Discuss Romans 8 Page 17

The true gift of Bible prophecy

When we see the prophecy of Agabus in Acts 11; we see evidence of a Word given by an unknown saint to the church as to events soon to come. An individual word of knowledge came to Paul as to what would happen when he went to Jerusalem in Acts 21. These two examples show that most prophecy has unpleasant ramifications whether it if for a nation; individual or group of people. Comparison with today's prosperity gospel type of messages there is little or no scriptural precedence for "declared" blessings of financial success. The irony is that tends to eliminate the TRUE messages of God's promotion of certain individuals for unique ministries and great works for the Kingdom of God. When the successful saint is seen to have promotion; wealth and privileges in this world the verse about what is "highly exalted among men is an abomination to God" ( Luke 16:15).

Try telling Christ who had "no place to lay His head" ( Luke 9:58); or the disciples who said they had given up all things to follow Him ( Luke 18:28); or Christ telling others that it was harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle ( Matthew 19:23).

Another part of the problem is that people don't trust that God works good through all things for those who love God ( Romans 8:28). This could signify personal trials; or those affecting the nations of the world (war; famine; pestilence); and even the great multitude of the Tribulation are the fruit of the crucible God has placed to test all those who dwell on the earth ( Rev. 3:10).

I believe that any TRULY Born Again individual can do great things; and has time perhaps to do even greater things than Jesus in some sense ( John 14:12-14). This could only refer to the same Holy Spirit working quantitatively in a lifetime more than Jesus had time to do in 3.5 years of ministry, and primarily sign and wonder miracles were meant for the Apostles.

Sin is enmity with God. Romans 8:7-8

God bless u all in Jesus name, love u in Christ.

Great decision, to read throughout the Bible!!

Please start with : James 1:5,

It's amazing over many years of reading, rereading & studying, GOD can teach us something new every time. Hopefully you'll continue to read it several times.

Son's of GOD = Genesis 6:2, notice: Genesis 4:26, = John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1, 2

Job 1:6, Job 2:1, = notice the vrs. right before, Job 1:5, & right before, Job 2, Job 1:20-22, Revelation 12:10,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study

Kenaket When you read the words John 3:16 and 17 then you begin to see the Great love of God displayed and

made known by Jesus Christ and notice 17 for God sent his Son NOT TO CONDEMN the world but that the world through Him

might be saved. Also next verse the condition you have to believe nothing gets done without believing and that requires

action based on Gods word on what to do. Romans 8:28-39 look at who has our back and also 2 Peter 1-8 those who believe

through the knowledge of God and act on that knowledge will never fail. So the draw is Gods love and only the scriptures

show it. Agapeo

John 17, Jeremiah 30:18-21, John 6:44, John 15:16,19, Romans 8:28-30,

Numbers 16:5,

Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14,

John 6:70, John 13:18, Acts 1:2,

Hopefully these are helpful

Part 2.

Titus 3:4-6. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of REGENERATION, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly THROUGH Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Let's look at this word regeneration. Greek:

Transliteration: paliggenesia

Pronunciation: pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah

Definition: From G3825 and G1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act) that is (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.

We have been REGENERATED, REBORN, Given a new heart and ready to present Christ work through you.

So we have the words Quickening.

Greek:

Transliteration: zopoie

Pronunciation: dzo-op-oy-eh'-o

Definition: From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive give life quicken.

KJV Usage: quicken(9x), give life(2x), make alive(1x).

It means to make alive or give life.

Here in

1 Corinthians 15:45.

We know Jesus is that Quickening spirit which is also the Holyspirit that gives life in Romans 8:11-14.

( If you notice verse 14 you have to be led by the Spirit.)

A life now that can bare fruit such as faith.

This is what James is saying in James 2:17-18. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

What James is saying is he's going to show that this gift is in me by his work. You see a Christian is saved UNTO good works. Ephesians 2:10.

