There's those in the OT that passed on that is not considered part of the new covenant and is not part of Christ Church.
They were saved by faith but under the old covenant and rituals that pointed to their Messiah's finish work on the cross freeing them from the bondage that held them captive.
The difference between Israel and the rest of the world was that they were heirs of the land, Davidic and Kingdom promises to Abraham.
(Not to be mistaken for the recipient of the promises shown mentioned in Galatians 3:29 referring to Christ.)
However we all should know there's no entering into the presence of God without the door. John 10:9. That goes for all ages.
These specific promises is after the Gathering of the Gentiles into the body of Christ. "The Church" as shown in Acts 15:14-16
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
"AFTER THIS" I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
The old testament prophets prophesied about the gather of Israel, (Post Church) and the Davidic Kingdom.
References-
Romans 11:25-26.
Romans 9:25-26 echoing Hosea 2:23.
Isaiah 40:9
Joel 2:3-32.
Isaiah 11:11-12.
The Lord calls Zion(Israel) his people several times in these verses.
..2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity HIS PEOPLE.
In Isaiah 11:11 the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.
This is not the Church but a people and elect of God for the purpose of God!
1 "Can you tell me how you interpret the events after the tribulation period, on into the Millennium, when Satan is chained and when he is loosed?"
I will do my best to show my understanding of your questions. My study is simple, and I rely on the Bible for interpretation. I use Word Search, a concordance, and my Bible provides other verses that cross-reference a word or phrase throughout Scripture.
The book of Revelation is not in chronological order. We see in Revelation 1:7, that when He comes in the clouds, every eye will see Him. Revelation 6:12-17 shows a vision given to John after the Sixth Seal, revealing the signs of Jesus' coming. Cross-references include Joel 2:10-11, 30-31, Matthew 24, and others.
In Revelation 11:15-19, the seventh trumpet, or the last trumpet, signals the coming of Jesus, ending the tribulation and beginning God's wrath. Revelation 14 combines visions that are not in order; we see Jesus standing on Mount Zion with the 144000, which would occur after Revelation 19:11-16. We know this because, when He returns, His feet will land on the Mount of Olives, as described in Zechariah 14:4.
Revelation 14:6-7 describes the angel preaching the everlasting gospel, which must occur near the end of the tribulation. The announcement of Babylon's fall is seen in chapters 17 and 18. Revelation 14:9-11 states the fate of those who worship the beast, take its mark, and follow the beast and the false prophet. This is carried out in Revelation 19:20-21.
Revelation 14:12-13 declares, "Blessed are those who die in the Lord from henceforth," even as the tribulation continues. My understanding of Revelation 14:14-16, which covers the harvest and the first resurrection, is supported by passages like Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6, and Matthew 24:29-31. Revelation 14:17-20 describes the battle of Armageddon, with related references in Revelation 19:17-21, Ezekiel 39:17-21, and Luke 17:37.
While we can't hold all spiritual truths to the exclusion of the Tribulation there are some things; no doubt functionally that He will work with once the church is removed and the restrainer mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Joel 2:32 states along with verses in Romans that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved; but the focus in Joel is no doubt the Tribulation with God's judgments on the earth; albeit the earlier fulfillment at Pentecost.
There are other verses which warn in the end that although men cry out to the Lord He will not hear them and they are destroyed.
Whatever happens at Armageddon; no doubt the fate of those are sealed who have taken the mark and fight against Christ at His return.
In terms of Predestination I quote in Revelation 13:8
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This fits into other scripture such as Daniel 12:10 that only the wise will understand what is going on at that time.
Thus; the finality of the wheat separated from the chaff occurs. I would say that begins with the false one world religious "Babylon" which has an economic and religious headquarters and power structure. The beast himself destroys this at the midpoint of the Tribulation in accordance with the wishes of the 10 rulers who rule with him for one hour so as to receive worship only for himself. ( Rev. 17:16).
We all need to remember that this horrible time; the worst the world has ever or will ever again endure is all in God's plan to finish the work of purifying His people including the nation of Israel ( Zechariah 13:8 and many other verses). His saints; therefore will be the living testimony along with Christ's physical return of His faithfulness and will usher in the promised Millennial reign. Sadly that will end with one more rebellion; sinful man can never learn on their own.
[25] For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul.
My Respond: Thanking God for latter rain giving me blessings v24 to have a season and future seasons.
Joel 2:23-24 KJV
[23] Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. [24] And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. ( Jeremiah 6:14).
When we observe scripture we see the judgment of individuals as well as whole nations. Look at Joel 2:32 for instance
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.
Now look at this verse in Micah 3:4
Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.
Here we have examples of when God hears the call and when He doesn't. This of course can be compared with the repentance of Judas Iscariot who was sorry for the consequences of his actions; rather than recognizing Jesus as Messiah and bowing down in worship. Let this be a warning to us all.
We also see differing spiritual states in different passages; take for instance John 3:16-18
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
It isn't enough to call out on the Lord but to do what He says. Luke 6:46 states: And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? We can call on His Name ( Romans 10:13) as an individual; or a nation facing judgment ( Joel 2:32) and this shows different contexts to this N.T. passage from the O.T. reference.
Many are called; few are chosen ( Matt. 22:14). God does the choosing; ultimately as He knows all men's hearts.
There is no question that in the final fulfillment of Joel 2:28 testifies: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: This all is part of the signs and wonders seen in the sun; moon and stars and other events; with the first part of this prophecy happening with Pentecost in Acts 2:16.
The greatest manifestation of these miraculous powers will be with the two Prophets as seen in Revelation 11. This is a reflection of the 2 candlesticks mentioned in Zechariah 4:11-14. There are also the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned in Revelation 7 and appearing in later chapters. God sets His seal of protection over them for events effecting the earth that seem to appear in the Trumpet Judgments; so they come sometime between the onset of the period and the end of the seal judgments.
