christ Jesus I enjoyed as I read the comments discussing God and God's SON
and His Spirit that dwells in mankind. Do we still share that SPIRIT?
I am glad I was raised from a child to believe in Jesus.
I am glad he was born.
I am glad he saved me.
I am glad a day has been set aside to celebrate His Birth.
I am glad to honor God, the Father,
for giving his son's life for me.
I am not ashamed to say so. "Let the redeemed of the Lord so."
From the way I hear the discussion going is this way. Some are celebrating because of a personal relationship. Some according to traditions. Some for other reasons also. Let us be careful to not confuse the Spiritual with the Carnal. " We worship God in Spirit and TRUTH." The World has a different concept.
It seems like the question is this.
Do you think he deserves to be celebrated at all?
I'm trying to
"see" with my eyes.
"Hear" with my ears and "understand" with my heart,
"Let the words
of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight oh Lord, my strength and my redeemer."
God bless us all.
Here is Rev. 1:6 in chiasmus form:
"And hath made us kings and priests
.....unto God and his Father;
to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
This verse is easy to see and follows that:
Jesus has made his servants kings and priests that reign on the earth ( Rev. 5:10) as "kings of the earth" ( Rev. 1:5).
.....Jesus has made these servants kings and priests to God his Father.
To Jesus be glory and dominion for ever and ever Amen.
As you can see, Verse 1:6 is a great closing verse for the 3, 4, 5 verse series.
For me, the KJV is perfect for reading the metaphors and metaphorical phrases.
We are at Rev. 1:5, which is the center of the Verse 4, 5, 6 series. Here is the verse in its chiasmus form:
a) And from Jesus Christ,
...b) who is the faithful witness,
......c) and the first begotten of the dead,
.........d) and the prince of the kings of the earth.
......c) Unto him that loved us,
...b) and washed us from our sins
a) in his own blood,
Previously, I explained that chiasmi read from left to right to the center, and then right to left to the end. But, they also read from top to bottom in the series, a, b, c, d, etc.
And it is that center which is the focus of the chiasmus. It follows that the center and focus of Rev. 1:5 is that Jesus is the prince of the kings of the earth.
There is much more to this verse. Especially, where the first verse of this series, Rev. 1:4, references a connection coming from the hereafter chapter, Chapter Four. But it is that center which highlights the metaphorical phrase "kings of the earth."
And that these "kings of the earth" are in that position "unto him that loved us." That is, they are kings unto their King, Lord Jesus ( Rev. 17:14), who loved them and washed them from their sins in his blood.
Rev. 1:5 is powerful and well deserving of holding the central position in the 3, 4, 5 series. The highlight of which is that the Savior is the prince (King) over "the kings of the earth." A metaphorical phrase used throughout The Book of Revelation to reference the Savior's servants.
-- 1co 2:15 but he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
- 1co 6:3 know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?-
-- 1co 6:2 do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
-- 1co 6:5 i speak to your shame. is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
-- 1co 5:3 for i verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though i were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
-- 1co 14:29 let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
-- luk 12:57 yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
-- mat 7:1-2 judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
---- joh 7:24 judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
judge righteously and you will be righteously judged.
-- 1co 11:31 for if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
-- 1co 10:15 i speak as to wise men; judge ye what i say.
judge what i say, but judge it according to and by god's word.
It seems that many church leaders at that time in history thought that many holy persons were conceived and died on the same day of the year only years apart. This was Hippolytus' thinking. If there was a tradition that came from Mary as to the date of Jesus birth, that may have played into this, too. But I am not aware of anything that was recorded of Mary's contribution to the knowledge concerning Jesus' birth day, childhood, etc. I would think that there was most likely an oral tradition known by the apostles and disciples in those early times.
We do have Mary's contribution to the Gospel writers Luke and Matthew as each of these begin with the annunciation and birth of Jesus. Regardless of whether Hippolytus was correct or not in setting Dec. 25 as Jesus' birth day, His birth is worthy of being celebrated and we have no prohibition in Scripture to not celebrate it. It does seem that historically the pagan celebrations in December came later than what Hippolytus introduced as the day of Jesus' birth.