This is why the Lord says you shall know them by their fruits. It doesn't say you shall know them by their works! You see your fruits is something only God can produce such as Love/Agape, Faith, ect.. and fruit determines what type of works it is. "OF God/Spirit. or of Self/flesh. Matthew 7:15-20.

God bless.

Job had many complaints about God; but we must realize that he was unaware of Satan's part in the calamities in particular in Job 1 and 2; and the eventual physical toil allowed by God with death being the only limit Satan couldn't reach. That caused the suffering found until the last chapter of the book. God used it to test Job; to see if he remained faithful and not curse His name (as apparently his wife did). Only in that sense did God use this as He does all things for the good for those who love Him ( Romans 8:28).- The frightening apparitions or dreams that Job saw; the painful sores; the accusations of his friends etc were unjustified.

The important event which I tended to overlook was God's command for Job to pray for his 3 friends (with the youngest one for some reason left out). If he hadn't done this not only their own state would be in peril; but perhaps Job himself would never have gotten over his bitterness and could have ended up much like Jonah. His own restoration was tied into forgiveness toward his friends; a lesson we cannot afford to ignore. Also; of course Job's fortunes were restored even more than before; in both beautiful offspring; and riches. It is interesting that only daughters were mentioned; it would be supposed that something good came from his wife (who knows if she ever repented of her own callous words).

So as to your original question; what was being blamed toward God was really Satan's "machinations". God has predestined all things; even Job and Satan in the time and place these events occurred; for our own edification (as all scripture is God breathed and worthy for instruction; etc. ( 1 Tim. 3:16-17). God tests all His servants to prove that they are overcomers; and to produce fruit. God doesn't willingly afflict man ( Lamentations 3:31-33). He has no pleasure even in the death of the wicked Ezekiel 33:11. He chastises all those He loves ( Heb. 12:6). Let us rejoice in this and trust Satan is a defeated fo

Page 2.

On Romans 2:11 onwards. The apostle is writing about God not showing respect (or, partiality) between Jews & Gentiles. Those who have sinned without having the Law (i.e. Gentiles), will perish not having received the Law (God's Laws to Israel). Likewise, those sinning having the Law (i.e. Jews) will be judged by that Law (& of course, they will fail, for the Law made no one righteous, but only showed their sinfulness). Only the doers of the Law will be justified. So, what Law(s) can be kept perfectly to justify us before God? None, for all have sinned - & the Law only revealed the sin & extent of that sinful condition to the Jew.

Only faith in Jesus can save both Jew & Gentile. Those who keep God's Laws acceptably, are those who have the Holy Spirit & who are living out their lives through Him & by His Power ( Romans 8:1; Galatians 5:25). Both Jew & Gentile who are saved through Christ, are no longer bound to the Law that only brought death, but live in the power & joy of the Holy Spirit, Who helps us live beyond the Letter of the Law, living according to the dictates of the Spirit.

Lastly, one can never do enough for the Lord. How much is ever enough? But, if you're a praying person wanting to use the opportunities God lays upon your heart or directs you to, then every place you go to & every person you meet, may be what the Lord wants for you to share something of His Goodness. Any sense of cowardice will disappear - for the Lord will be your strength ( 2 Timothy 1:7) & your mouth - remembering your witness & life will be the catalyst for someone to become serious about his eternal well-being. You may be God's man for God's special moment in another person's life.

Dear Savanna B, the key to your peace is to trust Him. He said it best in His Word.

Ps. 56:3 "What time I am afraid, I will trust in You."

Deuteronomy 31:6, "Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."

Romans 8:37-39 "Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

And remember, it says in Philippians 4:13, you "...can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth..." you.

God bless and keep you!

Brother Jesse:

I know this sounds harsh, but I know, that you know, what God's word says.

Pray in this manner: Not my will, but thy will be done.

I also have a grandson who would not leave drugs alone and went to prison twice; but now he has a good job and a family.

Our only comfort is in God's word and the examples in the Bible, one being of Joseph.