The deception of false prophets is a main focus here but the other deception of not believing God's prophets is something dangerous and needs to be considered. This seems to be reflected in the punishment of the sheep and goat judgment in Matthew 25. Those who are in prison and not visited; for instance are indicative of those who are sent to hell. We are reminded of the subject discussed at Sunday School today about the unforgiveable sin in Luke 12:10. Such rebellion is clearly indicated by those who; for instance celebrate with a world wide party once the two prophets are killed; in Revelation 11:7-12.
Shortly afterward; no doubt the Antichrist is hailed as the victor over his own death as well as overcoming these two men who had caused so much suffering for those on the earth. You would think their resurrection would deter them from continuing on this path but they probably in my opinion Antichrist will say he drove them out of the earth where the rest of us are reprogrammed.
Just to clarify, Evangelist1. The reference to Joel 2:28 & what the Apostle Peter referenced to in his preaching in Acts 2:18, was Israel-specific. I'm not at all suggesting that the spirit of Prophecy, & other gifts, have not been designated to Christ's Church as well, but those references were (& are) for Israel only (as in "your sons" & "your daughters"). When you read Joel 2:28-32, the message is clearly directed to Israel's future repentance & deliverance before that great & awful Day of the Lord arrives. That is still in the future for them & the world.
So, how does that translate to Pentecost Day & the Church in the NT & present? It is certain that the Holy Spirit has given 'gifts' to the Lord's people, and prophetical utterances are one of them (as we see in Acts 11:28; Acts 13:1; Acts 21:9,10,11; and by John the Revelator). In whatever way & location, today in the Church, there has been given an order to be followed. And we see this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Timothy 2:11-13. As much as the world might want & demand total equality amongst the sexes, which is not wrong at all for we are all created equal; yet in His Church, Christ has ordained a specific order in leadership & Church operation. And we can't call upon OT examples of women leaders or judges as justification for sisters leading & teaching within the Church; simply because the nation of unsaved Israel does not equate to the saved Body of Christ. We must always be mindful of not letting the teachings of the world & personal inclinations impose on what Christ requires of His people. GBU.
1st Timothy 3rd chapter talks about the qualifications of a Bishop and a Deacon it does not say a woman not supposed to be over a man. I knew you was going there with no other proof. You can bring those scriptures up, but you can overlook Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens, I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. And it come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. You do know that brethren mean siters as well. The Old Testament conceals, and the New Testament reveals women are used to lead and spread the gospel so come again cause if that's all you got.
You stated that Paul teaches that women are not to be overseers (pastors) or teachers over men. These are official appointments in church. I never seen that in the bible. He stated that the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law states. That does not mean that a woman is not to preach or teach or be over a man. During this time that Paul is teaching the church of Corinth where Paul is writing a letter to the Church about unruly women telling them to be quiet and ask their husband after church. Telling someone to be quiet don't mean they can't preach, oversee, or teach over a man. You have Joel 2:28 says and it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters shall prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams your young men see visions. as well as Acts chapter 2: 17 that states and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God. I will pour out upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young man shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. This is what the Prophet Joel and the Dr Luke spoke of. Paul never said those words, but he also taught even when behind bars. We women are called to preach call to preach we have a personal relationship with God and our walk is in important as well especially us single women if we don't have a husband who are we going to talk to and not worry about a man who may make a pass at us we walk in our callings and wil continute to lead as we hear God still small voice.
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them;then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down,and to be beaten before his face,according to his fault, by a certain number. Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed:lest,if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
The Bible is God's Law Book. God will not and cannot violate His Law.
Eternal conscious existence and suffering under the wrath of God in a place called hell, that never ends for those whose sins have not been paid for is not taught in the Bible.
What the Bible does teach is that the wages of sin is death, both in body and soul. Unsaved man together with this sin cursed earth will be eternally destroyed,that is annihilated. This is what be Law of God requires,and what the Lord Jesus Christ,eternal God Himself,experienced and then rose to life again as the substitute for all of those whom God chose to save. And for whom God has obligated Himself to apply that salvation to their life by giving them a new resurrected soul at some point in their life. And then a new resurrected body which will occur at the Last Day.
It is still the day of salvation. And anyone concerned about their relationship with God may still cry out to God for mercy in the hope that God might save them.
Salvation is 100% the work of God.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefor,also now, saith the LORD,turn ye even to me with all your heart,and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent,and leave a blessing behind him;even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
God's wrath is not capricious, driven by changing emotions and passions, as man is. Rather, it is a timeless stern, terrifying stance of His nature towards evil in all of its forms. His wrath is an inescapable reality toward a sin-cursed creation.
Every cemetery is a testament to God's sentence on sin in mankind. His anger and intolerance of sin is a real and it is deadly always. He is zealous for His holiness and therefore will not withstand sin in His presence. Even if He delays His justice, He will never cease to preserve the holiness and purity of His Presence.
God is not hasty in exercising His wrath. He is slow to anger ( Exodus 34:6-7). In His wisdom He determines how and when He will enact justice against sin. This slowness to exercise His anger and wrath should be a motivation towards repentance ( Joel 2:15) and never a license to engage in carefree sin and rebellion against Him. Exodus 34:7 says that He will not clear the guilty. (also see Numbers 14:18)
In the NT from the preaching of God's wrath by John the Baptist to the Wrath of the Lamb in Revelation the truth of God's just wrath pervades the books of the NT and speaks on this attribute in harmony with what the OT teaches about God's wrath. From Jesus and the apostles, salvation is presented as a rescue from God's wrath ( Mt. 3:7; Lk. 3:7; Mt. 5:22; 18:5; Mk. 9:48; Jn. 3:36; Acts 10:42). Peter says that they were commanded by Jesus to preach of God's judgment. ( Acts 2:14-36; 10:42)
Romans 4:15 explains how law-breaking invites God's wrath. Verse 9:23 describes how freely chosen sin fits sinners to be vessels of God's wrath, deserving of all He has willed this wrath to include: eternal punishment, torment, separation from God's Presence, and anguish. Revelation 6:16; 14:10 assign the execution of God's wrath, justice, and judgment to Jesus.
Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Joel 2:11-14
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
The True Gospel is transparent to nationality or economic status or political standing. It has nothing to do with economic prosperity or with socio-political issues. When the churches become involved in political activism or social or economic issues, they forget that the task of the believers is to be an ambassador of the kingdom of God. When Jesus was placed on trial for his life at the behest of the chief priests, Jesus said to Pontius Pilate:
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Concerning political rulers, the Bible commands in Romans 13:1-5 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
The true gospel has been emasculated in our day as the churches have become more involved with the social and physical and political issues of the day, which in themselves have nothing to do with the true gospel.
Even more significant, virtually every church today proclaims a man-made do-it-yourself gospel of grace plus works where they will tell you how to become saved.
The TRUE GOSPEL is beautifully expressed in Eze 36 & Jer 29. God does 100% of the work of Salvation. Read Jonah 3 and Joel 2:12-14.
The short answer to your question is God did not pay for the sins of everyone.
He paid only for the sins of those whom He chose to save. God calls these the Elect of God.
They are not elect because of any inherent goodness or worthiness within them as we read in Romans 3:10-18 and similar passages. They are not elect because they are more likely to respond to the Gospel than any one else. All mankind is DEAD in trespasses and sins. Eph 2:1.
God works in the Heart of those whom He is saving to CAUSE them to respond. And He gives them a New Heart, a New Resurrected Soul. This is becoming Born Again. It is a true MIRACLE of God. It is all the MERCY of God as He does 100% of the work to save His Elect and they enter into His Rest.
Romans 9:15,16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
So what must we do to be saved? The answer is: We can do nothing! But we can cry to God for mercy as He commands us to do. Like Publican: " Lord have mercy upon me a sinner", in the very Real Hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14
14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
I do appreciate your comments David0921 and I guess this would now take us back to our old discussion on biblical hermeneutics. Clearly, yours & mine are very different and even at this fundamental, yet essential matter of how we should read, understand & dissect the Bible so that it is meaningful & confirmed in our hearts, will be the one that can never bring us to agreement.
In my view, and taking your advice on board, I believe that I do allow "the Bible to be its own interpreter" as I compare Scripture with Scripture, the Covenants, the Work of the Cross, etc. But it seems that we are, maybe not even understanding, what some of the verses are actually stating, which then leads us on to our own understanding & belief. Even the Romans 9:13-16 example you gave, to prove your point, I believe by my little exegesis to you, doesn't actually prove anything. Or the Joel 2:12-14 passage: maybe some exegesis from you on these passages might reveal how you are understanding it in light of our discussion, simply because I can't see the connection.
And not only with this important subject of Salvation (i.e. whether we are regenerated before being saved or after), we will very likely disagree on other matters (e.g. are the prophecies concerning Israel's future - into the Great Tribulation, of wars, of Christ's intervention, of their part in His Millennial rule, etc., still to be taken literally or simply transposed to the Church? If they are to be transposed, then what do we do with the other prophecies? Should we reinterpret them as well to suit our preferences? Then, how literally are we supposed to read the Bible? All these strange questions surface, hence my biblical understanding is to accept what is given, yet understanding what the book/chapter/verses are actually referring to and their connection to other verses relevant to it). I only share this last paragraph as a further example - but not for discussion on this particular thread. Every blessing.
You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.
Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.
Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).
Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.
Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.
Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
I haven't said or done anything or stopped anyone from entering in God's church or believing in Jesus to be saved!
You are absolutely right. Also it is prefferable to have those churches than nothing. In Europe in countries where those churches play a significant role in the society, usually Southen/Eastern Europe, people are closer to God and His commandments than the North where people are almost completely atheists and this is obvious from the no. of divorces, rate of crime, etc. But I wish they could just open their eyes and see and follow the truth. How a great salvation it could be done. In my country more than 95% of people have been baptized as Orthodox christians when they were infants. They often attend the church liturgies, take part in celebtations, festivals, fastings, everything...but their everyday life doesn't show Christ. If that church could see the truth and preach it, my God what a great salvation would result, I believe thousand and millions of people would have been saved. Another thing is that we must honor those churches, apart from condemning them all the time. This may sound strange but let us not forget that Christianity was spread throughout the world mainly by those 2 churches, the Catholics in the West and the Orthodoxes in the East. If those didn't exist, probably we wouldn't have learned anything about Christ. As we owe honor to Israel because they kept the faith to the real God for so many millenia so that the church found it at the end, the same way we owe honor to those churches because they kept the faith for so many centuaries untill we found it. This is justice. But we also have to talk to them about their errors. We really can not do much, but God is powerful to change that all completely. I believe that as we are approaching the end and the sin in the world is becoming biger and biger, the stonger our God's power will be revealed to the world. We can talk to everybody about our faith but if God doesn't show His strength not much will be done. So our prayes here is to see God powerful again, as the ancient times. ( Joel 2:23)
30And the times of this ignorance GOD winked at;but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31Because He hath appointed a Day,in the which He will Judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto ALL men,in that He hath raised him from the dead.
Mat.28:18-And JESUS came and spake unto them,saying,All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Luke 10:19-20
19Behold,I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,and over ALL the power of the enemy:and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not,that the spirits are subject unto you;but rather rejoice,because your names are written in heaven.
Joel 2:1-11
1Blow the trumpet in Zion,sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:the Lord's Day comes...
