Discuss John 6 Page 11

Actually, I don't see much difference between the two phrases; it's probably just how one expresses his belief, using a different preposition. Compare John 6:29; Romans 4:24, with John 14:1; 1 Peter 1:21. You might not see too much difference.

Now, if the contrast was 'believing in God' to 'believing about God', then the difference is clearer, where one has put his love & trust in his heavenly Father, & the other has a belief or understanding about God's Nature & Works without necessarily having an intimacy with God. Others here may have other thoughts to help you.

Great reply Ronald.

I believe all through the scripture it supports the view the Holyspirit empowers the believer and as the scriptures you pointed out it took the dwelling of the Holyspirit to perform in them to minister under this new covenant. You see it in the life of Peter here in Luke 22:32. When was Peter strengthened and start to perform? It's obvious in scripture after he was empowered. Christ was preaching his death and resurrection, but they couldn't receive it. In Luke 18:31-34. he declared to them what the Prophets has written, and they still couldn't grasp it because it hidden from them.

Also, in John 16:12-14. seems to suggest the same thing. The preaching of the Cross was hidden from their eyes, and it seems Paul is mentioning the same thing throughout his epistles speaking of the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:7-14.

The Holyspirirt is essential for understand and walk. Once he reveals his truth to us they're written on our hearts it takes him to exercise those truths in us and perfect our walk. we respond to the truth by the power of the Holyspirit, likewise the Apostles.

For it is God which worketh in you both to "will" and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63.

The bible is not like our textbooks in school, what we have here has to be revealed to you, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.

Also: 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

You see the Holyspirits power over the flesh in Romans 8:1-14.

You see the Holyspirirt working in us through baptism given us power to cease from sin in Romans 6:1-18.

You see the contrast of the two natures in Romans 7:1-6. and so on. Here we see the contrast of what we had when we were under the law compared to what we have in Christ.

God bless.

Donna,

I think that doubt is just part of the fallen human condition.

Jesus did not reject Thomas for doubting the report of His resurrection from his fellow disciples. Jesus showed up at a time He knew Thomas was present. Jesus will "show up" for us. Too. When we doubt.

I had a time if tom 2002-2005 where I was discouraged, wounded, and questioned my faith and doubted big time. But what brought me out of it was this word from the Spirit to me when I was at my lowest: Lord. To whom else shall we go? For You have the words of eternal life.

John 6:6

Just know that I have been a believer all my life and even after following Jesus for 40+ years, I went through this valley, and Jesus showed up in through these words the Spirit brought to my mind. This experience made me stronger and even more determned to follow Jesus because I realized. Really, there is no other option but Jesus for the life that is really worth living as we live it in the Resurrection power of Jesus

So be encourage in doubts, cry out to Gid and He will "show up" so You might believe amidst the doubts, tears, and, discouragement.

Hi GiGi. I often think of John 6:66-69 when confronted with the thought of the disciples' spiritual condition: "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

There were those of Jesus' other disciples (other than the 12), who turned their backs to the Lord, but the 12, bar Judas, remained faithful even though their love & faith in the Lord were often severely tested. As Peter exclaimed, 'to whom can we turn to, to receive the words of eternal life, You the promised Messiah of God?' Maybe, our expectations of the disciples are oddly higher than for the rest of us, given their personal encounter with Jesus & witness of His Glory & Power. But we fail to remember that they were like us in every way, with their doubts, fears, & questions, & they could hardly envisage how their lives would change when the Holy Spirit would one day empower them to live for the Lord, to teach the Truths of God & one day to die for Him. These traits should be characteristic of each one of us who have been touched & changed by God's Spirit, or else we would be mere followers, ever hungering, walking unsteadily, living with doubts & fears. "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

That's a question which many have pondered over. However, when people ask such a question, they generally begin with 'God having chosen some to belong to Him & have rejected others consigning them to suffering in Hell'. Yet, in my understanding, the start of it doesn't begin with God choosing, but with God knowing. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God" ( 1 Peter 1:2); or, 'being a part of the elect of God because of God's foreknowledge of every person'.

