Discuss John 6 Page 17

Some have said that the word rapture is not in the bible. Does it matter? Everyone knows what it means. Caught up to be with the Lord in the sky.

years ago i heard a man say that the church is man made ,and at the end of times more people will be in home

fellowships where did he get this ?

Adam,

I apologize for making the devil comment seemingly directed at you. Please forgive me.

What I meant to say was that the devil is behind the Protestant division. He hates the Eucharist as it is such a personal love gift from Jesus to His people.

So the perfect storm happened with Father Martin Luther in 1400s to break off a branch of revolutionaries from "under the thumb" of the Catholic Church into a new dissident group called Protestants which allowed them to do away with many of the fundamental teachings and authority of the Church. You can be assured that the devil was behind this fiasco as he hates the Catholic Church as well.

So Protestantism was able in one fell swoop to get rid of Jesus' priesthood, His established government, His Mass, His Eucharist, and the rest of His grace giving sacraments (save Baptism thanks be to God) etc. This is how the devil has tricked multiple generations of people and deprived them of the full benefits of the Church that Jesus established. This is also why there are more than 30,000 different Christian denominations because there is no authority to govern the splinters and the interpretation of the bible. The Bible needs the Church for true interpretation not visa versa. Without that, 2 people can interpret the same passage different ways and they both can't be right (this thread is an example) and therefore, that is why there are so many different denominations.

So, I rest my case that the fullness of Jesus plan is for us to "all be one" in the Catholic Church that He established, guides and nourishes at every moment. IMHO, there will be a reunification of the Protestants with the Catholic Church and this may happen by the end of the year. If you think that much of a change is impossible, just look what has happen to our world in less than a year. The devil is in his last temper tantrum - fear, division and ultimately the antichrist's appearance. We live in exciting times. Hold on to your booties!

Dear Mike, I am willing to continue this discussion as long as you use respectful language.

In your first paragraph you asked a couple questions that seem to be loaded with assumptions. I have no idea where those assumptions even come from.

At the end of your first paragraph you mention Peter as head of his church? I don't interpret the verse that way at all. Jesus is the head of the church, not a man or anyone else. You can view a commentary on this on this website which explains it in detail: Link

In your second paragraph you make a case for 'priestly succession', but I believe this conclusion is based on misinterpretions of the scripture. Jesus already said he's the way, no one else. He's the door, no one else. No hierarchy or priesthood is supported by the scriptures as an arbitrator between you and God. The Bible says church can have its own minister, elders and deacons, but that's only for church management, not for a relationship between you and God. Jesus is the way, he's the only way. There's no where in scripture saying people need to pray to a pope and have graven images of them. It says the opposite, though.

I hope when that one on one with Jesus comes that I am ready in his eyes! I am a firm believer in God and Jesus and everything the Bible says they did and everything they said to everyone. Thank you Jesus for all you have done for us and thank you God for creating this world we live in and there is not one word about you or the Bible I do not believe unless it comes from somewhere else other than the Bible! Love you and believe in you until the day Jesus comes, Amen

(continued with Adam as I ran out of counter)

Have you not asked other people to pray for you or for some special intention that you have? I'm guessing you have. Why do you do that? Are you not putting a man/woman in-between you and Jesus? Jesus established a new priesthood in the apostles and put Peter as head of His Church on earth ( Mat 16:18+).

The Acts of the Apostles shows in numerous places about priestly succession as well as succession of Peter after he died. Jesus knew his apostles were going to die and designed His Church to continue till the end of time with a priesthood to administer His Sacraments which meant someone else would need to replace Peter as head of the Church and receive the power of the "keys". If you don't like the way Jesus set up His Church government, talk to Him. Technically, the Pope has only invoked the power of Infallibility less than a handful of times and usually not without consulting his advisors. The Lord's Peace brother.

Hello, I'm secure in what the Bible says and means. Have you prayed to God to reveal the truth to you? Please be respectful and don't say things like 'the devil has tricked you', because others can say that right back to you. God bless you.

Dear Adam,

I do believe Jesus spoke in parables and I'm sure you will agree that he spoke literally as well. New Testament refers to Jesus as the paschal/passover lamb ( 1 Corinthians 5:7). Vegan Jews didn't skip eating the lamb at the Passover - eating the flesh was a requirement to fulfill God's ultimatum. When Jesus said we are to eat and drink his flesh and blood he meant it.

You cherry picked the John 6 passage. Continue on:

55For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?"

61When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?

