It would seem; with the lines blurring between good and evil (or more precisely; who the friends or the enemy is); today's drone type warfare and proxy wars and the hesitation since Hiroshima and Nagasaki to start a nuclear war (and in the same logic to directly start a large invasion or saturation bombing campaign such as Hitler's "blitzkrieg" which would trigger a nuclear apocalypse; we may not have such a large scale world war until the wars preceding and related to Armageddon. This of course doesn't guarantee this being a logical conclusion; but if wrong it would mean the Lord is going to tarry MUCH longer than it appears today. It would take decades to have any sort of society near "normal" as we see today; and indeed Jesus stated it would be like the times of Noah; or Sodom when destruction comes. ( Matt. 24:37 see also Luke).
In World War 2 itself; but not isolated to that event we saw how the actions of a few may have saved the day. I am not taking the time now to do the research; but I have heard that much prayer happened when England was down to its last plane or last few when being heavily assaulted by the German bombing runs. There were also things that I said in my last post that made the situation worse; namely Roosevelt sending those attempting to escape the concentration camps back to Germany; and the racism that peaked in our country in the 1930s to name two.
In terms of finding meaning; we can look to films such as "Unbroken" to see how Christ can allow forgiveness to our enemies; as well as the Corrie Ten Boom story of being with her sister who died eventually; and her narrative explaining how she praised God for the flea infested camp she was in because the guards didn't come in to beat them and they could study the Word together.
When looking at the madness of dictators we can see foreshadowing of the Antichrist and his campaign commencing in trying to fight Christ. (Ps.2 REV 19
In the first passage Paul cites, Irenaeus is addressing the claim that Jesus' public ministry lasted for only one year. This is from the well known section in Irenaeus where he incorrectly asserts that Jesus lived to be over 40 years old. Irenaeus is explaining that Jesus lived through every stage of life, including old age, which would result in His public ministry having lasted more than one year. Jesus experienced every stage of life, from infancy to old age, in order to save people from all age groups. The immediate context says nothing of the baptism of these people. Paul includes baptism by means of combining this passage in Irenaeus with what Irenaeus says elsewhere about baptism. But there's an assumption he's making in combining the two.
Would a belief in baptismal regeneration as normative require that every person regenerated is regenerated through baptism? No, advocates of baptismal regeneration will acknowledge some exceptions, such as the thief on the cross. Paul's assumption that Irenaeus believed that infants are born again through infant baptism is therefore possible, but unproven, at this point in the argument. Hendrick Stander and Johannes Louw explain:
"It is rather pretentious to insist on substituting the notion of baptism every time a writer uses the term 'regeneration' unless the context clearly relates to baptism as such....[this passage in Irenaeus] merely tells us that the redeeming work of Christ extends to whatever person....The passage does not speak about the age when people were baptized." (Baptism In The Early Church [Webster, New York: Carey Publications, 2004], pp. 53, 55)
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-
Other parts of this passage mention torture and wandering as nomads. It is fairly clear that when people are put to severe physical suffering and or death directly because of their profession of faith that persecution is occurring. When we look to the individuals who are exiled or made homeless because of either being directly evicted or put in a position of poverty because of their faith (even related to a caste system so encompassing anyone not in the elite status) it can be less clear. Some of this seems like "collateral damage"; and if we look at more subtle things such as verbal abuse and harassment on the job it may be even less clear. No doubt having a work ethic to work "heartily unto the Lord" (Coossians 3:23); to work as unto the Lord and to be above reproach thus not agreeing to use illegal means to promote the econonic status also can have fallout. Of course we must be diligent not to be robbing from our employer's time in having conversations that cause us to deviate from the work at hand; such much normally be reserved for break or after work hours; although there are times when in my own situation I have had to emphasize that I'd better clock out when being alone with one individual on my past job discussing theology. A lot; of course would depend on how complex the task is; there have been one or two times I can think of specifically when working in a warehouse; for instance when the whole production line jammed and there was literally nothing else to do at that time but usually there is some mundane task we can do to fill in for these moments.
Jesus promised that all who were Godly in Christ Jesus would be persecuted ( 2 Tim. 3:12; John 15:20). The origin and SOURCE of this situation is nearly always Satan's minions.
Thank you, Jesus shamed the leaders of Jerusalem about traditions, Matthew 15:3 and we are told in Colossians 2:8. My understanding is when we believe in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation we are justified by God's grace, Romans 3:24 and being baptized is being obedient to God's word, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: We then start the road to sanctification by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, Titus 3:5.
Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for our salvation and all we do we do in is name including being baptized, Colossians 3:17. He paid the penalty that our sins deserved by His sacrificial death on the cross. His death satisfied God's justice and turned away His wrath from us. God calls us but we must answer we must believe and be obedient to Him to be chosen, Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
When we are baptized in the Name of Jesus we have put on Christ, Galatians 3:27. Being baptized is obedience, Ephesians 2:102 Thessalonians 1:8, every believer who has opportunity will be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means to it.
Our obedience strengthens our faith, obedience shows our love for God, and our obedience to God's word is essential and it is not works. Those who are obedient are imitators of Christ and are willingly submitting to the authority, His will, and the word of God.
I do think that the Lord's Supper is open to all who have a professing faith in Jesus, are old enough to attest to this faith, and who live a life that is turned towards God and his ways. This does not mean that one needs to be sinless in one's life, but one who confesses their sin and seeks forgiveness and hates that they have sinned. This person should partake of the Lord's Supper because it is an "Encapsulated gospel" sign. It is the acceptance and celebration of the New Covenant of the shed blood and broken body of Jesus unto death for our sins. So, those who acknowledge that this is true and for them can partake of the Communion. Those who don't should be excluded.
As to your son's waywardness, like my own sons, I pray for them to return to Jesus in faith as you are praying for your son. I know that God loves our sons and yours more than we ever could and that He is able to work in their lives 24/7 and we cannot.
So, as parents, it is painful when we see our kids turn from the Lord and walk in the ways of the world, especially when they once embraced the Lord as children and teens. In today's church society, this is all too common. I wish the church was more effective in helping children of believers continue to keep the faith as they become adults. Our society is so different than when I grew up in the 60's and 70's when there was much more people of faith surrounding us in our neighborhoods and schools. But even then, many who grew up in church did not continue. I do not know what the answer is to this problematic trend, but I do desire to be persistent in prayer to those I know who have gone wayward like my own sons.
God is so good and knows our sons through ad through. I ask Him to enlighten their hearts again with the gospel and shed His grace upon their souls. I will keep your son in my prayers, too.
Also Jaz, I do not believe that one s saved by baptism. I believe that the elect will be regenerated by God and enabled to believe, and they will put their faith in Jesus either right away or sometime in their life at the time appointed by God.
If I had them baptized as infants, I would have done so by faith that God had or would regenerate them according to His election (that no one truly knows the eternal will of God) and I would bring them up in the faith as I did when they were not baptized, being sure that they heard the gospel. I believe. whether they were baptized as infants or by their choice, that the gospel presented is the power of God unto salvation. So, God would use the hearing of the gospel message to bring them to faith in Jesus.