We believe in an Omniscient God, that is a God Who knows all things, the complete lives of people (before their birth till the day of their death) & every event in Heaven & on Earth that may not even had a beginning as yet to us. Psalm 139:1-16 is a great Psalm showing both the omniscience & omni-presence of God & as David said in verse 6: "Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it." Such knowledge is only in God's domain, not just of all things present, but also of all things before they come to pass or into being.

So when we read a verse as you shared, John 15:16, we see that Jesus chose His disciples to belong to Him & to perform His Will. But how did Jesus know whom to choose out of the great number of eligible men that lived there? Was it just a good guess on His part, though one chosen was wicked ( John 6:70)? Or maybe, the night he spent in prayer with His Father ( Luke 6:12,13), was also a night of the Father's instructions on the men to select from all those who followed Him. So we see here, that before choosing them to go out to serve, they first had to be the ones whom God knew would be responsive to His Son.

Once we understand this, then we won't see God as being an unjust God showing partiality. That those who come to Him in faith through His Son are those not being forced to do so, but are those whom God already knew of before their birth (as David did). And those who are "destined for Hell", choose to go there, God knowing the path their lives would take.

John 6:39-40, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Revelations 1:7, hopefully these are helpful.

Explain Jesus wil raise him up in the last days John ch

Dear "Daniel".

In peace. God does not take back gifts He has given first! Turn from that path right away in Jesus' Holy Name. In Him there is no changing shadow, or no change at all. Who is changing? We do! Beloved and gracious brethren of the Kingdom of heaven.

When you now see this, you read the Word of God that frees you from this you are struggling with. Jesus says: He is the Way of Truth and Life.

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He also says: John 6:37 All that the Father has given me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Bring back the gift of grace that He has given you. Confess your sins and return to God and the Lord Jesus in the Kingdom of the Holy Spirit. Believe in Jesus Christ my friend. I love u in Christ and pray.

Apologies Billy. I read your comment to Adam in a different way.

You're correct, Jesus' Name is not seen there in John 1:1-14, but who then is John the Apostle writing about? I can't think of anyone else that fits that description. John wrote about the Word of God: that which was with God & God Himself (v1). This Word was involved in creation (vv3,10) - notice John begins to use a pronoun (He, Him) describing this Word. In this Word was both Life & Light (v4). When John the Baptist arrived on the scene, he bore witness of that Light (v7). That Word Who was with God & was God, was made a man & lived the life of a man (v14). That Word came to His Own people but they rejected Him (v11), but those who received Him were made sons of God (v12). These are not separate accounts; this whole passage is consistent in its subject matter & implications.

This passage of Scripture is talking about God's Word. It's not about Apostle John or John the Baptist, or anyone else. The only Person Who could fit the bill is God's Word, Jesus Christ: He is the only One Who could be the giver of Life & Light & be the Creator of all things (also Colossians 1:15-17). He is the Only One Who could ask His Father ( John 17:5: "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH thee before the world was."). He is the only One Who could state ( John 6:38: "For I CAME DOWN from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."). And He is the only One Who could tell the Jews ( John 8:58: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.").

I always wonder how folk consider these verses that I've shared here. I'm sure Jesus is not lying to us by saying those things. Do people read those verses as I do or in some other way that I'm missing? Or, should we determine that since the incarnation is 'impossible', therefore all these Scriptures are meaningless? Even if Christ's Deity is hard to understand, we can't simply reject it.

Hello Joseph. That is a great verse couplet ( Mark 12:29,30), which needed no explanation from Jesus, as every Jew had that those words indelibly etched in their minds. This is what they refer to as the "Shema", which means 'Hear' in Hebrew. What Jesus did add, was verse 31, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." And to this declaration, the Scribe/Lawyer clearly affirmed Jesus' Words, to which Jesus perceived that the man was "not far from the kingdom of God". Muslims also have a common declaration which is always repeated, known as the Shahada, but it doesn't bear repeating here because of its content.