With all this said, I do know that Paul instructs us to utilize the liberty we have in Christ whether to celebrate certain holy days, events, etc. or not to do so. He says each believer is to act according to their own conscience which the Holy Spirit renews in believers, and not let our exercise of Christian liberty bring another believer to stumble. These directives from Paul in Scripture should be our guide in matters such as this topic of celebrating Jesus' birth. Let us all be charitable with one another as we each allow the Holy Spirit to work His will in us.
And to end this, I will say that I wish everyone here a very blessed and joyful celebration of the coming of Jesus' as a babe and the astounding truth that at His birth He was "God with us" and will always be "God with us."
Just as God was faithful to fulfill His promises and prophecies concerning Jesus in His first advent, we can be sure He will fulfill all of His promises and prophecies concerning His future second advent to bring all things to completion and eternal fulfillment. Whereas those who lived before Jesus' first advent and were waiting for the Messiah to arrive, we, who live after His first coming, await His second advent with enlightened by the good news we find in the Scriptures and are filled with hope that He will do just as He said He would do and we are know how we can prepare ourselves to be ready for His return. Those in the Old Testament did not have these helps. We are very blessed to live after Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection. We today have the witness of all of those who have gone before us who kept the faith in severe trials, tribulations, deprivation, and even martyrdom to teach us to persevere in faith until the end.
So, yes, I celebrate Christmas. I was reading up on the history of the celebration of Jesus' birth in the Church. Although many people seem to think that Christmas is based on pagan rituals of the 4th century, the reality is that the church did have Mary wit them in the 1st century to inform the apostles of Jesus' birth and childhood and the miracles associated with Him. Hippolytus, I believe, lived in the 2nd century into 3rd. In the the 220's Hippolytus taught that Jesus' birthday was December 25th based on Scripture and historical data he had at the time. This was not based on the celebration of Sol Invictus, or Saturnalia as these festivals were not celebrated in the Roman world at this early time. Therefore, it seems that the date of December 25th was calculated on the known fact that Jesus was killed on March 25th and Hippolytus believed that Jesus was most likely conceived at this time of year 30 or so years earlier and was born 9 months later, near December 25th.
see Pt. 5
These Israelites were in the dark as much as the Gentiles. All the nations were covered in darkness and even when Jesus arrived and brought the light of life into the world, many drew back from His light preferring the darkness of sin to the exposure of their sin to lead them to desire salvation. I think it is very hard for us to truly imagine what the world was like then with all the generations of man going back to Adam and Eve, and at the time of the flood, and after the flood when those who followed God did so because God called them (Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, the prophets). The rest of humanity was turned away from God completely.
Ever since Jesus was born, lived, died and rose for us, the light that comes from God, that is spiritually rather than physically, has shone out into this sin ravaged, sin enslaved world transforming the elect one by one through the work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating, giving the us the ability to believe and the desire to believe in Jesus as we hear the Gospel truth. All these 20 centuries since Jesus' birth, the world has been enlightened by the truth and hope of the Gospel ever-increasingly to the point that at this time we probably live in the most Christianized humanity of all the prior centuries combined. The impact of the believing Church in our own microcosm of our family and friends, community, city and out into the macrocosm of the entire world.
I was thinking about the wisdom of God's choice to elect before all time every person He would bring to faith. These elect are from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation in all generations. How important it is to spread the Good News of the coming of our Savior and King so that we can reach every one of our brothers and sisters to-be.
I come from a tradition that celebrates advent season which not only focuses on the birth of Jesus in His first advent, but looks forward to His second advent at the end of this age. see Pt. 4
He knew ALL that would happen to Himself ahead of time (since before creation). He knew all that would be said to Him, about Him, and all the actions that would be taken against Him. He knew that death would be so very painful and that taking upon Himself the wrath of God for us when He took our sins upon Himself. But knowing all of this, He steadfastly stepped out of the garden knowing He would be arrested right away and then the sequence of events leading to His death was began in real time.