Hello Jaz, We did not have our sons baptized as infants. We thought that they would choose to be baptized sometime in their childhood/teen years by their own choice since we were bringing them up in the faith and in a church environment. But they did not choose that as of yet. I continue to pray for them to return to the faith they had in Jesus as children and young teens/
Question. Can an infant take part in Lord's Supper? It is not possible, is it? When they grow and become children, can they take part? Assuming that they haven't given their heart to Jesus, can they still have Holly Communion? In 1 Corinthians it says that if one participates in Lord's Supper and have unrepentant sins then they are judged. So you see that also practical issues emmerge with baby baptism. It is not the baptism that protects our children. It is our prayers and teachings. As you said the children of the saints are holy. My son was born in the faith, he was actually a present from God to my wife, He attended the church untill he was about 14, he was regenerated and was baptized in the Spirit but not in water. God's grace was surely upon him. And then he made his revolution and abandoned the faith. But I see that he still has brakes in his brains. He knows God and his commandments so he avoids doing sins (not fully but at least not the heavy ones) and stlll prays but he is also attracted to the world. We are prayind for him and we know that God protects him and eventually he will come back. But it is true that God allows people to be taught by life itself like the prodigal son. Some have to end up eating pig's food to wake up and return. So lets keep praying for our children They will definitely come back to the Lord sometime, sooner or later..
I guess we differ on when regeneration happens. I believe one needs to be regenerated (which God does in one by grace alone) in which one is )given the capacity to believe. I believe that without God regenerating a person, that person cannot believe because they are dead in sin and depraved and not inclined to seek Him or obey Him.
As to the people you mentioned. It is true that ma y who have been baptized as infants fall away from their belief in the gospel which they have heard at least in the readings during church services. Just because someone has been baptized does not equate to them being regenerated. They are to separate works, one is what God (regenerate) and the other is what a person chooses (baptism). In churches that baptize infants, children, and adults it is common to speak the gospel over the person before they are baptized because it is the power of God for salvation ( Romans 1:16) and your quote from 1 Peter..
As parents we cannot know of God's work of regeneration in our children, whether they are baptized as infants or as older teens at that time. We will know by fruitful living over time that demonstrate this has occurred in the past. Baptism does not save a person, but it is a sign and a seal that places one into the body of believers. So Christian parents baptize infants and children because they are holy due to the believing faith of their parents and therefore covenantal members of God's people.
We cannot know if one is elect or not. That is God's determination. Churches are full of both those who are elect and those who are not. It can be hard to tell one from another.
And it is true that many who were baptized, whether as infants, children, teens or adults, who stray from faith in Jesus and live lives that are in opposition to God despite being baptized by their parents' choice or their own. This is quite evident. And as long as they are alive, there is still hope that they will come to Jesus in faith. So we pray.
Question. Is baptism any good if one does not believe in Jesus? I am living in a country where 95% of all the population have been baptized Greek Ortodox christians. It a custom and a trandition here. I believe in Italy and Spain a huge percentage of people have been baptized as Roman Catholic christians. So what? Is that any good? The prisons here are full of baptized people. People outside swear, steal, murder, rape, etc and they are all baptized when infants. Do they carry on them the grace of God? Has their baptism has done any good to them? I don't think so. They all know a few about Jesus and His life and teachings and that is all.
Can a person be regenerated as an infant? Lets leave it to the scripture to tell us. 1 Peter 2:23, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." Which is that incorruptible seed that the verse talks about? The answer is given in 1 Peter 24-25, "24 For all flesh is as grass, ...:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." It is the word of God, the gospel, that was preached to us.
In the parable of the Sower and the seed it is the seed that goes inside the good soil(all last 3 cases, never mind that some fall away afterwards). There is no other way. David and John the Baptist were people of the OT, that were never regenerated. Regeneration is not something that we do as people, it is something that God does. When? After we have heard the gospel and have believed and repented and decided to live a new holly life. So God regenerate us so that we become new people, and also become His children, and also through regeneration we are given His grace to obey His commandmenta and change our character in similarity to Jesus. Next step we are baptized, which means that we bury our old self and raise as new people to start a new life. This is how it goes.
I must say in response to your reference to my infant baptism, I truly cannot recall a time when I did not believe in Jesus, that He died for my sins, that He forgives me because of His love and sacrifice for me and have always walked by faith. I did not base my salvation on my parents at all. I was regenerated and given the power to believe by the Holy Spirit as early as I can remember. So, my baptism was valid as a witness to the reality of God's work of grace in me before I was baptized as an infant. You may not believe this to be true, but I do because I have walked with our Lord ALL of my life. My regeneration and salvation is not based on my faith or repentance, but wholly on God's grace bestowed on me as a holy child of believing parents, as the passage in 1 Cor. 7:14. It is not difficult for me to believe that God does regenerate fetuses, infants, and children just as He does adults. It is ALL a work of God, not because I have faith or repent. But I believe and repent because God regenerated me to be able to do these things with a heart that has been enlivened and made fit for relationship with Him only by His grace.
I know that people who came to faith as an teen or adult may have a hard time affirming this because their intellects were fully developed when they came to faith. But they, too, were regenerated before they believed, as well. Certainly God is able to do as He pleases in regenerating those elected to salvation at any time during their life-conception to death.
And some who have been raised with an anabaptist theology of baptism and salvation will have difficulty affirming my belief.
As for myself, I was baptized as an infant and raised by believing parents who placed the gospel before me from infancy. When I became an adult, I fellowshipped in pentacostal/charismatic churches that taught believers baptism and though that this made sense as one in my 20's and 30's. cont.
I know how you feel about this, what I said is a baby cannot believe and accept Jesus as their savior. God in His plan has chosen and placed people in this world to do His will like John the Baptist and many others. God our Father's plan was before anything and as we are, it is June 2024 but to our Father, He is with us today and He is with us when all is made new.
I know you were baptized when you were an infant, can I say that is wrong? No. As one grows one must decide on their own to accept Jesus as their savior regardless of whether they were baptized when they were an infant on the faith of their parents, we must make that choice regardless of our parents.
God knows yesterday, today, and all the time to come, but we are told we must be obedient to our Father just like our Savior Jesus who was obedient unto His death. Salvation and our eternal life with God and our Savior Jesus start with our belief that Jesus is the Son of God who He sent to die for us and pay the price for sin so that we will have eternal life.
It is up to us not our parents. The traditions and doctrines of men will not give us eternal life, only the belief in Jesus the Son of God who God gave that we can be saved.
We are called by God, Matthew 22:14, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and the only way to the Father, John 14:6. Anyone can be baptized but he that believeth and is baptized will be saved, Mark 16:16. This is on us, it is our obedience to the Father, we must truly in our heart believe Jesus is the Son of God the Messiah/Christ, and our only hope of salvation, we cannot do that as a baby. It is not a ritual we can check a box on the way to salvation it is between us and God and it must be done in the name of Jesus that we see in the entire New Testament.
When we are baptized in the name of Jesus, what we see in the Bible, we are submerged in water, we die to sin, and are buried in death with Jesus, and when we are raised from the water we are raised into a new life in Christ. We are justified and our journey then begins with sanctification in our walk in the Holy Spirit.
"11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
Romans 6:3:7:
"3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
I am not going to answer your questiond directly but I will give you some scripture which clarifies, I believe, everything about water baptism.
Acts 2:38. "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:27-39, "27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and PREACHED UNTO HIM JESUS.
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See,HERE IS WATER; WHAT DOTH HINDER ME TO BE BAPTIZED?
37And Philip said, IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST. And he answered and said,I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were COME UP OUT OF THE WATER the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, ..."
This is the order that I was taught and still believe to be true based on my own study.