However, I don't believe that Jesus was inferring the Trinity, or His Deity, by quoting the Shema. Jesus somewhat veiled this aspect of His Divinity, though never denying any outburst from the religious leaders for His 'blasphemous claims' (e.g. Matthew 26:59-65; John 10:30-38). I think that when certain spiritual eyes were opened, they were able to know from the Words of Jesus & the demonstration of His Life & Works, that this was no ordinary Man, however blessed He might be from God. This was One they had never encountered before: might they be standing before, seeing & listening to God Himself, now come to them in human form to bring light & hope to their darkened souls? When we read the Gospels, we see clearly this conflict amongst many who came before Him; many hated Him & wanted to dispose of Him - others realized the Messiah of God had come for their sakes & they'd better pay attention to Him.

And even though the word 'trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures, all the references to that point to Jesus' presence with God & part of the Godhead ( John 3:13; John 6:38; Colossians 2:9; John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Colossians 1:15-17; & many more), give us undeniable proof of Him & His Words. Only the Christ from God could fully pay the price for our sins, securing our redemption.

No one can come to the Father unless He draws Him first ( John 6:44). His sheep hear His voice ( John 10:27). I recommend that you read this book in particular to understand election. The god of this world has blinded the minds of men who don't believe ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Parables were hidden from the Pharisees; and only the Holy Spirit could reveal that Jesus was the Son of God ( Matthew 16:17). Once again the Father was the one who did the revealing.

The only unforgiveable sin was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 12:31-32). This related to people seeing Christ's miracles and attributing them to Beezlebub (or Satan). Most people would when they saw His miracles think that he was a prophet; or good man as Peter indicated the general response was earlier when Christ asked who men thought He was. This is much like looking at the Sermon on the Mount and all those who Christ declared blessed and thinking somehow a person could be virtuous by doing a bunch of good works alone. Many are called; few are chosen ( Matthew 22:14). Satan of course will do many signs and wonders in Revelation 13 through the false prophet to draw men to worship the Antichrist. There are many evil spirits that are deceiving men today. When Christ did miracles; he would ask people at times to go back to the leaders to confirm the healing was genuine and be officially declared "clean".

Jesus asked the Pharisees which was harder; forgiving sins or healing ( Matthew 9:5). Jesus indeed did healings without preaching salvation many times; but he would say go and sin no more lest something worse happens to you to a man paralyzed most of his life ( John 5:14). This can be seen also with the woman about to be stoned ( John 8:11). In this; we can see that the Presence of the Holy Spirit Christ draws all men (that He has called and chosen) to Himself.

This is also true in Acts; the Apostles didn't beg to get more converts; people said what must I do to be saved ( Acts 16:30).

The sons of Korah had a dark history when the earth swallowed those directly involved in the rebellion in Numbers 16 where 250 were swallowed up by the earth and apparently went to hades immediately and while still alive. There could certainly be a recognition of the fate by the author who apparently at the very least was sympathetic to what happened. In regard to the text; where he says he is in the lower parts of the earth (v.6); and the hopelessness personally expressed here as in no other section of scripture it is certainly conceivable that he had a real revelation of hell. Such torments as listed in the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man

(starting in Luke 16:20) illustrate an account of an individual still in hell today from real life who is the nameless rich man. Such is the situation of the lost after death and this chapter should be enough to scare someone straight to repentance realizing there is no hope apart from Christ. Sadly; though when the rich man sought for someone to be raised from the dead he was told by Abraham that they would not listen; and the implication is that even those who see many not believe-as is evidenced by the rebellious Jews in the Book of Acts.

For the heart to respond it must be changed from the stony heart to one of flesh ( Ezekiel 11:19). It must be something which God grants to His elect; no man comes to Christ unless the Father draws Him first ( John 6:44). May He grant that to some today.

I have taken that to be wisdom especially when we think to highly of someone & they fall into sin. Putting too much trust in man, woman, their position or title, for example. This was advice maybe through experience.