The gold and silver ornaments remind of how worthy He is above all that is considered physically precious and valuable in this world to receive all glory honor and praise. These also remind me that He is my treasure in this life and in the life to come and that He has laid up an incorruptible inheritance for me in heaven that will be above and beyond what I could ever ask for or imagine.
Last week as I was listening to Christmas hymns and songs on the radio as I was traveling I was rejoicing that so many who have not yet come to Jesus in faith will hear the gospel truths in these songs and hear the singers praising the Lord over and over again. How wonderful is that? I love singing these songs and worshipping the Lord through them. They are a great unifier of believers in the church.
And at that time I also thought about what the world was like prior to His birth. It was dark with evil and the shroud of sin that blinded all the nations to the glory and promise of God. Even the Jews were on the whole not right with God. There were a few who were ready and looking for the Messiah, knowing the promises and prophecies that pointed them to their lifetime for the Messiah to come into the world to bring salvation. I think of Mary and Joseph, their parents, Elizabeth and Zechariah, John the Baptist, Anna and Simeon in the temple. I am sure there were many others in Judea. But the other tribes of Israel were estranged from God, having been scattered among the nations.
I agree with T-Rex, that Christmas offers and excellent window for the truth of Jesus' miraculous birth and His incarnation into humanity. His birth is the most important, glorious, world changing, profound birthday of all history. His birth is the fulfillment of God's promises and prophecies given in the Old Testament since Adam and Eve sinned. I love to celebrate Him at this time of year and the marvel of His birth.
I can remember way back to when I was very young how much I loved Christmas mostly because it tells of Jesus. I remember the readings of His birth in Luke and Matthew in church every year at Christmas. I remember the church bells ringing throughout the day reminding us of the joy of His birth. I remember re-enacting the Nativity with my siblings that we performed for our grandparents each year. My childhood was steeped in focusing on Jesus for the Christmas (Advent) season every year.
Not every Christian abandons the proclamation and celebration of the birth of our Savior at Christmas. My husband and I made a conscious effort every year to steep our sons in the Scriptural truth of "God with us" in Jesus. We downplayed all the trappings without eliminating all of it. We tried to make the time a time of celebration for our family. We do have a tree and my sons still come over to pick one out and decorate it. The tree has so much meaning for me. It is not an idol by any means. I do not bow down to it or worship it or think of it as any type of 'god".
But it reminds me of so many aspects of Jesus. The evergreen reminds me of eternal life we receive from Jesus. The lights remind me of how Jesus is the light of the world that shown into a dark, dark world filled with sin and despair. I have red glass ornaments in the shape of a teardrop and these remind me of the blood Jesus shed for me and the drops of blood He sweat in Gethsemane when He was facing the crucifixion. see Pt. 2
Shall we continue? Previously, I explained Verse 1:1, and now we go to Verse 1:2.
It is in Rev. 1:2 that John explains that he wrote The Gospel According to John. Here is verse 1:2 in chiasmus form:
Who bare record of the word of God,
.....and of the testimony of Jesus Christ,
and of all things that he saw.
The verse structure reveals:
The Word of God, John 1:1-5
.....The Testimony of Jesus Christ, John 21:21-24
Everything between Verses 1:1-5 and Verses 21:21-24
The "testimony of Jesus Christ" is a phrase which is used metaphorically twice in The Book of Revelation, as I recall; once at Rev. 1:9, and secondly at Rev. 19:10. Also, the Savior's literal testimony for The Book of Revelation is stated in the last chapter at Rev. 22:7-20.
So the phrase has both the metaphorical and literal applications.
Additonally, Rev. 1:2 not only establishes the structure of The Gospel According to John, but also that of The Book of Revelation, as follows:
Chapter One shows The Word of God in the vision of the Savior at Rev. 1:12-17
.....Chapter Twenty-Two shows The Testimony of Jesus Christ in Rev. 22:7-20
And Chapters Two through Twenty-One shows all the things that John saw.
Thank you for your comment, and I will try to explain my interpretation more carefully.