66From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"

If Jesus was speaking symbolically, He would have called those who were leaving and said "Wait a minute, here's what I really meant." No He didn't and to make the point He was willing to have his apostles go away if they didn't believe what he said. The Eucharist is the ultimate "call to Faith" that Jesus gave the members of His Church and the ultimate gift. The saying of a couple in love saying "I could just eat you" - well in this case, Jesus meant it. He is the manna for the Journey, the living bread, the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the crown jewel that the Protestants threw out when rebelling. And as for the Pope, read up on when Jesus gave Peter the "keys" and what that means. That should resolve your Pope issues and succession. Joseph in the old testament had the "keys" to Egypt. Also remember, the Church came 400 years before the Bible. The bible has truth, but not the whole truth. That is found in the Tradition of the Catholic Church. "Eat my flesh and drink my blood" - NOT SYMBOLIC. The devil has tricked you. God's blessings brother.

Hi Coleen,

First of all, my sister, I pray that you will return to the one True Faith, the Catholic Church, the one Jesus founded. I think you will be given that opportunity very soon. As for your specific comment about "Father", your interpretation was taken literally and out of context. Context is CRITICAL when interpreting the Bible.

Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul's statement, "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" ( 1 Cor. 4:14-15).

Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: "She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" ( 1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, "Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children" ( 2 Cor. 12:14); and, "My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!" ( Gal. 4:19).

John said, "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" ( 1 John 2:1); "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth" ( 3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as "fathers" ( 1 John 2:13-14).

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests "father."

Come home dear sister!

Hi Mike,

I'd like to share an alternate viewpoint if you are open to it.

Do you believe that Jesus often spoke parables? These stories and metaphors were a means for teaching and he explained why he used them: Luke 8:10

So, when Jesus said to eat his flesh and blood in John 6:53 did he literally mean to kill him and resort to cannibalism? I believe not, based on all his previous metaphors. Even his followers knew it was symbolic, but didn't quite understand the symbolism yet.

Jesus also said a few verses earlier in John 6:35 that he's the bread of life. Does that mean he's literally a loaf of bread walking and talking? It was a metaphor.

Jesus also explained the purpose of communion in Luke 22:19. Do it in remembrance of Him. If the goal was to literally eat and drink Jesus then you would think he would not have said this. It suggests the whole purpose of communion is to remember Jesus and His sacrifice for our sins and not that we're supposed to literally eat and drink him as food.

Also Jesus says John 14:6, John 10:9, Acts 4:12 that he's the only way for salvation. Not a man. So, I feel if a religion uses another man, like a Pope, in-between you and Jesus that you must go through then it is a false teaching inconsistent with scripture.

God bless!

If Catholics knew who the Father was I would have stayed on board. (Since most of us here in the US has that family background, which was changed in Massachusetts many years ago from being a Prodestant nation. But after denouncing the Catholic church and studying the King James Holy Bible, I discovered all the things the Catholic church practices is not biblical in fact everything they do goes against scripture.

Here's just the first one.....

Matthew 23:9

"And call nomanyour father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

King James Version (KJV)

Protestants do not believe in the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. but this gift from Jesus has been perpetuated thru the Mass from the very beginning of the Church when Jesus instituted it at the last supper. "This is my Body" "This is my blood" no room for wiggle nor symbolism. Up unto the protestant revolution, there was only the Catholic/Christian Church and Christians believed that Jesus was substantially in the bread and wine after the consecration. Even Paul chastised people for eating and drinking the Lord unworthily and will be held guilty of profaning the body and blood of Jesus. He wouldn't say that if it was just symbolic. Check out "Eucharistic Miracles" via Google. What more intimate union could Jesus leave us than to leave His flesh and blood to nourish ourselves with for the journey home? He is God's "manna". In a backhanded compliment, why do you think satanists in their black Mass use a consecrated Catholic Host to perform their blasphemies. Why do you think it was mandatory that the Jews eat the lamb to complete the Pascal/Passover meal. It was a premonition of what Jesus was going to do at the Last Supper.

Soon, very soon, Jesus is going to have a "one on one" with everyone in the world about the state of their soul as He sees it (See the book "The Warning" by former atheist Christine Watkins). He will also make everyone aware that He is God and that the Catholic Church is the church that He founded and wants people to belong to because it is the surest route to Heaven via His grace giving sacraments.

So, yes, if you are not Catholic, you are not "technically" fulfilling this command of Jesus. So, come aboard. We have plenty of room for sinners wanting to become saints.

Hi Mike,

I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you think only a Catholic can follow Jesus's instruction?

So, if you are not Catholic, you are not fulfilling this command of Jesus.

J. Reid from Canada :),

T. Levis from USA

This is a hugely debated issue within churches 4 sure.