Proverbs 6:30, Proverbs 6:23-26,

Hopefully these scriptures are also helpful in reference

Genesis 25:34, Hebrews 12:16, 1Samuel 25:10-38,

It is also commanded

Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 24:23, James 1:1-10, Colossians 3:25, Ephesians 6:9, Job 32:21, 2 Chronicles 19:7, Deuteronomy 16:19,

Example Luke 20:21, Matthew 22:16, even when trying to trap Jesus they testified that HE wasn't a "respecter of persons"

Jesus was tested by this Luke 4:2-4,

Is it also coincidence that it was a piece of bread that was given before betrayal by Jesus? John 13:18,21-27, John 6:33,

John 6:1-29 ,

John 6:23-24, they took ships

I like to read each account of a given biblical account especially when deeply searching truth or studying details. The search box on this site is helpful for that.

Hopefully this is helpful

I'd like to add to what Chris stated. I am not Catholic nor Roman Catholic, however I took communion with my aunt & former boss (a high ranking political figure). After several times in attending & participating in two different states, whenever I had to accompany my former boss on Sundays, or visiting my Aunt Holidays or Sundays, maybe multiple years. All of a sudden, I was no longer allowed to participate, in either state because I "wasn't Catholic" that seems very wrong on multiple levels. Here's additional scripture:

1st: we're told to exam ourselves, before Communion, not other's to allow or disallow. 1 Corinthians 11:28-31, Roman 14:1-4,

2nd: we are told to confess our sins to one another: James 5:16-17,

3rd: John 6:37,

4th: Matthew 23:9-10,

5th: 1 Timothy 4:1-6, "doctrines of devils" forbidding marriage?

However the Catholic church is well-known for hospitals, ministry to needy 1 John 1:25-27, Matthew 25:31-46,

& we're called to love one another: John 13:35,

Hopefully these are also helpful.

Alex. Your two comments are long & would require a lot of unnecessary space to deal with each point. But to take up one of those points: "4 Times in johns Gospel he Jesus said he wd raise them up the last day . How cd he do that unless it was by his spirit that is poured out on everybody THE LAST DAY WHICH IS THE DAY WE ARE IN NOW."

This belief of yours, I would say, is typical of how you interpret Scripture. In John's Gospel, this phrase appears in John 6:39,40,44,54 (I believe these are the verses you refer to). You've obviously read them but since you want to believe that all will be raised to live forever with the Lord (in that coming day), that these verses apply to everyone. But did you not read also: "all which he hath GIVEN ME I should lose nothing"; "that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH ON HIM"; "the Father which hath sent me DRAW HIM"; "WHOSO EATETH MY FLESH, AND DRINKETH MY BLOOD". What is the thought in those portions? Are you unable to see the common thread running through the verses, that Jesus was speaking about those who are found IN CHRIST (those GIVEN, those who BELIEVE, those being DRAWN by God, those who partake in the merits of Christ's Sacrifice). None of these Truths can ever be applied to the sinful, unbelieving, ungodly of this world nor of the world to come.

As far as I can recall, you never speak of having faith when coming to Christ & to be justified by God ( Ephesians 2:8: God's grace plus our faith = salvation). I wonder why that is. Maybe, it would negate your belief that all people will eventually be saved, because faith in Christ's redemptive work can only apply now, or else it's no longer 'faith'. Also, you don't write about Satan & his evil spirits also getting redeemed & enjoying holiness of life - after all you will quote verses such as Revelation 5:13 which should support your belief. Alex, please read & understand the Scriptures as given ("rightly dividing the Word"), & not try to re-write the Holy Bible.

John 11:55, Mark 14:12, John 6:4, Luke 22:1,

John 12:1,12,13, John 13:1-2,

Matthew 27:15,

1st Sabbath being the Passover feast.

Exodus 12,

2nd Sabbath Matthew 28:1,

Psalms 81:3, also significant Mark 15:33, total solar Eclipse, New moon?

We should be careful not to follow after traditions set up by men, but Study to understand. Colossians 2:8, Matthew 15:3, Mark 7:9

Why would Jesus rebuke them over tradition? Because even today it causes doubt, & confusion amongst the church.

Hopefully these scriptures are helpful. GOD's WORD is truth.

Tradition is not 100% reliable.

