Discuss Revelation 11 Page 8

Donna Smith,

There are several opinions on this, we know Satan was the first to rebel, the first to sin, a murderer, and is the father of lies ( John 8:44). We see in Isaiah 14 God said, take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, many take vs. 12 O Lucifer son of the morning as being Satan describing his casting out.

The word Lucifer, the morning star is another word for the planet Venus, Latin roots lux (light) and ferre (to carry) it is its brightest right before sunrise. It is also called a day star because it can be seen in the daytime.

We see in ( Ezekiel 28:12-19) Is a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, where the description of Satan is taken. In ( Job 1) and ( Job 2) " the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord" (angels) Satan showed up. So at this time Satan still had access to heaven. In ( Luke 10:18) Jesus said "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." Whether past or future? Whether it was his ranking or permanent?

Now in ( Revelation 12:7-17) and Revelation 13:1-2), the war in heaven where the red dragon and his angels are cast out into the earth. In verse 8 there is no more place for them in heaven. In verse 12 they are rejoicing in heaven and the warning, "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" because Satan knows he only has a short time.

My understanding, Revelation 12 starts the great tribulation when Satan is permanently cast down with no more access to heaven and gives his power seat and great authority to the beast. Revelation 12, if you look at the Greek it is Satan standing on the sand of the sea when the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit. ( Revelation 9:11) ( Revelation 11:7) ( Revelation 17:8).

May this help your study, you can use, bible simple search KJV, just type in to edge, google, yahoo or whatever search you use, also this site. Type in devil, Satan, and it will pull all scripture that contains these words you can study.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Dusty , this is my second reply to you , I've found the Bible references that I was thinking about , here they are , hope they help : Isaiah ch43 v8-12 and John ch15 v21-27 also Luke ch24v48 .

Hi Dusty , I can only tell you what I think , others may disagree . I believe that the two witnesses are the Israelites or Jews if you prefer , and the Christians . Somewhere , I think in Isaiah but I can't be sure without checking , God actually says , you are my witnesses , the Israelites in the desert and in Egypt before the dessert , witnessed amazing miracles and manifestations of God , I also believe that all the Jews who saw Jesus and the things he did by the power of his Father are witnesses , some of them believed and became what we call Christians , others rejected him . These are just my thoughts . Hope they help not hinder you .

If the fig trees and lamp stands represent jews and gentiles.are the two witnesses a people or person?

Hey Karl,

We see this is after the thousand years when Satan is released from the bottomless pit and goes out to deceive the nations. The army is as the sands of the sea and they surround the camp of the saints and Jerusalem. I feel the whole earth will be consumed, as we read in ( Malachi 4:1-3).

We see in verse 10 Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are and then in verse 11 God sitting on the great white throne and heaven and earth fled away from His face. Then He makes all new.

God bless,

RLW

Rev. 20:9.....fire devoured the armies...

############## families of above armies....##### what happens to these people

Rev. 21:1....new heaven and earth...

Thanks much

Karl McGuire sr.

Hey Karl my understanding is, may someone else have another view. John was given a vision of the new earth and where we will be, and in verse 10 we are told the time is at hand. Our time on this earth is short like in ( James 4:14), and we may not be here tomorrow and at death that's it, the door is shut there is no redemption after death. The righteous will still be righteous and the wicked will still be wicked. Verse 11 is a warning and a call for those that have not repented and excepted Jesus as their savior and time is running out.

We are all naturally unjust, and filthy because of sin in us, some of us have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. A righteous man is only righteous by the righteousness of Jesus. After the thousand years and judgment, only the righteous and holy will walk through those gates into the New Jerusalem, and verses 11 and 15 are those outside that are cast into the lake of fire, as we see in ( Revelation 21:8).

Dogs were not looked on as we look at them today, they were mostly wild cruel unclean filthy animals highly disliked, Jesus associated a woman of Canaan with dogs, but nothing unclean will enter the city. We have a choice, eternity with God and Jesus in beautiful new earth or the lake of fire.