In the introduction of The Book of Revelation, the Father gave the revelation to Jesus as stated in Rev. 1:1.
In the storyline of The Book of Revelation, the Father gave the book with the seven seals attached, to the Savior in Rev. 5:7.
The Father giving the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 1:1) and the Father giving the book with the seven seals attached to Jesus ( Rev. 5:7) are the same event.
In the first case, the event is summarized in the "thesis of the book". And in the second case, the event is stated in the "first storyline" that I call the seals storyline.
Secondly, as stated in the thesis of the book, Chapter One, the Savior gave the revelation to the angel to show to John ( Rev. 1:1).
Next, in the first storyline of the book, John begins to view the seven seals at Rev. 6:1-2, where he views the first seal. Since the angel is tasked with showing John the revelation ( Rev. 1:1), and the beast shows the first seal to John ( Rev. 6:1-2), then the angel is called the beast in Rev. 6:1.
Since the first event is, that the Father gives power and authority to Jesus over the book and the seven seals ( Rev. 5:7). And, the seals were opened before this event in Rev. 5:5. Then, the opening of the seals is included in the revelation that is the seals. Therefore, the first event of the seven seals is the Father giving power and authority to Jesus as metaphorically shown in Rev. 6:2, where the Savior rides upon the power and authority of the Father.
I realize that this is not a traditional interpretation of The Book of Revelation, but it is correct.
Maybe where you live one of your neighbors is bad and did bad things so should you burn your house down and denounce that neighborhood, city, or country, because bad things were done. Then people can say things like your neighborhood never was good and you can't put good back into such an evil house or negative place. Evil sins probably even occurred where you live so how can it ever be safe to live there ever again.
----History Cooperative: The Pagan Origins of Christmas: Saturnalia, Yule, and Other Pre-Christian Traditions
(In the above read "early Christians" as Roman Catholic, and those that fail to fully break away from them.)
82% of those identifying as born-again Christian believe Christ Jesus even existed. According to the Cultural Research Center of Arizona University. I am sure most of the 18% that do not celebrate Xmas. It is way past time that the true believers (those that believe Jesus was the virgin-born Son of God, that he died for the sins of the world, was buried, and rose again the third day) quit being lukewarm ( Rev 3:15-16), study God's word, adhere to it precisely, and make manifest the CINOs (Christian in Name Only) to the world.
-- Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
As stated prior to this post, each individual saint must decide how important their salvation is.
-- Philippians 2:12 WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
How many are lost because we want the comfort of looking and acting like the deceivers of this world?
Till we meet at the Judgment Seat of Christ. ( 2Co 5:10, 1Co 3:11-15)
Xmas is not a cultural phenomenon; it is adding to the word of God Rev 22:18-19, which is one big No-No, it is strange fire.
-- Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and OFFERED STRANGE FIRE BEFORE THE LORD, WHICH HE COMMANDED THEM NOT.
Not only is it something the Lord did not command us to do, He specifically instructed us not to, Jer 10:1-8, that is how big a No-No it is.
One often neglected truth is that the believers all have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and give an account of their saved lives, 2Cor 10 & 1Cor 3:11-15. Many rewards shall be lost over the observance and poisoning the minds of our children over Xmas.
Xmas' pagan origins, its commercial value to the world, and the fact that even the enemies of Christ celebrate it, are all indisputable facts.
(For the US, the November-December holiday season (Black Friday thru Christmas) is expected to drive over one trillion dollars in retail sales this year, the first time ever hitting that mark. That is roughly twenty percent of the entire year's retail spending crammed into two months, and since consumer spending fuels about seventy percent of GDP, it gives the economy a solid multi-trillion-dollar jolt overall.)
You cannot put Christ back into something He was never in. The Lord Jesus Christ has no part, nor should we have in the pagan rite of Xmas. Xmas isn't harmless fluff. It is straight idolatry, dressed in bows.
But, each to his own.
-- Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
-- Gal 4:10-11 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Whichever shoe fits.