2A Day of darkness and of gloominess,a Day of clouds and of thick darkness...a great people and a strong there has not been ever the like,neither shall be any more after it...
3A fire devoures before them;and behind them a flame burns:the land is as the garden of Eden before them,and behind them a desolate wilderness...
5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoures the stubble,as a strong people set in battle array.
6Before their face the people shall be much pained...
7They shall run like mighty men;they shall climb the wall like men of war;and they shall march every one on his ways,and they shall not break their ranks:
8...and when they fall upon the sword,they shall not be wounded.
9They shall run to and fro in the city;they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses;they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10The earth shall quake before them...
11And the Lord shall utter His voice before His army:His camp is very great:He is strong that executes His Word:the Day of the Lord is great,very terrible;and who can abide it?
The earth is full of violent men and wars of all kind,wars of demons,in all the continents,they are something like fallen angels. But what does the Word of God say?What did my Lord JESUS say? Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth- Matthew 5:5.But how?
GOD the Father-the Word,the Word is GOD- said by the prophet Hoseas(8th-century BCE-Hosea or Oshea means salvation,he is called also Joshua in the holy Scriptures): GOD said by Hosea: But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,and will save them by the Lord their GOD,and will not save them by bow,nor by sword,nor by battle,by horses,nor by horsemen- Hosea 1:7.
GOD is the Truth. Jeremiah 10:10: But the Lord is the true GOD,He is the living GOD,and an everlasting King:at His WRATH the earth shall tremble,and the nations shall not be able to abide His INDIGNATGION.-As it is written in Romans 2:5-16-Check it.
The Day of the Lord
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15.The Word is GOD,the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed.
So,there shall be a spiritual BATTLE against this devilish/satanic world ruled by the Devil which deceives the whole world- Revelation 12:9. And how do the nations will react?Well, we know that the nations will rage,yeah,will rage- Revelation 11:18-,the kings of the earth set themselves,and the rulers take counsel together,against the Lord,and against His anointed,saying,"Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us",but the LORD will laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision- Psalm 2.
The LORD said: Joel 2:1-3
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:for the Day of the Lord cometh,for it is nigh at hand;(That is this 7th and last Day,the LORD's Day,or seventh and last millennium).
There shall be War against three unclean Spirits like frogs-Rev.16:13-15
Revelation 6:12 And when the SIXTH seal was opened, and lo, there was a great earthquake .... Matthew 27:54.... and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair ...... Matthew 27:45 ....... and the moon became as blood ...... John 19:34 .....
All this was prophesied:
Joel 2:31 The sun shall turn into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable Day of the Lord come.
Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.
There are those who look at the latter rain described in Joel 2:23-27 we see what is similar text (along with the early rain). The final revival of the world likely will fulfill other promises in Joel such as in Joel 2:28 also mentioned at least partially fulfilled in Acts 2:17. We also can't ignore how God has blessed Israel even today with more rainfall then surrounding nations; and no doubt the earth in the Millennium will be fruitful more than ever for the final fulfillment with literal rainy seasons of predictable nature (except for those who don't come to worship God as we see later on in Zechariah).
Verse 2 describes that there were those as if there was no shepherd; apparently struggling into part of verse 3. This reminds us of Christ's statement in Matthew 9:36-38.
Verses 3 and 5 show indications of later verses in Zechariah of Judah fighting against the enemy armies in campaigns related to Armageddon; specifically after the taking of half of the city of Jerusalem. Basically the rest of this chapter shows the unity of Judah and Ephriam and gives glory to Christ as the victor over the enemies. Verses 9 and 10 show an ingathering from Egypt and other places.
The pride of Assyria in verse 11 could be partially fulfilled in the past but Antichrist himself is known as the "Assyrian" in Ezekiel 31:3. Egypt is mentioned too; although it's national prominence will never be what it was ( Ezekiel 29:15) but it will cry out in the last days ( Isaiah 19:20) and of course it is mentioned in Zechariah 14:17 they will still exist and need to worship God every year.
Zechariah 5 (Apparently I listed chapter 4 errantly earlier as chapter 3; sorry)
1Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.
2And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.
3Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.
4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
These verses are admittedly difficult to analize. Some have suggested this indicates the dimensions of a missile or some small scale nuclear warhead. It does show that the whole earth is somehow affected in particular the thief and those who "swear falsely". I would tend to think that may mean convenants such as marriages or other vows that are disregarded with God in particular. One could look at other demons in Revelation and the Book of Joel 2:9 for a similar invasion but there are some differences.
The rest of the chapter seems to indicate demonic religion taking root in the land of "Shinar" which is in ancient Mesopotamia or the area of Babylon (verse 11). This could certainly refer to the one world religion being prepared in Abu Dhabi and perhaps envisioned elsewere to bring about unity with all the Monotheistic religions; and or a new religion amalgamating mysticism from Eastern and Western faiths alike. We certainly see this as dominating the world in the first half of the Tribulation ( Rev. 17:3) before Satan overthrows it ( Rev. 17:16) and the subsequent destruction of the religious AND economic Babylon in Revelation 18.
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
I have said several times if we do not see the tribulation period and the wrath of God as being completely different time periods, that it will cause confusion in our understanding of prophecy in the Lastdays. If we get one thing wrong such as this, it will cause other parts of our interpretation of prophecy to not be correct. When this happens we have to twist Scripture to fit our understanding, or as I have said before we would have to read things into Scripture that's not there.
In ( Joel 2:31) We are told "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, ((BEFORE)) the great and the terrible day of the LORD come". The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes.
When does this happen in the book of Revelation?
( Rev 6:12-13) v12 "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal. and, lo, there was a great earthquake; ((and the sun became black)) as sackcloth of hair, and ((the moon became as blood)). v13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind". The sun is dark, the moon to blood, and the stars fall from heaven, all this happens at the 6th seal. Then if we look at ( Rev 6:14-17) we see the wrath of the Lamb is come in verse 17.