Acts 8:36-37 are some of the greatest verses about Baptism. Philip gives the conditions for baptism: That the individual must believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (this rules out babies being baptized). 1 Pet 3:21 states that it is a figure that is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Based on those two passages, I believe that Belief comes before Baptism.
Now to compare being Born again to Believing, but first, just to define terms, what does being born again mean? It is the same as quickening and regenerating ( Eph 2:1; Tit 3:5). It is a phase of our salvation when God revives us spiritually with His Holy Spirit. We are physically born dead in trespasses and sins ( Eph 2:1-3). When Adam cursed mankind in the garden of Eden he died spiritually that day. God told him he would die the day he ate the fruit ( Gen 2:17), but Adam lived up to 930 years ( Gen 5:5), so either God lied and the Devil was telling the truth ( Gen 3:4) or a different type of death occurred than physical that being spiritual.
Rom 8:7-8 are powerful verses about the state of the carnal mind. Without God's gift of the Holy Spirit we can do nothing that is pleasing to God. Without the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, we only have the old man, the flesh, the carnal mind that hates God without the new man and spiritual mind that wants to please God.
Okay, back to the order of B's... 1 John 2:29 says "every one that doeth righteousness IS born of him" not shall be born of him. If a man does righteousness it is proof that the righteous spirit of God dwells in him and that he was born, quickened, and regenerated to have a spirit that loves God.
Additionally, John 1:12 mentions those who believe on him, but the verse does not end with a period. The rest of the thought is that they WERE born of God ( John 1:13).
We should consider also that when the gospel was being preached by the apostles, there were no second generation children brought up by believing parents at that time. So, the individual baptisms of adults such as the eunuch (who would remain childless) and Saul, (who was single) or Timothy are showing the baptism of those who had not been brought up by regenerated Christian parents. Children of parents who were regenerated were in a different standing than adults who profess faith, repent and are baptized.
The last thing I'd like to point out is that the Scriptures do not have any explicit teaching TO baptize children or infants AND NO teaching NOT to baptize children and infants. Therefore, any stance one would take on infant baptism is by inference.
Just as the Holy Spirit can regenerate adults and give faith to believe in Jesus when they were dead in sin, so can He do the same in infants and children of believing parents who will believe the Gospel as it is taught to them as they grow in intellectual understanding of Jesus, salvation, and their need for sin to be forgiven. We cannot confine God and His grace to one's own way of thinking concerning salvation because the Scriptures clearly say that it is given to us by God alone and not on anything we do. We are chosen from before creation to be saved and He will bring it about. If baptism does not save, but instead is a sign of God doing a saving work in an individual's life, why can't we believe that He can do this in the life of any infant, child, or adult before they have faith to believe? Our faith and repentance comes from God as a gift, and we should believe that He will gift our babies and children with regeneration, faith, and repentance as they are considered holy (saints) by reason of believing parent(s) as soon as they are born. They are just as eligible and deserving of baptism as a sign and seal of the covenant God has promised to the elect no matter their age at baptism.
My thoughts are that since one must be regenerated by the Hoiy Spirit and given faith to believe by him, the order that I would say is regeneration (born again) as a work of God alone comes first as He has elected one to salvation by His will alone. Then comes faith to believe, then baptism as far as believer's baptism goes.
With infant baptism, the person is baptized first with the parents believing on God being a covenant God who is consistent. In the OT circumcision was the sign of entering into a covenant relationship with God. It included both adults, children and infants. In the NT, God is still covenantal with His chosen people, so whole households are to enter into covenant relationship with God.
As is said in 1 Cor. 7:13-14 Paul says that parent(s) are believers, then the children are holy. And Jesus said not to hinder children from coming to Him, including infants ( Mk. 10:14' Lk. 18:16). We are to our children into the household of God in Christ. Baptism is the ordinance that sets one in the covenant relationship with God, therefore we bring infants tinto the church through baptism.
I think one needs to understand that when the Bible speaks of whole households being baptized it is most likely children and infants were included, just as they were in the OT with circumcision (the sign of being in the covenant people of God). Every OT Israelite was not of true faith as Abraham, but they were included within the members of the congregation anyway. Therefore, in like ways, children and infants are baptized, relying upon the promises of God that salvation and forgiveness of sins is for oneself and for one's children, as Peter said in Acts 2:38-39. We also need to realize that when Peter spoke these words, they were addressed to men who had come to Jerusalem for the Pentecost feast, not to women and children. Does this mean that women are not to be baptized into Christ since this statement was addressed to men? NO!
God grants repentance which leads to salvation; and godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to life. There is no way of getting around it; that we must repent and believe; and both true desires come from God. Judas Iscariot had worldly sorrow because it lead to death; He had no understanding of Christ being God in the flesh just having offended an innocent man. He didn't want to seek forgiveness and repent for his sins; his pride wouldn't give him that option apparently.
At this point we have belief; and in order to confess with our mouth and believe in our heart we have to also do a public act of identification and show how we are dying to ourself. Jesus made it clear that if we are ashamed of Him He will be ashamed of us when He comes with His Holy angels ( Luke 9:26; following Luke 9:25 about gaining the world and losing one's soul). I would identify Baptism as being associated with belief and therefore in conjunction with it but immediately after true faith is established. Any church in good standing would ensure a person believes before submitting to the authority of Christ and symbolically being part of the Body of Christ; dead buried and raised with Him.
Believing as the initial step must be more than a mental affirmation of Christ as Lord for even the demons believe and under compulsion everyone on heaven and earth will bow in submission to this fact. To be our Lord and Savior also means a change of who our master is; rather than the god of this world Jesus is our true Master. There are actions therefore that must accompany any true profession of faith; albeit rare circumstances like the thief on the cross who didn't have time to be baptized.
There is no good reason when it can be done to wait; then one has to doubt the sincerity of one's profession.
I would say believing and being born again are pretty much simultaneous; therefore AFTER repentance and remittance from sin with Baptism to follow.
You said you do have an answer for the order, so I will just share my belief.
Ephesians 4:4-6 says "There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.
So, this baptism here speaks of the baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are now joined to Christ by the Baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are part of the body of Christ!
This baptism includes Romans 6:3-4
3)-Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4)- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse 3 speaks of the old man within ourselves dying. (Christ was Judged for our sins)
Verse 4 Speaks of the quickening of the Spirit that rose Christ from the dead and now we are born from above.
The following verses sums this up.
Romans 6:5-11.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is other verses that Parallels this.
So I say once you genuinely believe, you are baptized and born again simultaneously.
Around 2000 years ago or much probably 67AD was written the book of Hebrews. Hebrews 6:1-3 say:
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward GOD,
2 Of the doctrine of BAPTISMS, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal Judgment.
3 And this will we do, if GOD permit.
Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of GOD; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the Word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Around 2000 years ago or much probably 60/65AD was written the book of Matthew. JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 and 32-35
14 - This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and then shall the END
come. (The TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, UNDERSTAND? Revelation 19:10)
32 Now LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR, even AT THE DOORS.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
GET READY
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
JESUS does not need to be visible here on earth or present in Person to perform the strange work as Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 28:21-22
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His WORK, His strange WORK; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS a CONSUMPTION, even determined upon the WHOLE EARTH.
Luke 21:26-27
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.(cloud?it is the same cloud of Acts 1:9-11, understand? it has nothing to do with cloud or H2O around the whole world, such a thought is/would be ridiculous. Take a look)
By the way, The NATIONS will be wrathed, but the WRATH of our GOD comes... and He should destroy them which destroy the earth.
