Discuss Jude 1 Page 21

Reading the Book of Enoch recovered in modern times in Abyssinia, it answered so many questions I had in Genesis.

I don't know about quiting calling the devil a liar but rather quit disputing with the devil in terms of the sinful worldly nature of the human condition. In other words don't try to understand and dispute the devil through reason in pursuit of some ulterior motive, as oppossed to godly reason and godly motivation. (vs 4 and 10). How do you do that? Keep steadfast with the way of christ. How do you do that? verse 19 and 20 and 21 describe how you must not remain "sensual" or rather distant from yourself (aka selfless) and that you must pray *in* not *to* the holy ghost. What does that mean? well for me that means detaching yourself and allowing god to manifest from within so you embody christ (sort of like what happens when you die and if you "accept" christ in you're life he magically steps in front of you're tainted being full of sins.) Others might interpret this in light of praying *to* christ and *accepting* christ meaning you think of him often and actively keep him close by. However there clarifying this closeness as being close with the bible rather than from *within*. Do you see my point? He's discussing the potential faults that naturally come with the nature of the bible and it's flexible interpretive quality. He's saying mere scripture isn't were all the authority is coming from you have to let the scripture of the bible or christ from within in order to truly dispute the devil from a godly position. check out vs 24. This is a big question. How do you communicate with god and how do you act through god? What is motivating you? Is being simply conversant with the scripture enough? What does it mean to be conversant with the scripture keeping in mind it's flexible interpretive nature? If those who wrote the scripture are said to embody the holy ghost then how are mere sinners supposed to interpret such transcended speech? Where does the authority lie? I propose through a transcended lens, one that has at least glimpsed and experienced the holy ghost not merely been conversant with scripture through the lens of the sinful "sensual" mind. "prayer in the holy ghost".

On Butch's comment on 2011-07-27 17:23:09: the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be during the destruction

reaponse to Eahoue's u should read over verse 19 an 20. verse 19 stated "These be they who SEPERATE themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.
verse 20 mentioned " Praying in the Spirit. When the Holy Spirit is active in A believer's Life (one must be serving God in spirit and truth) he or she can absolutely pray in the Spirit.I have experience.you know that once we accept Jesus Christ in our lives we receive the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is not active in every one.

I love how verse 12 and 13 are so visual! They are really beautiful verses.

A beautiful verse if understood correctly. Since vs.19 infers that believers *have* the Spirit then *praying in the Spirit* would not make sense and be redundant.
I researched the Greek word *In G1722* and found that the preposition *to* makes better sense.

Jude 1:20 "Praying to the Holy Spirit (fully God)",
who teaches, guides, sanctifies, etc and speaks to us makes much better sense.
Would we not converse back? This is a form of trust, love, worship, prayer and fellowshipping.

@ Travis: I don't think having passions for something is necessarily wrong; however, when you don't put God first, than I feel it becomes wrong.

Verse 6. These are the angels that are spoken of in chapter 6 of Genesis who left heaven, their first estate, and took woman as play things and made geber babies trying to stop Gods plan. These follow satan and will be releast and will return wiith him for 2 and half months. At the return of the true Christ they will be die.

Gain as godliness. Who are those who preach gain as godliness? If you see a supposed preacher of the gospel and they teach the doctrines of Korah or the doctrines of Balaam. Are they truly a preacher of the Gospel of The Christ? Why are we taught to covet, name and claim in faith? better yet, why are people so deceived by this doctrine? Because we are not selfless, we are selfish. Study the doctrine of Korah and Balaam, see how the Lord used Balaam and then compare their fruit to your own favorite preacher, Church building. Have you been decieved by the lust and desires of your own heart? And now areyou unwilling to repent, because you may have to give it all up. The sun rises on the righteous and unrighteous. Rain falls on the godly and ungodly. Just because you have plenty, is that really a blessing or a curse? What do you think about the most, talk about the most, what do you do the most? Theres your gods. Are you severing God or Mammon? How about your church or Pastor? You can tell them by their fruit. And you are to judge from within not from without. Read Colossians 3 and tell God where your entire being should be looking towards and you wont fall for the teacher, Jude is warning you of in these passages. And quit calling the devil a liar. Even Micheal didn't, who are we to do what even the powerful Micheal didn't do.

sorry, jennifer, both you and wesley are way off. do you know the only reason that interpretation was used was because people just found it too incredible? but isnt the Bible filled with the incredible? angels were not supposed to, but these were FALLEN angels, who were attempting to contaminate the human bloodline and stave off the birth of Jesus. you'll notice that noah is described as "perfect in his generations", meaning exactly what it says, his bloodline was not polluted. even jude 1:6-7 says 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire". so yes angels are not supposed to have sex w/ humans but these guys did and were punished. the "myths" of zeus, apollo, and hercules were all true. the fallen angels claimed to be gods and the people worshipped them. the giants were called "heroes, men of renown". nothing i say is unBiblical. the Bible doesnt get into it but the inferences are there. the book of enoch is more descriptive. the book of enoch is considered apochrapal because of its subject matter and was taken out of the Bible by the catholic church. but several copies of the book of enoch were found w/ the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Mistake, I left one 3 zero's off the 250, million Africians dying of starvation.