Humans are corrupt and you can find corruption everywhere, but just because a few people elevate and worship santa claus on the same day does not mean that celebrating Jesus is bad. What's wrong with celebrating a birth day even if we can't 100% prove when it is. Just because some get focused on commercial stuff doesn't mean we should stop talking about Jesus. It's insane to think how easy Christians want to roll over and give up because of a false association.
Check out on YouTube Wes Huff video called Christmas isn't pagan and here's why.
(Part 1):
Is Revelation 6:2 referring to the Second Coming of Christ?
In Revelation 19:11-15, we are given the vision of the second coming of Christ. The Key Verses are Psalm 45:3-4, Psalm 96:13, and Isaiah 11:4.
In Revelation Chapter 19, we see that when Christ returns at His Second Coming, He will be riding a white horse. Chapter 19 also tells us that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS.
If we go back to Revelation 6:2, we also see a white horse. Some see "white horse", and they connect this with the white horse in Revelation Chapter 19 and believe this is Jesus riding this horse in both places, Chapters 6 and 19. But is the rider the same in both places?
In Chapter 19, I do believe that the rider on the white horse is Jesus. But in Chapter 6, the rider is not referring to Jesus. It is the representation of the antichrist, the false messiah who will come.
The only thing the same in both places is the white horse and this can mislead us into thinking this is Jesus because we know He will return on a white horse. But in Chapter 6, it is not Jesus. I say this because of the differences I see between Chapters 6 and 19. I will share these differences in a second post as I am unable to fit this into a single post.
(Part 2):
Here are the differences I see that cause me to come to this conclusion:
In Chapter 6, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow (TOXON). In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword (RHOMPHAIA), not a bow. In Chapter 6, it says a crown (Singular) was given to this one. And the word for crown in Chapter 6 is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS. It is not the crown Christ will be wearing. Jesus will not be wearing a wreath. He will be wearing a royal crown, a DIADEM.
In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS, and the word for crown is DIADEM, the royal crown. It is not a STEPHANOS, the wreath that the false messiah will be wearing.
In Chapter 6, it says this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system. Also, another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until Revelation Chapter 19.
So, this one riding on a white horse in Revelation 6:2 with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS which is a wreath, not a DIADEM, the royal crown that Christ will be wearing. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said would come first.
Hopefully this might be helpful to some. I was one who used to believe that the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 was Jesus. But after comparing the differences using the original text, I no longer see these two places referring to the Second Coming of Christ, but one referring to the false Messiah ( Revelation 6:2), and the other ( Revelation 19:11-15) referring to our Savior Jesus Christ coming wearing a royal crown and with a sword. Not a wreath, not a bow!
Blessings in Christ Jesus!
--Are we told to recognize Christ's birthday?-No.
--Is Christ's birthday within a month either way of December 25th?-No.
--Were shepherds in the field at night in December?-No.
--Were there three wise men?- No, the Bible does not say how many.
--Were the wise men in the stable, did they see the baby in the manger?- No, they showed up two years later;
----that is why Herod had all the children two years old and younger killed.
--Is the Christmas tree in any way associated with Christ?-No, in fact, we are told in no uncertain terms not to have one.
--Is there a Santa Claus?-No, what would he have to do with Christ?
--Are there flying reindeer?- No.
--Are there elves?-No.
If we tell our children all these lies, how do we expect them to suddenly believe that Jesus is real and not just another Santa? We must worship God in, "spirit and in truth". There is no truth in Xmas. Is that the way to raise your children, lie to them.
-- 1 John 2:21 no lie is of the truth.
In Jer 10:2-8, 600+ years before Christ, we are told that the heathen have a rite where they put up a tree and do all the things done at Xmass with it. We are told not to learn their ways is so doing. Is this not a similitude of what we are not supposed to do? Will you feel comfortable standing before the judgment seat of Christ excusing your participation.
-- Jer 10:2-8 Thus saith the LORD, LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3For THE CUSTOMS OF THE PEOPLE ARE VAIN: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 8But THEY ARE ALTOGETHER BRUTISH AND FOOLISH:
Christmas = Christ Mass, brought in as one of the corruptions of the Roman Church.