Genesis 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I IN THE PLACE OF GOD?

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; BUT GOD MEANT IT UNTO GOOD, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Romans 8:28 For we KNOW ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER for good, unto them that love the Lord, to them that are called according to HIS PURPOSE.

We can't see that calling and purpose, Our Father can, he also is the Father of your grandson.

God Bless You.

Sister Martha:

John 4:24 God is Spirit .....

Ephesians 4:4 ONE SPIRIT ...ONE BODY ...

Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and FATHER OF ALL .....

Man, born of woman, (FLESH), is like a Beast of the Earth, NO KNOWLEDGE.

The Holy Ghost came to GIVE MAN KNOWLEDGE.

So we can be BORN OF SPIRIT.

God IS SPIRIT, no beginning and no end.

God created a IMMORTAL BODY, and put inside that IMMORTAL BODY, HIS SPIRIT (Himself), and called that BODY, Jesus Christ, the first man, the TRUE ADAM, with no beginning and no end.

Here is a PROPHECY in Genesis:

Genesis 5:2 Male and Female created he them, and blessed them, and CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM. in the DAY they were created.

That day (of that creation), is called the DAY OF THE LORD, the day you come out of darkness into light. You come to the KNOWLEDGE that by the RESURRECTION of Christ's NEW BODY (YOU and I) and the NEW LIFE by the SPIRIT of THE FATHER: we become ADAM, Christ was the first ADAM, before the flesh and blood Adam, we are the last, ADAM, created in Christ Jesus

Revelation 1:8 ... Revelation 22:13 I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

Ephesians 4:4 ....ONE BODY .......

There is only ONE BODY that can exist in the next age, and THAT BODY is the BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only (Christ only) hath immortality, dwelling in the LIGHT ......

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth IT (the new creation in Christ) a BODY as it hath pleased him, and to ever SEED HIS (God's on body), God's BODY IS JESUS CHRIST.

WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST, The Father (SPIRIT) being THE LIFE, of the BODY.

This NEW BIRTH happens when your body of FLESH and BLOOD DIES.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the FIRSTBORN (Alpha) among many brethren (Omega).

God Bless You.

No Martha, the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are one & self-same Spirit. We understand this because of the Deity of the Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit is a vital Person within the Godhead, or Trinity), & by the procession of the Spirit (i.e. the Spirit proceeding from both the Father & the Son, without any change or division in God's Nature).

a. the Spirit's Deity.

Proven by His Names (Equality: 1 Corinthians 6:11; Doing the Work of God: Romans 8:15; John 14:16).

Proven by His Characteristics (All-knowing: 1 Corinthians 2:10,11; Everywhere: Psalm 139:7; All-powerful: Genesis 1:2; Truth: 1 John 5:6; Holiness: Luke 11:13; Life: Romans 8:2; Wisdom: Isaiah 40:13).

Proven by His Works (In creation: Genesis 1:2; Inspiration: 2 Peter 1:21; Begetting Christ: Luke 1:35; Convincing men: John 16:8; Regenerating: John 3:5,6; Comforting: John 14:16; Interceding: Romans 8:26,27; Sanctifying: 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Proven by His equality with the Father & Son ( Acts 5:3,4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

b. the Spirit's Procession.

Proceeded from the Father ( John 15:26).

Proceeded from the Son ( Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:9; John 16:7).

So, I hope you can see that the Holy Spirit, whether spoken of God or of Jesus, is the same Spirit, for He is one with the Father & the Son. Then when we come to 1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit", again the one & same Holy Spirit is seen here, but we now see His special work where His coming into our lives, affects our spirits and baptizes us (brings us into union) with the whole family of God (into one Body, i.e. of Christ).

Hey John,

This is my understanding, please study and let the Holy Spirit help you come to your understanding.

The people in Thessalonica were questioning things and had concerns about the second coming of Jesus. Paul, in first and second Thessalonians, was responding to Timothy's report on the church there. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul told them that Jesus would not return until two things happened "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;".