Do we see this any other place in the Bible? Yes we do in ( Mt 24:29-31) "Immediately ((after the tribulation)) of those days shall ((the sun be darkened)), and ((the moon shall not give her light)), and ((the stars shall fall from heaven)) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken". v30 "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". v31 "And he shall send his angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect".
After the tribulation the sun is darkened, moon shall not give her light, the stars fall from heaven, THEN the Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect. THEN the wrath of God.
As you imply, we are not "salesmen for Christ". The task of the True Believer is to be a witness for the True Gospel in our life and in the Gospel that we proclaim.
But it must be the True Gospel as circumscribed by the Bible Alone and in its Entirety. It must be the Whole Counsel of God. And that starts with the fact that by nature we are sinners under the Judgment of God for every sin that we have or will ever commit as God describes us in
Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
And so we are under the Wrath of God for our sins, Eternal Death. But God has provided a way of escape by paying the full penalty required for the sins of those whom He has chosen to save. So we can come to God like the Publican in Luke 18:13, striped of any self righteousness, pleading for Mercy with a broken and contrite heart. There is then the very real hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God.
We, by nature, do not want this kind of a Gospel. God saves us by His Grace Alone. We are not in control.
Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Jonah 3:4-10 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Ezekiel 36:24-32 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Amen RicoUS what a wonderful prayer TY.....Jesus said if i be lifted up I will draw all men unto me...And Joel 2:28...says he was gonna pour out of his spirit on all flesh...And Isaiah 65:1 said I was found of them that sought me not and made manifest unto them that asked not after me....And while we were yet sinners Christ died for us....When he was on the Cross he had us all in mind....God so loved the world....Gbu RicoUS
There's those in the OT that passed on that is not considered part of the new covenant and is not part of Christ Church.
They were saved by faith but under the old covenant and rituals that pointed to their Messiah's finish work on the cross freeing them from the bondage that held them captive.
The difference between Israel and the rest of the world was that they were heirs of the land, Davidic and Kingdom promises to Abraham.
(Not to be mistaken for the recipient of the promises shown mentioned in Galatians 3:29 referring to Christ.)
However we all should know there's no entering into the presence of God without the door. John 10:9. That goes for all ages.
These specific promises is after the Gathering of the Gentiles into the body of Christ. "The Church" as shown in Acts 15:14-16
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
"AFTER THIS" I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
The old testament prophets prophesied about the gather of Israel, (Post Church) and the Davidic Kingdom.
References-
Romans 11:25-26.
Romans 9:25-26 echoing Hosea 2:23.
Isaiah 40:9
Joel 2:3-32.
Isaiah 11:11-12.
The Lord calls Zion(Israel) his people several times in these verses.
..2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity HIS PEOPLE.
In Isaiah 11:11 the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.
This is not the Church but a people and elect of God for the purpose of God!
Blessings Brother!
1 "Can you tell me how you interpret the events after the tribulation period, on into the Millennium, when Satan is chained and when he is loosed?"
I will do my best to show my understanding of your questions. My study is simple, and I rely on the Bible for interpretation. I use Word Search, a concordance, and my Bible provides other verses that cross-reference a word or phrase throughout Scripture.
The book of Revelation is not in chronological order. We see in Revelation 1:7, that when He comes in the clouds, every eye will see Him. Revelation 6:12-17 shows a vision given to John after the Sixth Seal, revealing the signs of Jesus' coming. Cross-references include Joel 2:10-11, 30-31, Matthew 24, and others.
In Revelation 11:15-19, the seventh trumpet, or the last trumpet, signals the coming of Jesus, ending the tribulation and beginning God's wrath. Revelation 14 combines visions that are not in order; we see Jesus standing on Mount Zion with the 144000, which would occur after Revelation 19:11-16. We know this because, when He returns, His feet will land on the Mount of Olives, as described in Zechariah 14:4.
Revelation 14:6-7 describes the angel preaching the everlasting gospel, which must occur near the end of the tribulation. The announcement of Babylon's fall is seen in chapters 17 and 18. Revelation 14:9-11 states the fate of those who worship the beast, take its mark, and follow the beast and the false prophet. This is carried out in Revelation 19:20-21.
Revelation 14:12-13 declares, "Blessed are those who die in the Lord from henceforth," even as the tribulation continues. My understanding of Revelation 14:14-16, which covers the harvest and the first resurrection, is supported by passages like Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6, and Matthew 24:29-31. Revelation 14:17-20 describes the battle of Armageddon, with related references in Revelation 19:17-21, Ezekiel 39:17-21, and Luke 17:37.
See Part 2
While we can't hold all spiritual truths to the exclusion of the Tribulation there are some things; no doubt functionally that He will work with once the church is removed and the restrainer mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Joel 2:32 states along with verses in Romans that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved; but the focus in Joel is no doubt the Tribulation with God's judgments on the earth; albeit the earlier fulfillment at Pentecost.
There are other verses which warn in the end that although men cry out to the Lord He will not hear them and they are destroyed.
Whatever happens at Armageddon; no doubt the fate of those are sealed who have taken the mark and fight against Christ at His return.
In terms of Predestination I quote in Revelation 13:8
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This fits into other scripture such as Daniel 12:10 that only the wise will understand what is going on at that time.
Thus; the finality of the wheat separated from the chaff occurs. I would say that begins with the false one world religious "Babylon" which has an economic and religious headquarters and power structure. The beast himself destroys this at the midpoint of the Tribulation in accordance with the wishes of the 10 rulers who rule with him for one hour so as to receive worship only for himself. ( Rev. 17:16).