My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER FEET.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
GET READY
Peter Apostle warned: 2Peter 3:12-14
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium),
wherein the heavens( Ephesians 1:3-8-OT and NT) being on FIRE- Isaiah 20-21 AND 19- shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is REVEALED. (Which of son of man is revealed? Since Moses there were several sons of man sent by our GOD as His messenger, and JESUS as GOD was the last sent around 2000 years ago)
JESUS my Lord made reference to the days of Lot and the city of Sodom to highlight and emphasize the destruction planned by GOD of the city of Sodom and neighboring cities. JESUS wanted to warn this current generation of believers in Him, how the Devil's current world will be punished and destroyed by GOD now, in this current time, even now, from now on( Revelation 11:15-18, mainly verse 18, combined with Isaiah 26:20-21.Take a look). By the Word of GOD(the Word is GOD, is the Power)Sodom and region as a whole was destroyed. By the way, GOD sent only two men to destroy Sodom and neighboring cities- Genesis 19:12-17, as GOD had spoken to Abraham, who interceded for the righteous of Sodom before GOD, unfortunately there were not found 10 righteous.
And now? The Word of GOD, the Power, is the same, so how many men will GOD send to destroy the World of Devil by the same Word, by the same Power, as He made in Sodom and neighboring cities, as was said by my Lord JESUS as example of destruction made by GOD? Yes, how many? Two or one? The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? By the way, the dismantling or destruction of all the structures of the Devil's world has already begun in this pre-tribulational period of sorows- Matthew 24:3-8- , the worst comes imediately after the end of the period of sorrows.
As judgment begins with the church ( 1 Peter 4:17) we need to be cognizant of this fact in order to prevent any further error to spread where the truth still resides. I am convinced that in recent times it is professing Christians who have caused those who are on fire for the Lord to have the most discouragement ( Matt. 24:29). Jesus warns about this immediately prior to His coming.
We need as with anything else to be balanced; He will come and suddenly; but in His timing. We dare not lose our vigilance or get into the date setting camp. We all must watch as Jesus commanded. ( Mark 13:37).
When we look into what is just around the corner we must realize that God has certain set plans that will come to pass in their time; that is specifically one world government; the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast which must end in the armies of the world fighting Christ to their demise as He returns and kills them with the fire coming from his mouth ( 2 Thess. 2:8 for this progression). In the end time Tribulation period there will be a countless multitude saved who appear in heaven after the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9). We remember that we will be part of the assembly in heaven who comes down with Christ in the armies from there when He returns.
As we go forward; of course the main focus should always be on the Great Commission. This doesn't absolve us when we have a chance to stand for righteousness in society; but we should pray and seek Him before entangling in any issues that could hamper what our primary labor should be. Like it or not WE are the counterculture now; we are the fringe society (won't use the r right term fully spelled out to avoid getting flagged).
Perhaps our best bet is what seems to have stood the test of time in recent decades; that is having a small group of people who fellowship together; and a small block or two which can be a sort of sanctuary in rough neighborhoods.
Lord; many are tired and perhaps like your Disciples at the Garden or all the 10 virgins falling asleep. May we learn how to have our strength renewed and be able to make proper "declarations" based on Your covenant promises; like Jacob did wrestling the Angel of God. May we see prayers that have gone for years finally being answered as well as having confidence that some may not be answered until you call us home or in the Tribulation or even Millennium. Help us love the unlovable; praying for our enemies; and be particularly sensitive to those you have repeatedly made to cross our paths no matter how difficult that it may be. Let us not be discouraged by vile words which cast doubts as to our faith being genuine which the enemy will use others to speak forth; let us realize that our reward is great as you said in the Sermon on the Mount. May it be You that they see and You that we truly find as our life and our hope and strength; and may we acknowledge that we are nothing more than sinners saved by grace. May we ever find time to pray for those on the mission field.
Help us to eliminate ALL things of the enemy that are distractions; whether music or entertainment if you show us that it is destructive to our walk with God. Show us all other things we are unaware of; whrough spiritual discernment that are leading us into sin; or blocking the effectiveness of our witness or prayer. May we trust you in lack as Paul did as well as prosperity.
LORD; help us to live in victory! May we continue to believe that for every trial and day of suffering as Psalms says every tear is as a bottle; known and viewed by you. May we realize our treasure and reward in heaven is growing proportionate to the suffering if it is indeed in You and not due to our own sins. Bring the good fruit in us to maturity; and purge us to produce more in Your timing. In Jesus' Name; Amen.
Forging ahead: How to remain steadfast in the faith from 2024 onward.
To avoid hypocrisy; and out of necessity for the topic at hand I will put out this prayer:
Lord and Savior and Master Jesus: In a world that is held captive like the passengers on the Titanic; we uphold your promises as believers to be seated currently in heavenly places. We are in the world but not of it. We serve a risen Savior; and learn to suffer as He did and as the Word of God says You live within us; those who truly believe. This is not self pity; but victorious living when we know that the one we serve stands victorious and is seated at the right hand of God awaiting His command to commence with taking His church home and initiating the Tribulation judgments starting at the first seal and continuing until the last bowl of wrath.
We acknowledge that all over the world your saints are going through trials; and that principally they are in the spiritual dimension either direct persecution and suffering; or alternatively temptation to sin through deception. I thank you Lord that there is still a vestige of the blessings in this nation of adequate food and clothing and shelter for many of us; but certainly not all in this country. May we be ready to give that up as the situation requires; and trust You to allow us to be the "head and not the tail" and have resources set aside as He gives us the ability for those who will be suffering lack in the breakdown of the economy and society at least before you take out Your church. YOU and you alone give us the strength to have courage and not fear; even the fear of death. We don't know how many will have to die of unnatural causes in the near future; or even know for sure our nation will make it until the Tribulation; although it would seem some from every country will. Help us all to hold to what is truly of you and teach us what we cannot recognize as remnants of our old man that give us comfort as well as keeping us from knownevil
Although I was also baptized as an infant, when I was in college I did choose to be baptized by immersion as I wanted to make that choice to obey what the Lord said, to believe, repent and be baptized. Doing so did not invalidate my infant baptized, yea, it affirmed it as my parents presenting me to God to work His grace in me. And that did happen. But as an adult, I wished to obey Jesus' command for myself.
Some churches refuse to re-baptize one who was baptized as an infant, believing that speaks against the efficacy of the former baptism. I do not think like this. The Bible does not say anything about this matter, neither recommending or forbidding.
One thing we do not know about the NT church is whether infants and children were baptized when a whole family is said to have been baptized. So, we cannot really say that it was or was not practiced. Jesus did say to not hinder the children/infants to come to Him, so that is one indication that we are to present our children to Him to be baptized and be initiated into the body of Christ.
When my sons were born, we did not baptize them as we wished for them to be baptized when they understood and believed the gospel and desired to be baptized. That never happened for them. But I do pray persistently for God to return them to faith and trust in Him.
Also, I have seen many people who were baptized as infants/children who have walked away from the Lord. I do believe that God will draw them back to Him at some point, but in the mean time, parents should pray persistently for their children to come to Jesus as adults.
So, which is the better route for Christian parents to take? I am not sure. In my life, being baptized as an infant showed its fruits from a young age as I have always known that God loves me and that Jesus died for my sins to save me. He has worked in my life from the start and kept me in the true faith. He provided His grace and mercy to me.