It makes me sad that so many may live in eternity without knowing the love of God. It is awful to live on earth without knowing Gos's love and His power in us, through His Holy spirit, to overcome evil, let alone wasting what we could have been in eternal darkness. I cannot fathom how evil some are in the flesh, in that human life has little or no value to them, and they will shed innocent blood, like the 250,000 Africans dying of hunger right now. Having free will is a blessing not a curse. It makes us responsible for our thoughts, and actions, while having the ability to live in the glory of God forever. The most important it makes us able to know God's all inclusive, eternal love, and to know Him personally. What an honor, to BE A PART OF SUCH A MAGNITUDE OF LIFE, AND and what a waste, TO SPOIL IT ALL IN A SELFLESS, egotistic WAY of life. God cannot bless evil in any form. His blessings are without measure, and can only be known in His light.

to davids comment about being burned to ashes.....all christians will get a glorified body that will never die so we can live forever with the lord, and the same hold true for those that dont make it to heaven they also will get a glorified body that will never die but it will be in hell weeping and gnashing of teeth for and enernity

Ibelieve that God took aaway not only their habitation, but darkness is used to show their knowledge and understanding wa removed. Had satan kept his knowledge and wisdom he would never have crucified Christ. To me chains under darkness means without understanding of God's plans and his Church.

The beast (one world political system forming together and the first step is peace but can't be done because of a deadly wound so one country pulls out these first set of kings are flesh men but then a man who is a supernatural show up and we have a religious. False prophet know as an antichrist which stands for instead of jesus and he brings 10 supernatural kings that are releasted from the pit jude 1:6 at that great day also now Count means a smoothing down and counting stones warn down over many years or generations over the years, talking a wicked generation and spoken of as a small people who work and help antichrist. What they are is kenites at the time or locust he brings with him. They are actors as priest wearing iron breastplates as our Jewish Priest wore with stones for each of the tribes but thes sissy soft spoken long haired not that they have long hair but it means soft actings like you seen on T.V. " come to Jesus" we`ll healed you, just bring your daughter or son to death! Mother against brother father against daughter because these believer for death think he is Jesus and they want to save the child soul and the satans priest will ripp their familys souls away from them like a lions teeth all this will take place for 30 minutes of the hour of temptation and it all starts at the 6th trump,6th seal, and the 6th vial which is Phialie and that's a broad shallow cup and it pours quickly. All happens fast so watch and be ready for the five months of the harvest and don't be caught or harvested out of season

How does one believe to receive from the Lord? Believe can refer to various applications. To believe in Jesus for salvation; means to rely on his promises, as we actively receive them into our lives. In our V.23, Jesus is saying, "All things are possible to him that believes" for them to happen. I have read that Drs. say faith is a contributing factor in healing, possibly any faith. However, a solid basis for faith i.e. the power and promises of Almighty God is more ehhective. I believe that the faith Jesus had and entrusted to us, ( Jude 1:3) should be received and spoken into action in order to be truly effective in any work of God.

V.23. Does one have to believe to be healed? Here are some thoughts from a layman. I think "believe" can refer to various applications. To believe in Jesus for salvation, means to trust / rely on his promises as we personally recieve them / Him into our lives. In our V.23, it seems Jesus is saying, "All things are possible to him that believeth" (trusts/relies on them to happen.) In 1 Cor.14:22, I think "believe" refers to believing in spiritual gifts, in addition to believing in Jesus as Savior. I have read that Doctors say, faith is a contributing factor in healing. Probably any faith. However; active faith in the present unlimited healing power of a caring almighty God is more effective. I believe that the faith of Jesus, entrusted to his own ( Jude 1:3), should be recieved and spoken into action, in order to be truly effective in any work of God.