What is this falling away, apostasia; meaning defection, revolt, to leave, or depart? To be one of the two things that Paul lists that will happen before Jesus returns it must be of a large scale, not some gradual departure.

In Revelation 3:10 there is the hour of temptation that will come on all the world. In 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion. God will not keep us from being tempted but keep us by giving us the strength in our faith not to surrender to it. This temptation comes upon all the world including the believers in Christ if we are still alive, if we are living, we will face this, Revelation 13:9-15

Jesus said these words, Matt. 10,16 Mark 8 and Luke 9, Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it, to me fits this very time that is coming.

Romans 8:17-18 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

"Here is the patience and the faith of the saints".

God bless,

RLW

I am very uplifted to read your comment. We comforted one another until the end. Your joy is my joy. Peace to you and your family. You have my prayers. I thank God for you letting me know How great to communicate with my fellow believer. Have a blessed weekend. Thank you.

Thank you Ronnette, we need such comforting words sometimes.

I also think how timeless the Bible is.

Totally

God bless u and yours in Jesus name, love u in Christ.

I went through mental abuse and a couple other situations growing up myself. I guess the best appeal is looking at the life of Christ Himself and the fate of the Apostles. All who are godly in Christ Jesus will to one degree or another suffer persecution. ( 2 Tim. 3:12). Christ does turn all things for the good for THOSE WHO LOVE HIM ( Romans 8:28). This verse also shows predestination as to our faith and favor towards those who are ultimately called out from the world to be His children.

The best explanation I can give from my own experience is forgiveness; the love for those who are unloving is Agape love; and only found after we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Paul Himself from scripture was at least compicit in murder and imprisonment of believers until he was knocked down in the Book of Acts. We have modern day examples of those who survived the Rwanda massacre; and Corrie Ten Boom's tale of the Holocaust and forgiving his tormentor; as two examples of this. I was able to make some reconciliation on my end; and I know those who have also been through sexual and physical abuse that have seen restoration. It is important to seek prayer in these matters; and be an example of longsuffering.

The result will go one direction or another; but we at least will be free from the bondage of unforgiveness in our hearts.

We ourselves; of course need to be cautious that the besetting sins that pass through families don't affect us and especially that we don't treat our own children or others in that way. Only by the grace of God can we be kept from evil overtaking us; in one form or another. Our own suffering can bring empathy toward others unlike those who haven't experienced suffering like that; as well as have more than ample spiritual power to overcome. We must NOT look to the world or flesh for a quick emotional fix; or toxic relationships. We don't want the cure to be worse than the disease!

May He richly bless you and yours. Rich P

This chapter helped me to overcome physical pain. I thank and glorify God for sending His only begotten Son Jesus Christ so we can endure all things until the end. I also thank God for those who truly understand the Bible. I do not pretend I do understand it all. I pray and listen to the little voice that backs up the scriptures. There is Indeed dispensation in the Bible. Some verses appear to be contradicting, but it is not. The messages are clear that there are verses that applies to both us and the Jews spiritually, and there are some that applies to only the Jewish people in different times. The Book of Acts is indeed a transitional book. Jesus Christ had chosen The Apostle Paul and revealed to Paul how to be truly saved. I pray that people see the message and Gospel we will be judge in the end. There are so many things I can explain, but the scriptures are clear enough for those who truly seek God. Ever since I realized my existence in this world (at a very young age) I recognized cruelty and sadness from people. But God helped me navigated through all that journey knowingly and unknowingly. Mistakes and Errors accompanied that experienced. The sure thing I knew is that I was guided by a very powerful spirit now I know it was and it is God. So making God your best friend at such a young age really helps as it mentioned in the scriptures. It really helps to pray and talk to God in a regular basis of conversation. Listening to men are fun but listening to God is the best men can do. It seems that the more I share my Godly experience to all of you readers the sooner I feel I am better already. At the end of this comment, I am happy to say I have no pain. Glory to God. Agape to all.