We all need to remember that this horrible time; the worst the world has ever or will ever again endure is all in God's plan to finish the work of purifying His people including the nation of Israel ( Zechariah 13:8 and many other verses). His saints; therefore will be the living testimony along with Christ's physical return of His faithfulness and will usher in the promised Millennial reign. Sadly that will end with one more rebellion; sinful man can never learn on their own.
[25] For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul.
My Respond: Thanking God for latter rain giving me blessings v24 to have a season and future seasons.
Joel 2:23-24 KJV
[23] Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. [24] And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. ( Jeremiah 6:14).
When we observe scripture we see the judgment of individuals as well as whole nations. Look at Joel 2:32 for instance
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.
Now look at this verse in Micah 3:4
Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.
Here we have examples of when God hears the call and when He doesn't. This of course can be compared with the repentance of Judas Iscariot who was sorry for the consequences of his actions; rather than recognizing Jesus as Messiah and bowing down in worship. Let this be a warning to us all.
We also see differing spiritual states in different passages; take for instance John 3:16-18
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
It isn't enough to call out on the Lord but to do what He says. Luke 6:46 states: And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? We can call on His Name ( Romans 10:13) as an individual; or a nation facing judgment ( Joel 2:32) and this shows different contexts to this N.T. passage from the O.T. reference.
Many are called; few are chosen ( Matt. 22:14). God does the choosing; ultimately as He knows all men's hearts.
There is no question that in the final fulfillment of Joel 2:28 testifies: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: This all is part of the signs and wonders seen in the sun; moon and stars and other events; with the first part of this prophecy happening with Pentecost in Acts 2:16.
The greatest manifestation of these miraculous powers will be with the two Prophets as seen in Revelation 11. This is a reflection of the 2 candlesticks mentioned in Zechariah 4:11-14. There are also the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel mentioned in Revelation 7 and appearing in later chapters. God sets His seal of protection over them for events effecting the earth that seem to appear in the Trumpet Judgments; so they come sometime between the onset of the period and the end of the seal judgments.
The deception of false prophets is a main focus here but the other deception of not believing God's prophets is something dangerous and needs to be considered. This seems to be reflected in the punishment of the sheep and goat judgment in Matthew 25. Those who are in prison and not visited; for instance are indicative of those who are sent to hell. We are reminded of the subject discussed at Sunday School today about the unforgiveable sin in Luke 12:10. Such rebellion is clearly indicated by those who; for instance celebrate with a world wide party once the two prophets are killed; in Revelation 11:7-12.
Shortly afterward; no doubt the Antichrist is hailed as the victor over his own death as well as overcoming these two men who had caused so much suffering for those on the earth. You would think their resurrection would deter them from continuing on this path but they probably in my opinion Antichrist will say he drove them out of the earth where the rest of us are reprogrammed.
So, how does that translate to Pentecost Day & the Church in the NT & present? It is certain that the Holy Spirit has given 'gifts' to the Lord's people, and prophetical utterances are one of them (as we see in Acts 11:28; Acts 13:1; Acts 21:9,10,11; and by John the Revelator). In whatever way & location, today in the Church, there has been given an order to be followed. And we see this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Timothy 2:11-13. As much as the world might want & demand total equality amongst the sexes, which is not wrong at all for we are all created equal; yet in His Church, Christ has ordained a specific order in leadership & Church operation. And we can't call upon OT examples of women leaders or judges as justification for sisters leading & teaching within the Church; simply because the nation of unsaved Israel does not equate to the saved Body of Christ. We must always be mindful of not letting the teachings of the world & personal inclinations impose on what Christ requires of His people. GBU.
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them;then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down,and to be beaten before his face,according to his fault, by a certain number. Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed:lest,if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
The Bible is God's Law Book. God will not and cannot violate His Law.
Eternal conscious existence and suffering under the wrath of God in a place called hell, that never ends for those whose sins have not been paid for is not taught in the Bible.
What the Bible does teach is that the wages of sin is death, both in body and soul. Unsaved man together with this sin cursed earth will be eternally destroyed,that is annihilated. This is what be Law of God requires,and what the Lord Jesus Christ,eternal God Himself,experienced and then rose to life again as the substitute for all of those whom God chose to save. And for whom God has obligated Himself to apply that salvation to their life by giving them a new resurrected soul at some point in their life. And then a new resurrected body which will occur at the Last Day.
It is still the day of salvation. And anyone concerned about their relationship with God may still cry out to God for mercy in the hope that God might save them.
Salvation is 100% the work of God.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefor,also now, saith the LORD,turn ye even to me with all your heart,and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent,and leave a blessing behind him;even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Pt. 3
God's wrath is not capricious, driven by changing emotions and passions, as man is. Rather, it is a timeless stern, terrifying stance of His nature towards evil in all of its forms. His wrath is an inescapable reality toward a sin-cursed creation.
Every cemetery is a testament to God's sentence on sin in mankind. His anger and intolerance of sin is a real and it is deadly always. He is zealous for His holiness and therefore will not withstand sin in His presence. Even if He delays His justice, He will never cease to preserve the holiness and purity of His Presence.
God is not hasty in exercising His wrath. He is slow to anger ( Exodus 34:6-7). In His wisdom He determines how and when He will enact justice against sin. This slowness to exercise His anger and wrath should be a motivation towards repentance ( Joel 2:15) and never a license to engage in carefree sin and rebellion against Him. Exodus 34:7 says that He will not clear the guilty. (also see Numbers 14:18)
In the NT from the preaching of God's wrath by John the Baptist to the Wrath of the Lamb in Revelation the truth of God's just wrath pervades the books of the NT and speaks on this attribute in harmony with what the OT teaches about God's wrath. From Jesus and the apostles, salvation is presented as a rescue from God's wrath ( Mt. 3:7; Lk. 3:7; Mt. 5:22; 18:5; Mk. 9:48; Jn. 3:36; Acts 10:42). Peter says that they were commanded by Jesus to preach of God's judgment. ( Acts 2:14-36; 10:42)
Romans 4:15 explains how law-breaking invites God's wrath. Verse 9:23 describes how freely chosen sin fits sinners to be vessels of God's wrath, deserving of all He has willed this wrath to include: eternal punishment, torment, separation from God's Presence, and anguish. Revelation 6:16; 14:10 assign the execution of God's wrath, justice, and judgment to Jesus.