This is important, and you should study it to deepen your understanding. The Trinity is a core doctrine that many churches consider essential to their faith. For some, salvation depends on this doctrine, and denying the Trinity is considered heresy.
The Trinity is a doctrine about the nature of God that explains one God existing in three coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three are distinct persons but share one essence, substance, or nature. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Father is not the Holy Spirit. All three are fully God.
You can study church history to see how this doctrine developed. The Apostles' Creed was first, and over the next few centuries, ecumenical councils confirmed the doctrine called the Trinity. Debates included topics such as Jesus' nature, whether Jesus could be divine without being God, whether Jesus was created, at the council in AD 451, the Hypostatic Union, one person with two natures, 100 percent divine, 100 percent human. Various other debates occurred during the first five centuries.
I hope this will help your study. May the Holy Spirit guide you, and your questions be answered.
God bless,
RLW
is represented as the white horse in Rev. 6:2, and the Savior of Rev. 5:7 is represented as the rider in Rev. 6:2
These metaphorical representations are clear in Rev. 19:11,
where the rider of the white horse is Jesus, and the power that Jesus rides upon is the Father. From this position of power, the Savior goes forth to conquer ( Rev. 19:12-21).
The bow in the Savior's hand in Rev. 6:2 is the sword in Rev. 19:21. It is the weapon by which he goes forth to conquer and is stated in Rev. 19:15
. This is the same weapon that John saw in the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:16.
It follows that the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:13-16
is a vision of the Savior prepared to go forth to conquer ( Rev. 6:2). And Rev. 19:12-21 shows the Savior conquering the beast and the false prophet.
The beast and the false prophet are called death and hell in Rev. 6:8
. The Savior gave John the keys of authority over hell and death in Rev. 1:18
. Since John was given authority over death and hell and the beast and false prophet are called death and hell, and they are conquered in Rev. 19:20-21, then John is the sword by which the Savior conquers also called a bow in Rev. 6:2.
Therefore, The Book of Revelation is a book about the Savior going forth to conquer the beast and false prophet. Since John was given the keys over these two individuals in Rev. 1:17, then the book that John has written is about himself in this role as the Savior's weapon against the beast and false prophet. And this is the revelation to be shared with the servants ( Rev. 1:1)!!!!
business part 2 chapter 1 business.
I have a business I started at age 7 if Jesus had a business what do you think he would do? There are three lines for what you think he would do
if you had a business what would you do?
After that ask Jesus what do you want me to be now that was part 2 you ready for part three speaking of go ahead and hang on yeah come back see you
Part 1. Chapter one. A lot.
There could be a lot of mountains in your life, like the mountain is covered with ice. But there are spiritual mountains. Mountains black the way of something. You can be trying to get to God, with a mountain of sin in your way. God wants to help you move that mountain of sin out of your way. So you can come to him! And not perish, but have eternal life! God loves you so much more than you can imagine! The Lord has much more in store for you than just being at home doing nothing. Chapter 2 songs here's some songs I've memorized way maker, Jesus loves you. Well I should be ending part 1 on this book I'll see you next time with part 2 which I'll see you next time which is part 2 see you soon bye
2) The Savior instructs John to write to the seven churches ( Rev. 1:11).
3) John turns to see the Savior but sees the seven churches ( Rev. 1:12).
4) In the middle of the seven churches is the Savior ( Rev. 1:13).
5) John describes the Savior's appearance ( Rev. 1:13-16).
6) After seeing the Savior, John fell at his feet. Then Jesus instructs John not to fear ( Rev. 1:17).
7) The Savior gives John the keys of authority over hell and death ( Rev. 1:18).
8) Jesus instructs John to write things which he has seen, things which are, and things which will be hereafter ( Rev. 1:19).
9) Jesus explains two metaphors, which are the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks ( Rev. 1:20).
10) John writes items 1 through 9, which are the "things he has seen."
11) John writes the "things which are" as the Savior speaks to the seven churches in Chapters Two and Three.
12) And John writes the "things which shall be hereafter" in Chapter Four.