God bless,

RLW

explain revelation 22:11 and revelation. 22:15

Thanks much

Rev;11 if you read it and observe the happenings in the world you will see that it is actually happening. The two witnesses are the Muslim people who lost there power, and now they will be destroyed by the beast.

The Holy Spirit is not around during the great tribulation, because, understand first that man brings all the miseries and poverty war,and famine disease flood and heavy typhoon to himself. He attracts it , because he choose evil works than righteousness, bringing death to himself. the Holy Spirit can not come to a person who does not accept GOD LMIGHTY.

AND THE TRIBULATION is man made as it has always been. Man creates this war and ,whoremongering idolatry, hence we are very close to the great tribulation

Glenn, thanks for your response: "If Jesus is coming here ,. An preparing for our Father to set up his kingdom, in Jerusalem, where is anyone being raptured to ? Where ya going ? I've heard of one rapture,.. but now 3 ? This is very confusing,.."

Precious friend, actually the confusion disappears when the THREE raptures "are LEFT In God's Contexts, Where HE Placed Them!" Amen? ie:

PRE-TOJT rapture:

(1) Body Of CHRIST Departure TO Heaven (Read/study Romans - Philemon) = God's 'Context' is ALL 'Spiritual!' We are not "looking for the man of sin/signs to enter into The Time of Jacob's Trouble." ( 2 Corinthians 5:7); We are "looking, watching, and Patiently waiting For CHRIST, Who Will Present ALL of The Body Of CHRIST, holy and unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, TO His Father, In Heaven, Where we Will Live Forever And Ever! ( 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22; 1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2) Amen?

MID-TOJT raptures:

(2) During The Time {God's 'Context'} of JACOB's {ISRAEL's} Trouble, there Will Be TWO "raptures":

a) one departure is of the TWO witnesses, killed, resurrected, and taken up ( Revelation 11:1-12)

b) the other departure is of the 144,000 "sealed virgins of TWELVE tribes ( Revelation 7:1-8) redeemed from the earth," and were "without fault before The Throne of God!" ( Revelation 14:1-5)

Please refrain from listening to those who "MIX these up" in confusion. And:

Please Be RichlyEncouraged, Enlightened,Exhorted, and Edified In JESUS CHRIST!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship, today?)

What more of a sign do the unbelievers need to be given to see prophesy unfold? You recognize the grizzle, but not the steak: 9-11-01 was the 5th trumpet, showcased in Revelation 9:1-11. It's obvious why are leaders chose that date, the same date Jews remember the destruction of both temples (Tisha b'Av), the assumed date of Jesus' birth. What else could it have been but the beginning of sorrows? The description of the war on terror takes us up to this very day, to the tail end of the 5th trumpet.....so how could you overlook such a catastrophic event that has dramatically changed our world? How can you deny the 5th trumpet order when it has been painfully played out over the past 20 years?

We are currently staring down the 6th seal ( Revelation 6:12-14) leading us into the day of the Lord, 6th trumpet when 1/3rd of the population dies from anti-christ's global attack.

Jesus' return at the time of the end is at the 7th trumpet, approximately 42 month after the 6th trumpet (anti-christ's rule). Jesus, with a new name, soundly defeats anti-christ ( Revelation 11:15).

The Bible has an order of prophetic events that unfold in their given time. If you are looking for Jesus Christ to show Himself in the clouds before prophesy is fulfilled, you are doing yourself and the Word a great disservice. How is it possible for 7th trumpet Jesus (Messiah) to show up before 6th trumpet Jesus (who comes like a thief to lay the land desolate)? Everything you profess has to fit in these established parameters, or you are preaching you own will. If you learn the last 3 trumpets, know where events fit in, you will begin to understand the order of the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Precious friend, Jesus Ortiz. Note: there are THREE future 'raptures.'