It would seem; with the lines blurring between good and evil (or more precisely; who the friends or the enemy is); today's drone type warfare and proxy wars and the hesitation since Hiroshima and Nagasaki to start a nuclear war (and in the same logic to directly start a large invasion or saturation bombing campaign such as Hitler's "blitzkrieg" which would trigger a nuclear apocalypse; we may not have such a large scale world war until the wars preceding and related to Armageddon. This of course doesn't guarantee this being a logical conclusion; but if wrong it would mean the Lord is going to tarry MUCH longer than it appears today. It would take decades to have any sort of society near "normal" as we see today; and indeed Jesus stated it would be like the times of Noah; or Sodom when destruction comes. ( Matt. 24:37 see also Luke).
In World War 2 itself; but not isolated to that event we saw how the actions of a few may have saved the day. I am not taking the time now to do the research; but I have heard that much prayer happened when England was down to its last plane or last few when being heavily assaulted by the German bombing runs. There were also things that I said in my last post that made the situation worse; namely Roosevelt sending those attempting to escape the concentration camps back to Germany; and the racism that peaked in our country in the 1930s to name two.
In terms of finding meaning; we can look to films such as "Unbroken" to see how Christ can allow forgiveness to our enemies; as well as the Corrie Ten Boom story of being with her sister who died eventually; and her narrative explaining how she praised God for the flea infested camp she was in because the guards didn't come in to beat them and they could study the Word together.
When looking at the madness of dictators we can see foreshadowing of the Antichrist and his campaign commencing in trying to fight Christ. (Ps.2 REV 19
Part 2.
In the first passage Paul cites, Irenaeus is addressing the claim that Jesus' public ministry lasted for only one year. This is from the well known section in Irenaeus where he incorrectly asserts that Jesus lived to be over 40 years old. Irenaeus is explaining that Jesus lived through every stage of life, including old age, which would result in His public ministry having lasted more than one year. Jesus experienced every stage of life, from infancy to old age, in order to save people from all age groups. The immediate context says nothing of the baptism of these people. Paul includes baptism by means of combining this passage in Irenaeus with what Irenaeus says elsewhere about baptism. But there's an assumption he's making in combining the two.
Would a belief in baptismal regeneration as normative require that every person regenerated is regenerated through baptism? No, advocates of baptismal regeneration will acknowledge some exceptions, such as the thief on the cross. Paul's assumption that Irenaeus believed that infants are born again through infant baptism is therefore possible, but unproven, at this point in the argument. Hendrick Stander and Johannes Louw explain:
"It is rather pretentious to insist on substituting the notion of baptism every time a writer uses the term 'regeneration' unless the context clearly relates to baptism as such....[this passage in Irenaeus] merely tells us that the redeeming work of Christ extends to whatever person....The passage does not speak about the age when people were baptized." (Baptism In The Early Church [Webster, New York: Carey Publications, 2004], pp. 53, 55)
See Part 3.
Hebrews 11:37
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-
Other parts of this passage mention torture and wandering as nomads. It is fairly clear that when people are put to severe physical suffering and or death directly because of their profession of faith that persecution is occurring. When we look to the individuals who are exiled or made homeless because of either being directly evicted or put in a position of poverty because of their faith (even related to a caste system so encompassing anyone not in the elite status) it can be less clear. Some of this seems like "collateral damage"; and if we look at more subtle things such as verbal abuse and harassment on the job it may be even less clear. No doubt having a work ethic to work "heartily unto the Lord" (Coossians 3:23); to work as unto the Lord and to be above reproach thus not agreeing to use illegal means to promote the econonic status also can have fallout. Of course we must be diligent not to be robbing from our employer's time in having conversations that cause us to deviate from the work at hand; such much normally be reserved for break or after work hours; although there are times when in my own situation I have had to emphasize that I'd better clock out when being alone with one individual on my past job discussing theology. A lot; of course would depend on how complex the task is; there have been one or two times I can think of specifically when working in a warehouse; for instance when the whole production line jammed and there was literally nothing else to do at that time but usually there is some mundane task we can do to fill in for these moments.
Jesus promised that all who were Godly in Christ Jesus would be persecuted ( 2 Tim. 3:12; John 15:20). The origin and SOURCE of this situation is nearly always Satan's minions.
Thank you, Jesus shamed the leaders of Jerusalem about traditions, Matthew 15:3 and we are told in Colossians 2:8. My understanding is when we believe in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation we are justified by God's grace, Romans 3:24 and being baptized is being obedient to God's word, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: We then start the road to sanctification by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, Titus 3:5.
Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for our salvation and all we do we do in is name including being baptized, Colossians 3:17. He paid the penalty that our sins deserved by His sacrificial death on the cross. His death satisfied God's justice and turned away His wrath from us. God calls us but we must answer we must believe and be obedient to Him to be chosen, Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
When we are baptized in the Name of Jesus we have put on Christ, Galatians 3:27. Being baptized is obedience, Ephesians 2:10 2 Thessalonians 1:8, every believer who has opportunity will be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means to it.
Our obedience strengthens our faith, obedience shows our love for God, and our obedience to God's word is essential and it is not works. Those who are obedient are imitators of Christ and are willingly submitting to the authority, His will, and the word of God.
God bless,
RLW
I do think that the Lord's Supper is open to all who have a professing faith in Jesus, are old enough to attest to this faith, and who live a life that is turned towards God and his ways. This does not mean that one needs to be sinless in one's life, but one who confesses their sin and seeks forgiveness and hates that they have sinned. This person should partake of the Lord's Supper because it is an "Encapsulated gospel" sign. It is the acceptance and celebration of the New Covenant of the shed blood and broken body of Jesus unto death for our sins. So, those who acknowledge that this is true and for them can partake of the Communion. Those who don't should be excluded.
As to your son's waywardness, like my own sons, I pray for them to return to Jesus in faith as you are praying for your son. I know that God loves our sons and yours more than we ever could and that He is able to work in their lives 24/7 and we cannot.
So, as parents, it is painful when we see our kids turn from the Lord and walk in the ways of the world, especially when they once embraced the Lord as children and teens. In today's church society, this is all too common. I wish the church was more effective in helping children of believers continue to keep the faith as they become adults. Our society is so different than when I grew up in the 60's and 70's when there was much more people of faith surrounding us in our neighborhoods and schools. But even then, many who grew up in church did not continue. I do not know what the answer is to this problematic trend, but I do desire to be persistent in prayer to those I know who have gone wayward like my own sons.
God is so good and knows our sons through ad through. I ask Him to enlighten their hearts again with the gospel and shed His grace upon their souls. I will keep your son in my prayers, too.
If I had them baptized as infants, I would have done so by faith that God had or would regenerate them according to His election (that no one truly knows the eternal will of God) and I would bring them up in the faith as I did when they were not baptized, being sure that they heard the gospel. I believe. whether they were baptized as infants or by their choice, that the gospel presented is the power of God unto salvation. So, God would use the hearing of the gospel message to bring them to faith in Jesus.