See Pt. 4
Isaiah 40:1-5
Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Joel 2:11-14
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it? Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
The True Gospel is transparent to nationality or economic status or political standing. It has nothing to do with economic prosperity or with socio-political issues. When the churches become involved in political activism or social or economic issues, they forget that the task of the believers is to be an ambassador of the kingdom of God. When Jesus was placed on trial for his life at the behest of the chief priests, Jesus said to Pontius Pilate:
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Concerning political rulers, the Bible commands in Romans 13:1-5 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
The true gospel has been emasculated in our day as the churches have become more involved with the social and physical and political issues of the day, which in themselves have nothing to do with the true gospel.
Even more significant, virtually every church today proclaims a man-made do-it-yourself gospel of grace plus works where they will tell you how to become saved.
The TRUE GOSPEL is beautifully expressed in Eze 36 & Jer 29. God does 100% of the work of Salvation. Read Jonah 3 and Joel 2:12-14.
The short answer to your question is God did not pay for the sins of everyone.
He paid only for the sins of those whom He chose to save. God calls these the Elect of God.
They are not elect because of any inherent goodness or worthiness within them as we read in Romans 3:10-18 and similar passages. They are not elect because they are more likely to respond to the Gospel than any one else. All mankind is DEAD in trespasses and sins. Eph 2:1.
God works in the Heart of those whom He is saving to CAUSE them to respond. And He gives them a New Heart, a New Resurrected Soul. This is becoming Born Again. It is a true MIRACLE of God. It is all the MERCY of God as He does 100% of the work to save His Elect and they enter into His Rest.
Romans 9:15,16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
So what must we do to be saved? The answer is: We can do nothing! But we can cry to God for mercy as He commands us to do. Like Publican: " Lord have mercy upon me a sinner", in the very Real Hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14
14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
In my view, and taking your advice on board, I believe that I do allow "the Bible to be its own interpreter" as I compare Scripture with Scripture, the Covenants, the Work of the Cross, etc. But it seems that we are, maybe not even understanding, what some of the verses are actually stating, which then leads us on to our own understanding & belief. Even the Romans 9:13-16 example you gave, to prove your point, I believe by my little exegesis to you, doesn't actually prove anything. Or the Joel 2:12-14 passage: maybe some exegesis from you on these passages might reveal how you are understanding it in light of our discussion, simply because I can't see the connection.
And not only with this important subject of Salvation (i.e. whether we are regenerated before being saved or after), we will very likely disagree on other matters (e.g. are the prophecies concerning Israel's future - into the Great Tribulation, of wars, of Christ's intervention, of their part in His Millennial rule, etc., still to be taken literally or simply transposed to the Church? If they are to be transposed, then what do we do with the other prophecies? Should we reinterpret them as well to suit our preferences? Then, how literally are we supposed to read the Bible? All these strange questions surface, hence my biblical understanding is to accept what is given, yet understanding what the book/chapter/verses are actually referring to and their connection to other verses relevant to it). I only share this last paragraph as a further example - but not for discussion on this particular thread. Every blessing.
You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.
Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.
Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).
Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.
Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.
Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.
To Page 2.
Romans 9:13-16
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
I haven't said or done anything or stopped anyone from entering in God's church or believing in Jesus to be saved!
You are absolutely right. Also it is prefferable to have those churches than nothing. In Europe in countries where those churches play a significant role in the society, usually Southen/Eastern Europe, people are closer to God and His commandments than the North where people are almost completely atheists and this is obvious from the no. of divorces, rate of crime, etc. But I wish they could just open their eyes and see and follow the truth. How a great salvation it could be done. In my country more than 95% of people have been baptized as Orthodox christians when they were infants. They often attend the church liturgies, take part in celebtations, festivals, fastings, everything...but their everyday life doesn't show Christ. If that church could see the truth and preach it, my God what a great salvation would result, I believe thousand and millions of people would have been saved. Another thing is that we must honor those churches, apart from condemning them all the time. This may sound strange but let us not forget that Christianity was spread throughout the world mainly by those 2 churches, the Catholics in the West and the Orthodoxes in the East. If those didn't exist, probably we wouldn't have learned anything about Christ. As we owe honor to Israel because they kept the faith to the real God for so many millenia so that the church found it at the end, the same way we owe honor to those churches because they kept the faith for so many centuaries untill we found it. This is justice. But we also have to talk to them about their errors. We really can not do much, but God is powerful to change that all completely. I believe that as we are approaching the end and the sin in the world is becoming biger and biger, the stonger our God's power will be revealed to the world. We can talk to everybody about our faith but if God doesn't show His strength not much will be done. So our prayes here is to see God powerful again, as the ancient times. ( Joel 2:23)
GBU
30And the times of this ignorance GOD winked at;but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31Because He hath appointed a Day,in the which He will Judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto ALL men,in that He hath raised him from the dead.
Mat.28:18-And JESUS came and spake unto them,saying,All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Luke 10:19-20
19Behold,I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,and over ALL the power of the enemy:and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not,that the spirits are subject unto you;but rather rejoice,because your names are written in heaven.
Joel 2:1-11
1Blow the trumpet in Zion,sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:the Lord's Day comes...
2A Day of darkness and of gloominess,a Day of clouds and of thick darkness...a great people and a strong there has not been ever the like,neither shall be any more after it...