Part 5.

The power of the Holyspirit displayed in Peter "After" conversion!

If we revisit Luke 22:32 "WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren" Wow! by now you would have thought he was already converted by just going through the motion of just following Jesus. No! An outward expression means nothing unless there's an inward cleansing. You see an example of this in Matthew 23:26 when the Lord rebuked the Pharisees.

But let's look at the difference in Peter after his conversion. We know by the Gospels Peter and the Desciples denied the Lord, fearing death. In John 21:18-19 the Lord tells Peter by which death he should glorify God, then he tells Peter "Follow me" This reminds us of John 13:36-37.

After Peters conversion and when he was strengthened by the Holyspirit Peter preached boldly whilst knowing his fate.

2 Peter 1:14. Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

This ought to be humbling! All you do should be to the Glory of God. When we're born again everything you have or do is supplied by the Holyspirit, Not of yourselves. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:7-9

If you don't Love your brother it is because you can't! And you can't because God is not in you!!

More on the command to Love in part 6.

Predestination (Part 1):

I would like to share my understanding on predestination. This may be a little long, but I think it is an important topic that should be addressed.

I am reading over Romans 8:29 which reads, "For whom he did foreknow, (know ahead of time), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Please allow me to share a little bit with you about predestination. Actually, predestination in the bible is very simple to understand. In Ephesians 1:3-14, in the Greek text, these verses are all one sentence. And that's the chapter that most people focus on when it comes to predestination.

The most prominent teaching on predestination that we have today comes from John Calvin and there are differences, as people take different turns with it as to what predestination means.

But the one that's going around that people hold to a lot is that predestination means that God predestines or chooses those who are going to be saved ahead of time, and He predestines those who are going to go to Hell ahead of time.

So according to that belief, you are chosen and predestined as to whether you are going to go to Heaven or Hell. You have no choice. There's no free will according to this teaching. You are either predestined one way or the other.

But please notice in this text, in context, what it says. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate." Predestinate what? "To be conformed to the image of his Son."

Predestination is never associated with salvation in the bible. You will always see the word associated with those who are already saved. And it won't be salvation. It's what has been predestined or chosen for us as part of our inheritance.

Matthew 6:5-34, Matthew 7:7-27, Matthew 10:29-33, John 14:11-28, John 15, note John 15:16, John 16:23,24,26,27,

Honestly, I've had answered prayer in very immediate dangerous situations, just crying "GOD, help me" possibly even just "GOD" it's possibly because GOD knows if we love Jesus. Romans 8:27,

Hopefully these are helpful

Part 1.

Here by we know.

A Child of God can and should examine themselves.

I gave a recent post on the old man being crucified with Christ and given life being quickened by the Spirit. In other words, being baptized into Christ death and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4. Romans 8:8-13,

Paul gives gave these verses as a rebuttal to anyone having the old nature having dominion over them.

Here are some highly ignored verses and is whereby we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a great concern!

A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.

Now "if" we have been baptized in Christ, we have the love of God in us to love one another.

This is virtue by being in him and him in you.

see part 2.

There have traditionally been two main camps since midieval times; that of the Calvanists believing in Predestination (along with some other early theologians) and those of the "Arminian" or free will camp. There is no doubt that there is a predetermined path known beforehand by God (and translated predestined as Romans 8:29 states). The debate is to whether it is the individual who is always referred to or the PLAN that is established from eternity for the church in general to conform us into His image. It ends up being a logic sort of argument; basically stating that we are "totally depraved" which is deduced from many verses showing that man is estranged from the womb ( Psalm 58:3); and many other scriptures indicating that since the fall of Adam we are all in the nature of fallen man. It does seem clear that without Divine guidance we are indeed unable to do any good works ( Isaiah 64:6).