Question. Can an infant take part in Lord's Supper? It is not possible, is it? When they grow and become children, can they take part? Assuming that they haven't given their heart to Jesus, can they still have Holly Communion? In 1 Corinthians it says that if one participates in Lord's Supper and have unrepentant sins then they are judged. So you see that also practical issues emmerge with baby baptism. It is not the baptism that protects our children. It is our prayers and teachings. As you said the children of the saints are holy. My son was born in the faith, he was actually a present from God to my wife, He attended the church untill he was about 14, he was regenerated and was baptized in the Spirit but not in water. God's grace was surely upon him. And then he made his revolution and abandoned the faith. But I see that he still has brakes in his brains. He knows God and his commandments so he avoids doing sins (not fully but at least not the heavy ones) and stlll prays but he is also attracted to the world. We are prayind for him and we know that God protects him and eventually he will come back. But it is true that God allows people to be taught by life itself like the prodigal son. Some have to end up eating pig's food to wake up and return. So lets keep praying for our children They will definitely come back to the Lord sometime, sooner or later..
Blessings.
I guess we differ on when regeneration happens. I believe one needs to be regenerated (which God does in one by grace alone) in which one is )given the capacity to believe. I believe that without God regenerating a person, that person cannot believe because they are dead in sin and depraved and not inclined to seek Him or obey Him.
As to the people you mentioned. It is true that ma y who have been baptized as infants fall away from their belief in the gospel which they have heard at least in the readings during church services. Just because someone has been baptized does not equate to them being regenerated. They are to separate works, one is what God (regenerate) and the other is what a person chooses (baptism). In churches that baptize infants, children, and adults it is common to speak the gospel over the person before they are baptized because it is the power of God for salvation ( Romans 1:16) and your quote from 1 Peter..
As parents we cannot know of God's work of regeneration in our children, whether they are baptized as infants or as older teens at that time. We will know by fruitful living over time that demonstrate this has occurred in the past. Baptism does not save a person, but it is a sign and a seal that places one into the body of believers. So Christian parents baptize infants and children because they are holy due to the believing faith of their parents and therefore covenantal members of God's people.
We cannot know if one is elect or not. That is God's determination. Churches are full of both those who are elect and those who are not. It can be hard to tell one from another.
And it is true that many who were baptized, whether as infants, children, teens or adults, who stray from faith in Jesus and live lives that are in opposition to God despite being baptized by their parents' choice or their own. This is quite evident. And as long as they are alive, there is still hope that they will come to Jesus in faith. So we pray.
Question. Is baptism any good if one does not believe in Jesus? I am living in a country where 95% of all the population have been baptized Greek Ortodox christians. It a custom and a trandition here. I believe in Italy and Spain a huge percentage of people have been baptized as Roman Catholic christians. So what? Is that any good? The prisons here are full of baptized people. People outside swear, steal, murder, rape, etc and they are all baptized when infants. Do they carry on them the grace of God? Has their baptism has done any good to them? I don't think so. They all know a few about Jesus and His life and teachings and that is all.
Can a person be regenerated as an infant? Lets leave it to the scripture to tell us. 1 Peter 2:23, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." Which is that incorruptible seed that the verse talks about? The answer is given in 1 Peter 24-25, "24 For all flesh is as grass, ...:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." It is the word of God, the gospel, that was preached to us.
In the parable of the Sower and the seed it is the seed that goes inside the good soil(all last 3 cases, never mind that some fall away afterwards). There is no other way. David and John the Baptist were people of the OT, that were never regenerated. Regeneration is not something that we do as people, it is something that God does. When? After we have heard the gospel and have believed and repented and decided to live a new holly life. So God regenerate us so that we become new people, and also become His children, and also through regeneration we are given His grace to obey His commandmenta and change our character in similarity to Jesus. Next step we are baptized, which means that we bury our old self and raise as new people to start a new life. This is how it goes.
I understand where you stand too on this.
I must say in response to your reference to my infant baptism, I truly cannot recall a time when I did not believe in Jesus, that He died for my sins, that He forgives me because of His love and sacrifice for me and have always walked by faith. I did not base my salvation on my parents at all. I was regenerated and given the power to believe by the Holy Spirit as early as I can remember. So, my baptism was valid as a witness to the reality of God's work of grace in me before I was baptized as an infant. You may not believe this to be true, but I do because I have walked with our Lord ALL of my life. My regeneration and salvation is not based on my faith or repentance, but wholly on God's grace bestowed on me as a holy child of believing parents, as the passage in 1 Cor. 7:14. It is not difficult for me to believe that God does regenerate fetuses, infants, and children just as He does adults. It is ALL a work of God, not because I have faith or repent. But I believe and repent because God regenerated me to be able to do these things with a heart that has been enlivened and made fit for relationship with Him only by His grace.
I know that people who came to faith as an teen or adult may have a hard time affirming this because their intellects were fully developed when they came to faith. But they, too, were regenerated before they believed, as well. Certainly God is able to do as He pleases in regenerating those elected to salvation at any time during their life-conception to death.
And some who have been raised with an anabaptist theology of baptism and salvation will have difficulty affirming my belief.
As for myself, I was baptized as an infant and raised by believing parents who placed the gospel before me from infancy. When I became an adult, I fellowshipped in pentacostal/charismatic churches that taught believers baptism and though that this made sense as one in my 20's and 30's. cont.
I know how you feel about this, what I said is a baby cannot believe and accept Jesus as their savior. God in His plan has chosen and placed people in this world to do His will like John the Baptist and many others. God our Father's plan was before anything and as we are, it is June 2024 but to our Father, He is with us today and He is with us when all is made new.
I know you were baptized when you were an infant, can I say that is wrong? No. As one grows one must decide on their own to accept Jesus as their savior regardless of whether they were baptized when they were an infant on the faith of their parents, we must make that choice regardless of our parents.
God knows yesterday, today, and all the time to come, but we are told we must be obedient to our Father just like our Savior Jesus who was obedient unto His death. Salvation and our eternal life with God and our Savior Jesus start with our belief that Jesus is the Son of God who He sent to die for us and pay the price for sin so that we will have eternal life.
It is up to us not our parents. The traditions and doctrines of men will not give us eternal life, only the belief in Jesus the Son of God who God gave that we can be saved.
In Love God bless,
RLW
We are called by God, Matthew 22:14, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and the only way to the Father, John 14:6. Anyone can be baptized but he that believeth and is baptized will be saved, Mark 16:16. This is on us, it is our obedience to the Father, we must truly in our heart believe Jesus is the Son of God the Messiah/Christ, and our only hope of salvation, we cannot do that as a baby. It is not a ritual we can check a box on the way to salvation it is between us and God and it must be done in the name of Jesus that we see in the entire New Testament.
When we are baptized in the name of Jesus, what we see in the Bible, we are submerged in water, we die to sin, and are buried in death with Jesus, and when we are raised from the water we are raised into a new life in Christ. We are justified and our journey then begins with sanctification in our walk in the Holy Spirit.
God bless,
RLW
What is water baptism?
Colossians 2:11-12:
"11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
Romans 6:3:7:
"3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7.For he that is dead is freed from sin.".
GBU
[Comment Removed]
I am not going to answer your questiond directly but I will give you some scripture which clarifies, I believe, everything about water baptism.
Acts 2:38. "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:27-39, "27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and PREACHED UNTO HIM JESUS.
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See,HERE IS WATER; WHAT DOTH HINDER ME TO BE BAPTIZED?
37And Philip said, IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST. And he answered and said,I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39And when they were COME UP OUT OF THE WATER the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, ..."
GBU
This is the order that I was taught and still believe to be true based on my own study.
Acts 8:36-37 are some of the greatest verses about Baptism. Philip gives the conditions for baptism: That the individual must believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (this rules out babies being baptized). 1 Pet 3:21 states that it is a figure that is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Based on those two passages, I believe that Belief comes before Baptism.