John 13:34-35

Romans 16:17-18

2 Timothy 2:14-15

If there isn't a rapture could it be the cause of a great falling away?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Revelation 6:8-11

GOD be with us all who believe, love & trust HIM, to strengthen, hold, protect & keep us faithful

Jude 1:24-25

John 10:28-29

Genesis 5:21-24

2 Kings 2:11

Mark 16:19

Acts 1:6-9

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Mathew 24:37-46

I hope these are helpful

Glad to hear ! Yes The Church will prevail by Jesus . It's not too late for others to repent and get right with God , as in the seven Churches . Jesus knows all and will not except a Luke warm church .

Read revelation 20 v 4 ,5 , 6

This is the First Resurrection . And all that believe in Jesus . John chapter 6 v 39 , 40

Jesus said He is the resurrection in John 11 v 24 , 25, 26

What people often refer to the rapture is actually the first Resurrection. There are not two Resurrections for Gods saints .

That makes no sense at all .

There are many more scriptures , but these should be enough . This is Jesus own words and teaching , are mans more correct ? That's why I find it easier to believe Jesus than any man .

2 Timothy 3 v15,16,17 are essential to practice or deception is probable these days . Since the 1800s we have been bombarded with heresy and cults . Look at all the date setters proven wrong . The list is long .

This is prophetic, a time to come - treasure was heaped up FOR the last days...

Good day:

My question concerns the meaning and/or use of the word "rapture." Through my recent study of God's Word, my understanding of the word, rapture is to depart as departure, leave, exit, caught up, etc.



Many fellow believers believe in pre, mid, or post Tribulation. Others do not believe in a Rapture. This has caused much confusion on my part.

My question has 2 parts: What is the True Meaning of Rapture and When does the Rapture Occur? [Scripture supported answers]

Thank you, Kindly

God bless

J. Reid from Canada

Thanks Bob:

Yes I do agree, and I am grateful that Jesus has already forewarned us. We should be paying attention to the signs.

Only the father knows the actual day . But all the signs Jesus plainly told us , like for example the moon goes red the sun goes dark , armies of the world surround Jerusalem.

And the Antichrist must appear after the following away .

Yes be ready to go through much , The Lord will be our way through it all . Amen !

Did the new church honored the Sabbath?

I admit 2 god that i am not living fully theway ishould do u think by asking him for something i want he would bless me with it?

I can't think off hand of any biblical reference to 'person/persons' to the Deity, as this seems to rather be our own use of such words to describe the Triune God.

However, I think it's interesting your mention of the meaning of 'being made in the Image of God'. If we understand the Trinity to be Almighty God expressing Himself in His Word & His Spirit, which 'persons' He can send forth whenever & wherever He chooses as part of His Existence & Activity, then true, the creation of man cannot be compared to the tri-personage of God. We are essentially spirit, clothed in a body & with a mind & conscience akin to the Deity, yet far removed from Him. Probably, Adam & Even in their unfallen state, would more closely resemble the Image of God portrayed to us, by their purity, innocency, obedience, etc., all of which were corrupted by the fall & now our inescapable lot.

Therefore, it is my understanding that the 'Image of God' application to mankind can't be an exact replica of the Godhead, in as far as Who God is, but rather, having been endowed with sufficient godly qualities & abilities (though now corrupted by sin), we can now identify more closely with our Maker, in understanding His Word, His Love, & reflecting these & other divine qualities to others around us. So for necessity sake, our sins & fallen nature had to be dealt with at the Cross, so that we may have at least a renewed, enlivened spirit that brings us back into harmony with God's Purposes for His children. Though still in a weak & corrupted body, our spirits now long for the One Who longingly waited for us, so at least a part of our personal trinity (spirit, soul & body) may now be acceptable to Him: by His Grace & Power alone.

Is the word "person or persons" associated to the Godhead anywhere in the scriptures?

The reason I ask is this; if we are made in the image of God, then nowhere in the scriptures does it state that we have three persons in our being as God created us!....hence how are we to understand the epistemology of Genesis 1:26?

Verse 2 wants us to have a prosperous soul which is of the inside. It is the prosperous soul that manifest in the physical that brings about good health and prosperity. The Devils should not limit us in any way. We shall live in health and prosper.

Prayer and fasting

He's preaching from the book of acts 3000. Does anyone know what that is? Just curious...

Hi Bob, are you speaking of Amillenialism?

Carleton

The word rapture is not found in the Word of God, but 1Thessalonians 4:17 reveals that the saints who are alive and remain at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ shall be caught up together with them (those who have fallen asleep in Christ), in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The words being "caught up" is the Resurrection of the Saints. I do not believe that we should form an opinion of whether or not He is coming pre, mid, or post tribulation. The truth of the matter is Jesus already told us we don't know the day or the hour when the Son of Man is coming, so how is it that we are having disputes over when He's coming. Jesus said, "Watch, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that ye think not." Matthew 24:44 & Luke 12:46

What is Jesus saying, He is saying that we must be ready at all times. For He is coming as a thief in the night!