When scanning the Bible uses of the word "Faith" it most often indicates a living, active, factor that connects one to the supernatural works of God, rather than an intellectual belief system of doctrinal truthes. The Apostles said, "Increase our faith" & Jesus often said, "Thy faith has made thee whole". "Faith as a mustard seed", & "if you have faith and doubt not", suggest a personal facet that releases God to do what He wanted to do. Jude seems to be saying that the faith the annointed one had, was entrusted to his followers to use until he comes again. "Occupy till I come" (Lu. 19:13.)

Jude 1:4, I would like to say this. It would appear that the men of old that return are likely demons who were condemed here; condemnation occuring when they are to crawl upon thier bellies and eat dust. Jesus came to us, Eliajah returned to us, perhaps Enoch returned to us although this is speculation. So why would demons not be able to come in men also; born or in possession. The man of sin is a great example, the man of sin must be one whom sin was born of in order to gain this title. As far as we know sin was born from satan who committed the first sin. Only food for thought.

hi, david that refers to the angriness or wrathfulness of those who will not be saved and will be burned in hell...

if on the day of judgement when God destroys the earth and heavens and creates knew ones,and the wicked and all that is on earth is burned to ashes and is NO MORE then why will there be wailing and gnashing of teeth?

I know Jude was speaking from the Spirit and sent to warn us, he said those of you who are "called" that's ultimately remarkable, because not all of "us" are-

THE faith. About 5 times, the K.J.V. has "Faith of Christ", and other versions have reduced this to "faith in Christ", suggesting our faith rather than his faith in us. Here Jude states that a faith package was delivered or entrusted to those made holy in Christ. We are joint-heirs with Christ. Jesus entrusted his power to his servants while he went to a far country for a time. (see Lu. 20:9). As I understand it, Jude is saying Jesus entrusted his faith to his followers for us to apply in our world unto his glory. Awesome.

My opinion. This flood of Noah`s was a located flood and was to wipe out evil and was to wipe out the sons of God in Genesis 6 the sons that left their first estate,heaven, to take wives. They were trying to stop the progress of God sending Jesus, immanuel, God with us and the angels of satan are evil and enjoyed woman as play things and had children, giants.angels or messengers are not much different body wise. Remember we ate manna 40 years on the desert, that's Angels food and Angels look just like us, well, I'm old, angels look like young men, a little different puddy/skin. David killed one. The serpent beguiled (nasha means seduce completely) and in Gen.3:15 the enmity between seeds (zera,means generation, posterity,the successive descendants of a person,generations not yet borned) and from this we see the Parable of the Sower Matt.13:37 to 44. satan, sends his. In Gen. 4:2 we see And "she again" again in Hebrew "Yacaph" meaning to continue# 3205 this is notes wrote in ink in my Bible and I think they are the right numbers, oh, beguiled # 1816 and check out 2nd Corinthians 11:3 but eve had cain and Anyway it was for a reason of that area because satan and his evil crew were there and they didn't care about the rest of the world just the evil that they injoy to do. In Jude 1:6 AND THE ANGELS WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE...( HEAVEN) BUT LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION,.. and at this time they are chained and waiting. They were trying to destroy Gods plans. This flood was targeted. The first flood Jeremiah was total wilderness, no trees,no birds, and no Noah or family or boat. The flood in the book of Jeremiah God says in Hebrew He took it by His Hand and sunk it in water and washed it and we see it when on the desert and see sea shells and other things a person runs across that should be some place different. I think God can do anything God wants to do. He protected this letter so I can get home and its just like He wants me to have it and for anyone who loves Him, we all have a choice. People don't realize how serious this time is. Oh, yeah! Its just a short period but its a test. Love God and do good and come home. Or love evil and do evil and gone. The 6th day creation were just fine on that first influx. Yes, 2 of every flesh got on the boat and show up in 1st Chronicles 2:55 kenites, sons of cain and this scribes I'm pretty sure its accounting, they helped with the money, bad thing to have a kenite around ur money. I`ll check it out. Anyway talk later. G

One person here got it right. This is about the fallen angels and the fate that awaits them... Be watchful, they're coming back!

I believe that the sons of God were angels and that they took wives and produced children. Jude 1:6. This is scripture that is very confusing and needs more clarity. The book of Job speaks of these sons of God as well.

Satan the enemy that sowed the tares ,kenites[ sons of cain] is the wicked one in Matthew 13:36 to 40. And I was talking about the angels that left their first estate and cme to earth in Genesis 6 is also in Jude 1:6.