(1) God's Scriptures for The Great GRACE Departure {rapture} Of The Body Of CHRIST, BEFORE The Time Of Jacob's Trouble:

1 Corinthians 15:51-57

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "falling away" = THE Great GRACE Departure "away from earth"

God's Scriptures for departures {raptures} DURING The Time Of JACOB's TROUBLE:

(2) Revelation 11:1-12

(3) Revelation 14:1-5

Precious friend, Jesus Ortiz, Please Be RichlyEncouraged, Enlightened,Exhorted, and Edified! ( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship, today?)

Precious friends, look likes "Part I" did not get posted, so here it is:

Will God "rapture" the church out before the great tribulation? I believe By "studying God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided," we can ask HIM, "What Saith The SCRIPTURES"? Amen?:

Part I

PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure:

(A) God's TWO Different programs, Rightly Divided

(B) Distinctions Between GREAT GRACE Departure and Second Coming

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our COMFORT And Consolation. Amen. ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)

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(A) God's TWO Different programs, Rightly Divided:

Time Of JACOB's {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming, is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom ("ages" past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God's "Earthly Kingdom" Purpose From "the foundation of the world" ( Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied "since the world began" ( Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21)

Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That DIFFER:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST, Ending God's Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God { Current = "But NOW!" } (Romans through Philemon!)

God's "Heavenly Hidden" Purpose Before "the foundation of the world" ( Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret "since the world began" ( Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9)

to be continued in Part II...

The witnesses are the one hundred and forty four thousand sealed from death for 42 months. They are showcased in 7 different chapters of Revelation, in different capacities, allegories and metaphors. Like their appearance in Chapter 12; only the witnesses, (the 12 tribes) are sealed and protected for 42 months.

When the witness are called up to heaven ( Revelation 11:12) and they appear in heaven as the one hundred forty four thousand ( Revelation 7:13-14) after being sealed 42 months prior ( Revelation 7:1-8) They come out of the great tribulation!!!

( Revelation 11:4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. These 2 olive trees and 2 candlesticks are both houses of Israel, 2 nations, before God.

There is no separation between the witnesses and the sealed tribes, they are one in the same.

I long for the day of the Lord when the haughty get lowered, with a flame on every face. I understand what happens that day, I'm not taken by surprise, unlike those who think it to be a good day. I've had it up to my nostrils with the stench of US and world corruption, murder and mayhem. When God visits the backsliding whole house of Israel, their spoiling and treachery will come to a violent end. Esau, with God on His side, will be brought forth to obliterate Jacob to dust. I bet you've read it many times without understanding that the prophets were talking about us. So the day of the Lord will come, and the abomination of desolation will deliver fire from the south to the north, fulfilling God's Word.

Everything you hold dear about America, Jesus greatly despises. You stand in opposition to those that dwell in heaven. No matter how bold your words are, they fall short of what's written. Mystery Babylon America runs the show with her allies in crime, Europe, otherwise known as Babylon proper. Devices will darken every kingdom. The whole house of Israel used to be the head, but have since transitioned into the tail. When America/Israel bombs Iran's blossoming nuclear facility ( Revelation 6:14), know that ( Revelation 6:12) will soon follow. Do you notice that the 6th seal, vs 12, kick starts the 6th trumpet, day of the Lord? It's gonna be the greatest show on earth, bringing baldness and clean teeth. You should let go of her, come out of her, stop defending her.

( Revelation 6:12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Count me among them that break out in song when America's plot to rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years gets its due comeuppance. Good riddance 'greater Israel project'.