Now to compare being Born again to Believing, but first, just to define terms, what does being born again mean? It is the same as quickening and regenerating ( Eph 2:1; Tit 3:5). It is a phase of our salvation when God revives us spiritually with His Holy Spirit. We are physically born dead in trespasses and sins ( Eph 2:1-3). When Adam cursed mankind in the garden of Eden he died spiritually that day. God told him he would die the day he ate the fruit ( Gen 2:17), but Adam lived up to 930 years ( Gen 5:5), so either God lied and the Devil was telling the truth ( Gen 3:4) or a different type of death occurred than physical that being spiritual.
Rom 8:7-8 are powerful verses about the state of the carnal mind. Without God's gift of the Holy Spirit we can do nothing that is pleasing to God. Without the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, we only have the old man, the flesh, the carnal mind that hates God without the new man and spiritual mind that wants to please God.
Okay, back to the order of B's... 1 John 2:29 says "every one that doeth righteousness IS born of him" not shall be born of him. If a man does righteousness it is proof that the righteous spirit of God dwells in him and that he was born, quickened, and regenerated to have a spirit that loves God.
Additionally, John 1:12 mentions those who believe on him, but the verse does not end with a period. The rest of the thought is that they WERE born of God ( John 1:13).
Born again, Believe, Baptism.
cont. Pt. 2.
We should consider also that when the gospel was being preached by the apostles, there were no second generation children brought up by believing parents at that time. So, the individual baptisms of adults such as the eunuch (who would remain childless) and Saul, (who was single) or Timothy are showing the baptism of those who had not been brought up by regenerated Christian parents. Children of parents who were regenerated were in a different standing than adults who profess faith, repent and are baptized.
The last thing I'd like to point out is that the Scriptures do not have any explicit teaching TO baptize children or infants AND NO teaching NOT to baptize children and infants. Therefore, any stance one would take on infant baptism is by inference.
Just as the Holy Spirit can regenerate adults and give faith to believe in Jesus when they were dead in sin, so can He do the same in infants and children of believing parents who will believe the Gospel as it is taught to them as they grow in intellectual understanding of Jesus, salvation, and their need for sin to be forgiven. We cannot confine God and His grace to one's own way of thinking concerning salvation because the Scriptures clearly say that it is given to us by God alone and not on anything we do. We are chosen from before creation to be saved and He will bring it about. If baptism does not save, but instead is a sign of God doing a saving work in an individual's life, why can't we believe that He can do this in the life of any infant, child, or adult before they have faith to believe? Our faith and repentance comes from God as a gift, and we should believe that He will gift our babies and children with regeneration, faith, and repentance as they are considered holy (saints) by reason of believing parent(s) as soon as they are born. They are just as eligible and deserving of baptism as a sign and seal of the covenant God has promised to the elect no matter their age at baptism.
Good question.
My thoughts are that since one must be regenerated by the Hoiy Spirit and given faith to believe by him, the order that I would say is regeneration (born again) as a work of God alone comes first as He has elected one to salvation by His will alone. Then comes faith to believe, then baptism as far as believer's baptism goes.
With infant baptism, the person is baptized first with the parents believing on God being a covenant God who is consistent. In the OT circumcision was the sign of entering into a covenant relationship with God. It included both adults, children and infants. In the NT, God is still covenantal with His chosen people, so whole households are to enter into covenant relationship with God.
As is said in 1 Cor. 7:13-14 Paul says that parent(s) are believers, then the children are holy. And Jesus said not to hinder children from coming to Him, including infants ( Mk. 10:14' Lk. 18:16). We are to our children into the household of God in Christ. Baptism is the ordinance that sets one in the covenant relationship with God, therefore we bring infants tinto the church through baptism.
I think one needs to understand that when the Bible speaks of whole households being baptized it is most likely children and infants were included, just as they were in the OT with circumcision (the sign of being in the covenant people of God). Every OT Israelite was not of true faith as Abraham, but they were included within the members of the congregation anyway. Therefore, in like ways, children and infants are baptized, relying upon the promises of God that salvation and forgiveness of sins is for oneself and for one's children, as Peter said in Acts 2:38-39. We also need to realize that when Peter spoke these words, they were addressed to men who had come to Jerusalem for the Pentecost feast, not to women and children. Does this mean that women are not to be baptized into Christ since this statement was addressed to men? NO!
cont.
At this point we have belief; and in order to confess with our mouth and believe in our heart we have to also do a public act of identification and show how we are dying to ourself. Jesus made it clear that if we are ashamed of Him He will be ashamed of us when He comes with His Holy angels ( Luke 9:26; following Luke 9:25 about gaining the world and losing one's soul). I would identify Baptism as being associated with belief and therefore in conjunction with it but immediately after true faith is established. Any church in good standing would ensure a person believes before submitting to the authority of Christ and symbolically being part of the Body of Christ; dead buried and raised with Him.
Believing as the initial step must be more than a mental affirmation of Christ as Lord for even the demons believe and under compulsion everyone on heaven and earth will bow in submission to this fact. To be our Lord and Savior also means a change of who our master is; rather than the god of this world Jesus is our true Master. There are actions therefore that must accompany any true profession of faith; albeit rare circumstances like the thief on the cross who didn't have time to be baptized.
There is no good reason when it can be done to wait; then one has to doubt the sincerity of one's profession.
I would say believing and being born again are pretty much simultaneous; therefore AFTER repentance and remittance from sin with Baptism to follow.
You said you do have an answer for the order, so I will just share my belief.
Ephesians 4:4-6 says "There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.
So, this baptism here speaks of the baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are now joined to Christ by the Baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are part of the body of Christ!
This baptism includes Romans 6:3-4
3)-Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4)- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse 3 speaks of the old man within ourselves dying. (Christ was Judged for our sins)
Verse 4 Speaks of the quickening of the Spirit that rose Christ from the dead and now we are born from above.
The following verses sums this up.
Romans 6:5-11.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is other verses that Parallels this.
So I say once you genuinely believe, you are baptized and born again simultaneously.
You are now justified in the eyes of the Lord.
Thanks and God bless.
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward GOD,
2 Of the doctrine of BAPTISMS, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal Judgment.
3 And this will we do, if GOD permit.
Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of GOD; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the Word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Around 2000 years ago or much probably 60/65AD was written the book of Matthew. JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 and 32-35
14 - This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and then shall the END
come. (The TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, UNDERSTAND? Revelation 19:10)
32 Now LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR, even AT THE DOORS.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
GET READY
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing
Those 3 B's should happen in a particular order. What is that order?
Is it...
You Believe which makes you Born again, and then you can get Baptized?
You get Baptized, you get Born again, and then you Believe?
You Believe, get Baptized, and then you're born again?
etc.
I will say, I do have an answer for the order and why, but I would love to see your stance based on what the New Testament says about these 3 B's.
Praying that Lord be with you all as you draw closer to Him and His Son our risen, reigning, and returning Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
JESUS does not need to be visible here on earth or present in Person to perform the strange work as Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 28:21-22
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His WORK, His strange WORK; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS a CONSUMPTION, even determined upon the WHOLE EARTH.
Luke 21:26-27
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.(cloud?it is the same cloud of Acts 1:9-11, understand? it has nothing to do with cloud or H2O around the whole world, such a thought is/would be ridiculous. Take a look)
By the way, The NATIONS will be wrathed, but the WRATH of our GOD comes... and He should destroy them which destroy the earth.