From this, you can see that Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 are the introduction to The Book of Revelation in its most basic form. Additionally, Chapter Five begins the revelation.
13) The Father is on the throne and gives the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 5:1, Rev. 5:7).
14) The Father instructs that the revelation is to be given to the servants. And Jesus instructs his angel to show the revelation to John to show to the servants ( Rev. 1:1).
15) John stipulates that he wrote The Gospel According to John ( Rev. 1:2)
16) John blesses those who can read The Book of Revelation and those who can hear. That they will keep and abide by the things written herein ( Rev. 1:3).
17) John states the greetings to the seven churches ( Rev. 1:4-7).
18) Jesus states his divine authority ( Rev. 1:8).
19) John states his location ( Rev. 1:9).
In this verse, the angel is called a beast. The changes in names throughout the revelation, help to seal the book. So, the angel of Verse 1:1 is called the beast in Verse 6:1. This is easy to see because anytime that John is shown something, then it is the angel of Verse 1:1 who was given this job.
The seals are the revelation. That is, the book having seven seals attached to it is the book having the revelation attached to it ( Rev. 5:1). The Father gave the book with the seals attached to it, to Jesus ( Rev. 5:7). Therefore, the Father gave the book with the revelation attached to it, to Jesus. Thus, the Father gave the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 1:1).
Oh I almost forgot you have to make a title for your book. ask me for some advice.
Since the angel (beast) instructs John in Rev. 6:1, and the angel (elder) instructs John in Rev. 5:2-5, then the Father of Rev. 5:1 is represented as the white horse in Rev. 6:2, and the Savior of Rev. 5:7 is represented as the rider in Rev. 6:2.
These metaphorical representations are clear in Rev. 19:11, where the rider of the white horse is Jesus, and the power that Jesus rides upon is the Father. From this position of power, the Savior goes forth to conquer ( Rev. 19:12-21).
The bow in the Savior's hand in Rev. 6:2 is the sword in Rev. 19:21. It is the weapon by which he goes forth to conquer and is stated in Rev. 19:15. This is the same weapon that John saw in the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:16.
It follows that the vision of the Savior in Rev. 1:13-16 is a vision of the Savior prepared to go forth to conquer ( Rev. 6:2). And Rev. 19:12-21 shows the Savior conquering the beast and the false prophet.
The beast and the false prophet are called death and hell in Rev. 6:8. The Savior gave John the keys of authority over hell and death in Rev. 1:18. Since John was given authority over death and hell and the beast and false prophet are called death and hell, and they are conquered in Rev. 19:20-21, then John is the sword by which the Savior conquers also called a bow in Rev. 6:2.
Therefore, The Book of Revelation is a book about the Savior going forth to conquer the beast and false prophet. Since John was given the keys over these two individuals in Rev. 1:17, then the book that John has written is about himself in this role as the Savior's weapon against the beast and false prophet. And this is the revelation to be shared with the servants ( Rev. 1:1).
Now that we have the background out of the way then we can go to the revelation. As shown in Rev. 1:1, the angel is tasked with showing the revelation to John, and this begins in Rev. 6:1.
In this verse, the angel is called a beast. The changes in names throughout the revelation, help to seal the book. So, the angel of Verse 1:1 is called the beast in Verse 6:1. This is easy to see because anytime that John is shown something, then it is the angel of Verse 1:1 who was tasked with this job.
The seals are the revelation. That is, the book having seven seals attached is the book having the revelation attached ( Rev. 5:1). The Father gave the book with the seals attached to Jesus ( Rev. 5:7). Therefore, the Father gave the book with the revelation attached to Jesus. Thus, the Father gave the revelation to Jesus ( Rev. 1:1).
West Angeles Cogic Cathedral
Los Angeles California
My Interpetation:
God giving me faith defeating the enemy not meeting adversity. Me trusting God working for me and working in God .Jesus Christ is Father of us All.
God blessing me coming in his assembly to receive from God Doing everything that I ask because Jesus Christ Reigns,
My Interpetation Written and Spoken by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
View All Discussions...
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?