We cannot ignore Romans 1 and Psalm 19; two examples that show man deliberately ignoring the obvious design of nature and His Divine attributes. Man has a conscience; but that is already subjective as to our own emotions and will and fallen; and sin hardens it further so that it can become seared ( 1 Tim. 4:2). It is clear whatever school of thought we entertain that God knows who will be saved and who won't be ultimately as He knows all things. Jesus knew His sheep ( John 10:14); but also that Gospel shows that those who are NOT His sheep ( John 10:26). It is pretty clear that God has predetermined all who Christ will die for in that Gospel as well. We really don't get these concepts BEFORE in time and space we come to a state of repentance and new birth (again; things GIVEN by God). We must repent and be held accountable; whether it is for works done apart from grace for nonbelievers; or those done as believers at the Bema Seat Judgment. We also must agree that God is fair; judges impartially; and doesn't rejoice in the death of the wicked. (see Deut 29:29).

The closest passage to what you're asking about, is found in Romans 8:22,23. But if you read the whole chapter, you can see why both we & all creation 'groans in pain' & why that pain will one day be removed with resulting freedom & joy.

According to Christ; "His sheep hear His voice." ( John 10:27). 2 Tim. 2:24-26 indicate that repentance indeed is a gift from God.

The basic premise is that we are all "children of wrath" by nature under condemnation apart from Christ. ( Eph. 2:3). If we cannot understand that man's heart is estranged from God; and that at best we try to avoid the consequences of sin rather than have any true remorse for offending a Holy; righteous and just God then we simply are living out a works based theology. Titus 1:15 shows further how our best actions are contaminated and defiled.

Human love only shows true affection for those who love us ( Matthew 5:46-48). To love those who "despitefully use us" ( Matthew 5:44) takes a change of heart; a Divine intervention and infusion of the Holy Spirit again which is given by God ( Ezekiel 36:26).

From OUR perspective we see ourselves drawn to the one from all eternity who created all things. ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). This verse shows again how even THIS is instigated in man's conscience by God. We need to realize that there is a process involved; as the parable of the seed and the sowers indicates. The seed from God (again planted on His initiative) is introduced; and ultimately must progress until "fruit is produced" (see also Matthew 3:8). TRUE repentance will overcome temptations that the Lord uses to prune us; as He "chastises all those He loves" ( Heb. 12:6; etc). God therefore initiates salvation; and the whole sanctification process ultimately leading to glorification ( Romans 8:17).

When we are saved; we have new desires to serve God and rejoice in the thought of service to Him now and in eternity. We begin a process of mortification of the deeds of the flesh ( Romans 8:13). From our perspective; we need to accept the truth about ourselves and our utter hopelessness apart from Christ in our own strength. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom ) Proverbs 9; Psalm 111; etc). Jeremiah 32:40 shows God gives that

Amen Thank you Our Father

Part 3.

In Acts 15 the Disciples have a counsel on whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and keep the law, then Peter stands up to address the matter. Acts 15:7-11. Here you have the apostle Peter "A Jew" saying in verse 11, we Jews shall be saved in the same manner as the Gentiles! (By faith) "He's declaring "we jews have to come to the Lord by a new covenant".

This is the new birth spoken by Jesus in John 3:5 when speaking to Nicodemus. This is that which is spoken in

Jeremiah 31:31-34.

So here we have a new birth that provides a new nature that is generated by the Holyspirit. You see aspects of this in

Romans 6:1-23. Also, this is what is meant in John 4:21-24.

Here we have the quickening spirit by the second Adam that gives life under a new covenant where the old covenant brought death to the fleshly descendants of the first Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and 2 Corinthians 5:1-6.

Ephesians 2:1-5 sums it up.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

"AGAIN We're not talking about "Justification" we're talking about sanctification. Romans 5:1-21 handles justification.

GRAFTED INTO THE VINE BY THE RESURECTION OF CHRIST.

John 15:1-5.

Romans 6:6.

Now take these chapters in order-

Romans 6:1-23.