Oh dear Georganna.

I am so sorry that you are having such troubles that are causing you to think that believing and praying to God is futile for you. I will be praying for you.

I would like to share one Scripture that the Holy Spirit "shouted" into my heart when I was burdened down with many griefs and thought about "throwing in the towel."

John 6:66-68

From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"

But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go" You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

So, when I was at my low point and exhausted from my struggles, the Spirit spoke to me what Peter said to Jesus.

I hope that the you will come to what I realized in that moment, that the only sure hope anyone has in this life is Jesus. No matter what happens to me, Jesus is my secure prize. This life isn't all there is, eternity awaits me and all will be made right and I will understand the purpose for all my troubles. For now, I will just walk each day in Jesus shadow, holding on to His garment with faith that nothing is impossible for Him to do for me and those I love.

I hope this encourages you.

Dear Lord Jesus,

Send you comfort and peace to Georganna as she cries out to you for help. You say you draw near to the brokenhearted. Let her know you are so very near to her. Lord, I pray that YOU will solve her problems since they are too big for her to do what needs to be done. Fill her with Your hope and assurance of Your love and moment by moment care. Send help right away, Lord and defeat that which is overwhelming her today. I ask this in faith in You, Jesus, in Your precious, holy name. Amen

Possibly because it would be a moment of extreme weakness. Matthew 4:2, Luke 4:2, Hebrews 4:15,

John 10:10,

This was also a moment of Prophetic fulfillment. Luke 4:4, Deuteronomy 8:3, John 6:58,

Deuteronomy 6:16, Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12, Luke 4:10-11, Psalms 91:12, Matthew 4:6,

Exodus 34:28,

Matthew 4:1-11, Luke 4:1-21, 22-44,

Hopefully that helps

Cowboy:

If you are in the First RESURRECTION you will NEVER see death, death has been destroyed.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIE anymore........being the children of resurrection.

John 6:50 .... that a man may eat thereof, and NOT DIE.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE ....

Matthew 16:28 There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death .....

John 8:51 .....if a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION....and shall reign with Christ a thousand years.

Hey GIGI,

I am with you, we may not ever know when Jesus was born, Earl is close on the month, but the only thing Jesus said to do in remembrance of Him was at the last super, Luke 22:19. Scripture does let us know when Jesus came, the year He was baptized. Luke 3:1-6 when John the Baptist came. Tiberius Caesar was emperor from 14-37 A.D. Pontius Pilate ruled from 26-36 A.D. so the fifteenth year of Tiberius would have been 29 A.D. start of John the Baptist ministry.

This may have been in the late summer or early fall, Jesus came up from Galilee to Jordan to be baptized and the Spirit of God descending upon him, Matt. 3:13-17 Mark 1:911 Luke 3:21-22. Then Jesus went into the wilderness for forty days, tempted by Satan, then collecting the twelve.

In John 2, Jesus was in Cana of Galilee at the wedding and after in John 2:13, the Passover was at hand. This would place it just before spring of 30 A.D. There are four Passovers recorded in John, John 2:13 John 5:1 John 6:4 John 19:14, Jesus was crucified on the fourth. John 6:4 is in question if it was a Passover, or another required feast. May this help.

God bless,

RLW

Patricia,

All glory to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Thank you for your explanation as it helped me to finally understand the verse(s). Thank you very much for taking the time to explain...to me it's a super-important learning curve. Great explanation. Thanks again.

Brother Spencer, thank you. may the Lord continue to bless you also!

Thanks Earl. The Lord is good!

Thanks David. Yes, it is sort of amusing. And these were religious leaders!

Amen and Amen, Brother Jesse!

Great reply Brother Jesse.

God bless you and all you do.

Hi Edna This is an indication of how far out Israel or Judean beliefs got away from the scripture and how blinded the adversary had them, many times we read in the gospels it is written by the prophets or Jesus Christ himself. Now the scribes and pharisees and sadducees new the scripture but used to there advantage corrupt.

Hi Jesse It always amuses me that they still didn't get it, but then I ask would I have. By the way good stuff!