"God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided," Lets God "Say It":

Part III

The Second 'prophesied' Coming

Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That DIFFER:

The PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure, According to TheHeavenly'Mystery!':

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:

CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! ( Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With The Trump of God! ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will BringWithHim {those who Were With Him In Heaven},partOf His Own, those who are "asleep In JESUS!" ( 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13)

(4) CHRIST Descends WithOnearchangel, Will resurrect those asleep{in 3)}First, and Then, we "which are alive and remain," {which Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all "incorruptible, And Caught Up" together to meet The LORD in the air {NOT "all the way to the earth!"}, in the "twinkling of an eye!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53)

(5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body" To HIMSELF, to Take them To Heaven {OPPOSITE of earth}... ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1, 2; Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By The Head Himself!... ( Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12; 1 Corinthians 3:7-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25)

to be continued in:

Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!

Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... ( Ephesians 5:27)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father, In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen! ( 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22; 1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2)

Thus, we do "Know the order, and realize our place according to the grand scheme." = Today is GOD's PURE {Gospel Of} GRACE {Light} 'Offered' to all 'INDIVIDUALS,' and WHEN 'it ENDS' With HIS Great GRACE Departure {'Removing' ALL HIS 'ambassadors'}, only THEN Will Fall:

God's {OPPOSITE of GRACE} JUDGMENT In The Time of JACOB's TROUBLE {Tribulation, GREAT tribulation And Wrath in Woe, Dread, Terror, And DARKNESS}, for "ISRAEL And The UNbelieving Nations!"

Thus, question: Precious friend, WHY do you "DESIRE what is NOT our place according to the grand scheme"? ( Amos 5:18)

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LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD, Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope ofGlorification When You COME To Finally GATHER us HOME! Amen.

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our "place In The Grand Scheme"?:

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9) = Grace/Mystery 'fellowship,' today, Current, "But NOW!" Amen?

Precious friends, Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, Edified, And "COMFORTED With THESE Words Of God's Truth!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)

Revelation was written and represented in signs. meaning using people, persons (Warning examples of wicked people and their actions) to describe the message. for example, according to Revelations 6:1-8:

1.The Red Horse: Peace taken from the earth.. They will slaughter one another (Civil wars, the deadly war WWI & WWII etc.)

2. The Black Horse: (Famine The Great depression etc.)

3. The pale Horse: Deadly plague...The Grave/Death ( 1918 influenza pandemic, HIV, Flu, Common cold,

Covid-19,Delta variant etc.)

Why is the world in critical condition?

Satan was hurled down from heaven and is misleading nations rulers and kings:

1 John 5:19; Genesis 3; Genesis chapter 6 and 9;

Luke and Matthew 4; Ephesians 6:11-13; Revelation 12:7-12;

2 Corinthians 4:4

What is the result of Satan the devil's influence:

2 Timothy 3:1-7

Matthew 24

1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Ephesians 5:5

What will Jesus do since his father gave him all authority?

( Matthew 24:14;28:18-20)

1. Revelation 11:15;20 Chapter

2. Revelation 11:18

3. John 5:28,29; Revelation 21:3-5;22 Chapter

Who is law for?

1 Timothy 1:8-10

2 Timothy 3:16,17

john 17:3

Thank you brother Earl for many encouragements.

The 2 witnesses are not 2 people, and they are put right in front of your face, in several incantations. Who's sealed from death 42 months from both houses? Look a little closer at the definition of their description, they're there.

Glen,

I'm glad to see your understanding is consistent with scripture. If you notice there is an information gap between the first and second resurrections. For instance, ( Revelation 11:12) describes the one hundred forty four thousand being called up to heaven. You would think that this is the only resurrection because the saints appear alone on Mount Olives with Jesus at the seventh trumpet. The thousand year reign on earth cannot house the many billions that make up the the dead in Christ. The second resurrection comprises the "whole house of Israel" as depicted in ( Ezekiel 37:1-14). This doesn't count the 108 billion soles that have ever lived. This is why the new heavens and earth come about, to accommodate everyone.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 marks the first resurrection, but its presentation is incomplete and confusing. Are there elements of both resurrections here? There's no doubt that at the final trumpet everyone is changed. Paul is saying that all believers rise, but is he talking about the saints/ 24 elders being resurrected; when he says "we", is he talking about his set? If this is the dead in Christ resurrection, where do all the risen go to manifest themselves in the afterlife. There is never any mention of the dead in heaven, other than the saints. Are these believers being held in a unique place, other than joining the saints and elders? Are details being withheld till a later time when we're able to process it. Anything written past the seventh trumpet has been made confusing, details are withheld. It's as if the two resurrections have something in common with the sealed up seven thunders.