Romans 7:1-25.

Romans 8:1-39.

We are Justified and Sanctified by the blood of Christ and given a new nature under a new covenant that bares fruit by the power of the Holyspirit.

God bless.

Part 2.

Let me pause for a second to say this is not a message on whether we keep the commandments or not. This is about the nature of the Un generated heart of man apart from Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit by those who are in Christ.

When speaking of the law we think of the writings of Moses and the commandments, etc.

Let's take a look at the purpose of the law and the effects and condition of those under it.

THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW.

Galatians 3:24.

Also take a look at Romans 7:7 .... (I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.)

THE EFFECTS AND CODITION OF THOSE UNDER THE LAW.

Here in Romans 7:23. we have Paul describing the warring of the old nature and the new nature in a believer.

"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

Here in Romans 8:3-7. we have a picture of the flesh held captive by the curse of the law.

(For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,)

God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, NEITHER INDEED CAN BE.

THE LAWS CONCLUSION.

So, the law showed us our fallen and sinful condition, and the law also couldn't change the heart of man that's why we have to be born from above. This is what the new birth does and how it is in relationship to baptism. As seen Galatians 3:24-27.

See Pt 3.

Part 1

Here is a very important truth that is not discussed often and one that can tie a lot of loose ends.

What does works of the flesh and the works of law have in common? And how does it contrast Fruit of the Spirit. And what does baptism "Not water baptism" has to do with it?

When talking about salvation we like to consider verses like John 3:16. Romans 10:9. and others. But what does born from above spoken by Jesus in John 3:7 means and how should the new birth effect the believer in a way the old nature could not?

Here's just a few reference verses.

Galatians 2:16. Galatians 5:19-21.

Galatians 5:22-24. John 15:1-6.

John 3:7.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So, then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:1-11.

I believe that Psalm 51 are the words of David, his cry to God for forgiveness for his great sin. If these were the Holy Ghost's Words, then they were as a result of the Spirit's conviction upon David bringing him to the point (via the prophet Nathan, 2 Samuel chapter 12) of deep contrition, repentance, & seeking forgiveness. Yes, all of Scripture is Holy Spirit inspired: sometimes as direct words (verbatim) to God's prophets & other times, by filling the heart & guiding the steps of those who need to receive God's Truth.

But the Psalm is clearly not a prophecy of the coming Christ. If Psalm 51:13 is attributed to Jesus as One Who would "teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee", then Jesus was also "shapen in iniquity...needed to be purged with hyssop...have his sins hidden from God...needing a new heart & a right spirit...etc. So, this won't make sense. It is David speaking, that after he is forgiven & restored, will he then be able to bring God's Laws to the people without hypocrisy & sinners may be converted.

Jesus came "in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh and for sin" ( Romans 8:3), but He remained pure throughout His Life unlike David who failed God many times - of whom this Psalm is about.

Kenneth,

Jesus did not say it in those exact words, but it is true that a person must repent and ask for forgiveness in order to be saved. Romans 10:13 says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." That's a promise! If a person with a repentant heart genuinely calls out to Him and cries out to Him for mercy and to save them, He will do it. Jesus said in John 3:3 that "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." The word "again" in the Greek text is literally the word above. It is not PALIN, which is the word for again. It is the word ANOTHEN, which means "from above." What Jesus is saying is that if a person is not born from above (A Spiritual birth), he is not able to see the Kingdom of God.

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that you become a new creation when God's Spirit comes into your spirit. You become a new person. So a person must be born of God's Spirit in order to enter into heaven. In fact, Romans 8:9 tells us that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. The connection here is that a person must belong to Christ in order to enter into heaven, and the evidence that a person belongs to Christ is that they have His Spirit living in them. A person belongs to Christ if they have His Spirit literally dwelling in them (Permanently). I enter into heaven not because of who I am, or what I've done. I enter in because one day when I stand before God, He will see His Son in me.

God Bless!!!