@justsomeguy151

Once again I must assert that this verse is not referring to fallen angels. Take a look at the Book of Enoch as compared to the rest of the Holy Scriptures. The Holy Scriptures often repeat themselves, however the Book of Enoch mentions things that no other book even bothered to mention. It also uses words such as "Ages" and the "elect". When I read things like that, about the "lord of the ages" or how the "elect" will be blessed...well, let's just say that those words scream the illuminati.

It is written: "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24 KJV. Yet, the Book of Enoch says this "The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked ⌈⌈and godless⌉⌉ are to be removed."

Open your mind for a minute and try to think why this book hasn't been accepted into the Canon. It's just like the rest of the Apocrypha - Vastly different from any other Canonical book.

The Book of Enoch also makes references to several angels. Here are some angels of note: Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel. However, Michael and Gabriel are the only angels mentioned in Canonical text. Uriel and Raphael, however, are mentioned in the Apocrypha. Putting the Apocrypha aside, how can we be led to believe that Uriel and Raphael, if they were real angels, weren't even important enough to mention in the rest of the scriptures if they play such a huge role in this supposedly important book? And, remember that Michael is actually Jesus Christ, for the name Michael actually means "He who is like GOD", therefore the only angel mentioned by name in the Canonical texts is Gabriel.

Also, you keep bringing up the existence of giants. I never argued against their existence. The Bible clearly states that they existed.

The Bible also assert's that Enoch existed. I never said he didn't. I also never said he wasn't a prophet. But you can't take the ONE cross reference between The Book of Enoch and The Book of Jude and just jump to the conclusion that The Book of Enoch is a Holy Book and that the early church rejected it because they were either misinformed or they were trying to hide something from the people.

You also make mention of Jude 1:6. How can one assume that Jude 1:6 is talking about the "fallen angels" from the Book of Enoch? Did you not forget that one-third of the angels in Heaven fell with Lucifer after they tried to stage a coup against the throne of GOD? I would assert that THESE are the angels that Jude is referencing here. It mentions this in Revelation 12:4 - "And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.”

You also mentioned this: "all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon..."

Why should that make a difference? All of those civilization believed in pagan forms of worship, not Judaism or Christianity. What they believed has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion at all, nor does it have anything to do with the Bible.

"as for the book of enoch being a lost book. in ethiopia it was never lost. they have had it since forever. so the book was NEVER lost."

The Book of Enoch was considered to be a lost book for over 2000 years until 1773, when James Bruce returned from Ethiopia with three copies of it. Could it have existed for those 2000 years? Maybe. Did the church know about it or have it in their possession? No. Therefore it was lost to GOD's people.

Enoch was a prophet, but he didn't write this book. It's nothing but a farce - something to take your mind away from the truth, from the way things truly are, the things that truly exist, and, most importantly, GOD.

the sons of God ARE fallen angels, who breeded with human women, and the offspring was giants. there is no other way to interpret this. nowhere does it say that seth's offspring and cain's offspring were forbidden to marry. angels can take any form they choose, especially human form. didn't Lot originally believe the angels were simply travelers? didn't Jacob wrestle an angel? so although they are supernatural beings, they CAN take physical form. the original giants were up to "3000 ells" tall. we don't know exactly how big that is but I would guess 100 ft tall. by the time giants like Goliath were around the potency of the bloodline had abated, resulting in smaller giants. I would guess that Goliath was 9-12 ft tall. Og, king of Bashan was 16 ft tall. So it seems that giants could be many different sizes. There are verses which state that some giants had 6 fingers and 6 toes. there have been many dead or fossils of giants found that have 6 fingers, 6 toes and sometimes double rows of teeth.
there has been much debate about the authenticity of the book of Enoch. One author i've read, L.A. Marzulli, said that the early church accepted the book of enoch and it wasn't until later that it was rejected. it is written in the first person but the one difference between enoch and any other prophet with a book is that enoch never died. so if he indeed wrote a book, wouldn't it be different? there are also numerous refernces to enoch in the Bible. there are also references in the Bible to the invasion of fallen angels. Jude 1:6 "6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day". paul instructs a woman to cover her head I Corinthians 11:10, "because of the angels". the UFO phenomenon today is similar to when fallen angels came down before. the Flood was to destroy all life, the evil of man and the contamination of the earth by the giants.
all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon, ...the list goes on and on. the fallen angels/sons of God point of view is completely consistent with the Bible. as for the book of enoch being a lost book. in ethiopia it was never lost. they have had it since forever. so the book was NEVER lost.

This portion of the Blble is reminding Christains of the fact that Evil exist in the world but that make Jesus Your focus will always keep you from falling because he has gotten a name which superceeds any existing Name on earth,and in Heaven but if we compromise we will be ensave by the evil.