GET READY
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER FEET.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
GET READY
Peter Apostle warned: 2Peter 3:12-14
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium),
wherein the heavens( Ephesians 1:3-8-OT and NT) being on FIRE- Isaiah 20-21 AND 19- shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Get ready, do what GOD recommended- Isaiah 20-21
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is REVEALED. (Which of son of man is revealed? Since Moses there were several sons of man sent by our GOD as His messenger, and JESUS as GOD was the last sent around 2000 years ago)
JESUS my Lord made reference to the days of Lot and the city of Sodom to highlight and emphasize the destruction planned by GOD of the city of Sodom and neighboring cities. JESUS wanted to warn this current generation of believers in Him, how the Devil's current world will be punished and destroyed by GOD now, in this current time, even now, from now on( Revelation 11:15-18, mainly verse 18, combined with Isaiah 26:20-21.Take a look). By the Word of GOD(the Word is GOD, is the Power)Sodom and region as a whole was destroyed. By the way, GOD sent only two men to destroy Sodom and neighboring cities- Genesis 19:12-17, as GOD had spoken to Abraham, who interceded for the righteous of Sodom before GOD, unfortunately there were not found 10 righteous.
And now? The Word of GOD, the Power, is the same, so how many men will GOD send to destroy the World of Devil by the same Word, by the same Power, as He made in Sodom and neighboring cities, as was said by my Lord JESUS as example of destruction made by GOD? Yes, how many? Two or one? The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? By the way, the dismantling or destruction of all the structures of the Devil's world has already begun in this pre-tribulational period of sorows- Matthew 24:3-8- , the worst comes imediately after the end of the period of sorrows.
Get ready
As judgment begins with the church ( 1 Peter 4:17) we need to be cognizant of this fact in order to prevent any further error to spread where the truth still resides. I am convinced that in recent times it is professing Christians who have caused those who are on fire for the Lord to have the most discouragement ( Matt. 24:29). Jesus warns about this immediately prior to His coming.
We need as with anything else to be balanced; He will come and suddenly; but in His timing. We dare not lose our vigilance or get into the date setting camp. We all must watch as Jesus commanded. ( Mark 13:37).
When we look into what is just around the corner we must realize that God has certain set plans that will come to pass in their time; that is specifically one world government; the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast which must end in the armies of the world fighting Christ to their demise as He returns and kills them with the fire coming from his mouth ( 2 Thess. 2:8 for this progression). In the end time Tribulation period there will be a countless multitude saved who appear in heaven after the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9). We remember that we will be part of the assembly in heaven who comes down with Christ in the armies from there when He returns.
As we go forward; of course the main focus should always be on the Great Commission. This doesn't absolve us when we have a chance to stand for righteousness in society; but we should pray and seek Him before entangling in any issues that could hamper what our primary labor should be. Like it or not WE are the counterculture now; we are the fringe society (won't use the r right term fully spelled out to avoid getting flagged).
Perhaps our best bet is what seems to have stood the test of time in recent decades; that is having a small group of people who fellowship together; and a small block or two which can be a sort of sanctuary in rough neighborhoods.
Lord; many are tired and perhaps like your Disciples at the Garden or all the 10 virgins falling asleep. May we learn how to have our strength renewed and be able to make proper "declarations" based on Your covenant promises; like Jacob did wrestling the Angel of God. May we see prayers that have gone for years finally being answered as well as having confidence that some may not be answered until you call us home or in the Tribulation or even Millennium. Help us love the unlovable; praying for our enemies; and be particularly sensitive to those you have repeatedly made to cross our paths no matter how difficult that it may be. Let us not be discouraged by vile words which cast doubts as to our faith being genuine which the enemy will use others to speak forth; let us realize that our reward is great as you said in the Sermon on the Mount. May it be You that they see and You that we truly find as our life and our hope and strength; and may we acknowledge that we are nothing more than sinners saved by grace. May we ever find time to pray for those on the mission field.
Help us to eliminate ALL things of the enemy that are distractions; whether music or entertainment if you show us that it is destructive to our walk with God. Show us all other things we are unaware of; whrough spiritual discernment that are leading us into sin; or blocking the effectiveness of our witness or prayer. May we trust you in lack as Paul did as well as prosperity.
LORD; help us to live in victory! May we continue to believe that for every trial and day of suffering as Psalms says every tear is as a bottle; known and viewed by you. May we realize our treasure and reward in heaven is growing proportionate to the suffering if it is indeed in You and not due to our own sins. Bring the good fruit in us to maturity; and purge us to produce more in Your timing. In Jesus' Name; Amen.
Goodnight for now.
Rich P
To avoid hypocrisy; and out of necessity for the topic at hand I will put out this prayer:
Lord and Savior and Master Jesus: In a world that is held captive like the passengers on the Titanic; we uphold your promises as believers to be seated currently in heavenly places. We are in the world but not of it. We serve a risen Savior; and learn to suffer as He did and as the Word of God says You live within us; those who truly believe. This is not self pity; but victorious living when we know that the one we serve stands victorious and is seated at the right hand of God awaiting His command to commence with taking His church home and initiating the Tribulation judgments starting at the first seal and continuing until the last bowl of wrath.
We acknowledge that all over the world your saints are going through trials; and that principally they are in the spiritual dimension either direct persecution and suffering; or alternatively temptation to sin through deception. I thank you Lord that there is still a vestige of the blessings in this nation of adequate food and clothing and shelter for many of us; but certainly not all in this country. May we be ready to give that up as the situation requires; and trust You to allow us to be the "head and not the tail" and have resources set aside as He gives us the ability for those who will be suffering lack in the breakdown of the economy and society at least before you take out Your church. YOU and you alone give us the strength to have courage and not fear; even the fear of death. We don't know how many will have to die of unnatural causes in the near future; or even know for sure our nation will make it until the Tribulation; although it would seem some from every country will. Help us all to hold to what is truly of you and teach us what we cannot recognize as remnants of our old man that give us comfort as well as keeping us from knownevil
I agree with all you have written here.
Although I was also baptized as an infant, when I was in college I did choose to be baptized by immersion as I wanted to make that choice to obey what the Lord said, to believe, repent and be baptized. Doing so did not invalidate my infant baptized, yea, it affirmed it as my parents presenting me to God to work His grace in me. And that did happen. But as an adult, I wished to obey Jesus' command for myself.
Some churches refuse to re-baptize one who was baptized as an infant, believing that speaks against the efficacy of the former baptism. I do not think like this. The Bible does not say anything about this matter, neither recommending or forbidding.
One thing we do not know about the NT church is whether infants and children were baptized when a whole family is said to have been baptized. So, we cannot really say that it was or was not practiced. Jesus did say to not hinder the children/infants to come to Him, so that is one indication that we are to present our children to Him to be baptized and be initiated into the body of Christ.
When my sons were born, we did not baptize them as we wished for them to be baptized when they understood and believed the gospel and desired to be baptized. That never happened for them. But I do pray persistently for God to return them to faith and trust in Him.
Also, I have seen many people who were baptized as infants/children who have walked away from the Lord. I do believe that God will draw them back to Him at some point, but in the mean time, parents should pray persistently for their children to come to Jesus as adults.
So, which is the better route for Christian parents to take? I am not sure. In my life, being baptized as an infant showed its fruits from a young age as I have always known that God loves me and that Jesus died for my sins to save me. He has worked in my life from the start and kept me in the true faith. He provided His grace and mercy to me.
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