It is clear that there are gaps in the resurrection time-line, and the story is presented in a manner that merges the two resurrections together. Ideally, the first resurrection is for the saints/elders, and the second is for everyone else. However, I couldn't wholeheartedly sign off on a theory for the mentioned reasons.

Please do not say that God will "rapture" the church out before the great tribulation, or anytime other than at the end. Does it make sense that at the great tribulation that God seals the saints on earth against anti-christ's rule, while "rapturing" out sinners because we profess to be Christian's? You are appointed one death. Do you think God would "rapture" billions of Christian sinners, and leave His elect to battle to the death with anti-christ? That notion is absolutely preposterous, non-Biblical and has zero chance happening. You are conflating doctrines with man-made ones that have no merit. You didn't study it let alone think it through.

The first resurrection ( Revelation 11:12) takes place at the seventh trumpet when the mystery of God is finished. "Raptured" Christians are not part of the army (saints) standing on the hill with Christ, they are no where to be found in Revelation 14:1. If you were "raptured" where did you go that you're not part of God's army? Misleading people about a pipe dream has drawbacks in the eyes of God. Stop perpetuating a popular, yet unsubstantiated lie through false faith and poisonous divination. Christian's that think too highly of themselves will be greatly disappointed when darkness comes. Both the righteous and the wicked will die like they have in previous wars. Know the order, and realize your place according to the grand scheme.

Hi , I just wanted to say , that he comes as the anti-Christ , a Jesus wanna be , the great deceiver, I do not believe that he an his fallen angels will be killing people that do not worship him ,.. but you are absolutely right on one thing, a lot of people will certainly be fooled an follow him , it's the election that will not , an they will be delivered up , for a witness / testimony of the holy sprit , the only 2 people that will be killed by them is the 2 witnesses,..

peace

Amen and Amen, Brother Carleton.

I have a serious problem with the idea that taking the mark condemns you to hell. Are these survivors Christian's that should know better than to take the mark, but do so because they are lukewarm? Either way, you will take the mark cause your flesh is weak. We are human, corruptible, and as such we do sin that Christ has already covered on the cross, so what's going on here? Why are you so confused to misrepresent scripture, so it makes sense to you? Why can't you connect the dots using what God gave you?

You will take the mark to avoid being shot at, tortured, stabbed or killed. The ones taking the mark will do so to survive, their families, that's a natural response. If you don't the take the mark, you'll die of want, so why not kill yourself to save yourself? Killing yourself is a sin, but it's better than the mark, right? This amounts to false fear mongering, misinterpreting the end times, plain and simple.

Now listen to this: the refusal of the mark is addressed specifically towards the one hundred forty four thousand sealed saints from twelve tribes of Israel. They are the only ones strong enough to not take the mark. I know you never ever knew this truth before, and don't try to say you did. Just be glad you know now, and don't forget where you learned it, either. Everyone else during the great tribulation will be eating their portion of anti-christ's meat.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The last mark of the beast may be unbelief, where the salt has lost the saltiness.

Revelation 14

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive HIS MARK in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

If the Christian's true love is Jesus, then they as a members of the faithful bride, will not look for another husband for their protection.

If the two witnesses are the Word and the Spirit of Jesus Christ (we know Jesus is at the right hand of the Father and in the beginning the Word was with God) , the Bible teaches that Christians will be eradicated from the earth by the Beast.

So the Word and the Spirit would no longer deal with those who take the mark of the Beast, because they are damned to Hell.