3A fire devoures before them;and behind them a flame burns:the land is as the garden of Eden before them,and behind them a desolate wilderness...
5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoures the stubble,as a strong people set in battle array.
6Before their face the people shall be much pained...
7They shall run like mighty men;they shall climb the wall like men of war;and they shall march every one on his ways,and they shall not break their ranks:
8...and when they fall upon the sword,they shall not be wounded.
9They shall run to and fro in the city;they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses;they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10The earth shall quake before them...
11And the Lord shall utter His voice before His army:His camp is very great:He is strong that executes His Word:the Day of the Lord is great,very terrible;and who can abide it?
GOD the Father-the Word,the Word is GOD- said by the prophet Hoseas(8th-century BCE-Hosea or Oshea means salvation,he is called also Joshua in the holy Scriptures): GOD said by Hosea: But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,and will save them by the Lord their GOD,and will not save them by bow,nor by sword,nor by battle,by horses,nor by horsemen- Hosea 1:7.
GOD is the Truth. Jeremiah 10:10: But the Lord is the true GOD,He is the living GOD,and an everlasting King:at His WRATH the earth shall tremble,and the nations shall not be able to abide His INDIGNATGION.-As it is written in Romans 2:5-16-Check it.
The Day of the Lord
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15.The Word is GOD,the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed.
So,there shall be a spiritual BATTLE against this devilish/satanic world ruled by the Devil which deceives the whole world- Revelation 12:9. And how do the nations will react?Well, we know that the nations will rage,yeah,will rage- Revelation 11:18-,the kings of the earth set themselves,and the rulers take counsel together,against the Lord,and against His anointed,saying,"Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us",but the LORD will laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision- Psalm 2.
The LORD said: Joel 2:1-3
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:for the Day of the Lord cometh,for it is nigh at hand;(That is this 7th and last Day,the LORD's Day,or seventh and last millennium).
There shall be War against three unclean Spirits like frogs-Rev.16:13-15
Get ready
Revelation 6:12 And when the SIXTH seal was opened, and lo, there was a great earthquake .... Matthew 27:54.... and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair ...... Matthew 27:45 ....... and the moon became as blood ...... John 19:34 .....
All this was prophesied:
Joel 2:31 The sun shall turn into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable Day of the Lord come.
Quoted in Acts 2L20
God Bless YOU!
Verse 1 states:
Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.
There are those who look at the latter rain described in Joel 2:23-27 we see what is similar text (along with the early rain). The final revival of the world likely will fulfill other promises in Joel such as in Joel 2:28 also mentioned at least partially fulfilled in Acts 2:17. We also can't ignore how God has blessed Israel even today with more rainfall then surrounding nations; and no doubt the earth in the Millennium will be fruitful more than ever for the final fulfillment with literal rainy seasons of predictable nature (except for those who don't come to worship God as we see later on in Zechariah).
Verse 2 describes that there were those as if there was no shepherd; apparently struggling into part of verse 3. This reminds us of Christ's statement in Matthew 9:36-38.
Verses 3 and 5 show indications of later verses in Zechariah of Judah fighting against the enemy armies in campaigns related to Armageddon; specifically after the taking of half of the city of Jerusalem. Basically the rest of this chapter shows the unity of Judah and Ephriam and gives glory to Christ as the victor over the enemies. Verses 9 and 10 show an ingathering from Egypt and other places.
The pride of Assyria in verse 11 could be partially fulfilled in the past but Antichrist himself is known as the "Assyrian" in Ezekiel 31:3. Egypt is mentioned too; although it's national prominence will never be what it was ( Ezekiel 29:15) but it will cry out in the last days ( Isaiah 19:20) and of course it is mentioned in Zechariah 14:17 they will still exist and need to worship God every year.
1Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.
2And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.
3Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.
4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
These verses are admittedly difficult to analize. Some have suggested this indicates the dimensions of a missile or some small scale nuclear warhead. It does show that the whole earth is somehow affected in particular the thief and those who "swear falsely". I would tend to think that may mean convenants such as marriages or other vows that are disregarded with God in particular. One could look at other demons in Revelation and the Book of Joel 2:9 for a similar invasion but there are some differences.
The rest of the chapter seems to indicate demonic religion taking root in the land of "Shinar" which is in ancient Mesopotamia or the area of Babylon (verse 11). This could certainly refer to the one world religion being prepared in Abu Dhabi and perhaps envisioned elsewere to bring about unity with all the Monotheistic religions; and or a new religion amalgamating mysticism from Eastern and Western faiths alike. We certainly see this as dominating the world in the first half of the Tribulation ( Rev. 17:3) before Satan overthrows it ( Rev. 17:16) and the subsequent destruction of the religious AND economic Babylon in Revelation 18.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
GOD BLESS
I have said several times if we do not see the tribulation period and the wrath of God as being completely different time periods, that it will cause confusion in our understanding of prophecy in the Lastdays. If we get one thing wrong such as this, it will cause other parts of our interpretation of prophecy to not be correct. When this happens we have to twist Scripture to fit our understanding, or as I have said before we would have to read things into Scripture that's not there.
In ( Joel 2:31) We are told "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, ((BEFORE)) the great and the terrible day of the LORD come". The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes.
When does this happen in the book of Revelation?
( Rev 6:12-13) v12 "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal. and, lo, there was a great earthquake; ((and the sun became black)) as sackcloth of hair, and ((the moon became as blood)). v13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind". The sun is dark, the moon to blood, and the stars fall from heaven, all this happens at the 6th seal. Then if we look at ( Rev 6:14-17) we see the wrath of the Lamb is come in verse 17.
Do we see this any other place in the Bible? Yes we do in ( Mt 24:29-31) "Immediately ((after the tribulation)) of those days shall ((the sun be darkened)), and ((the moon shall not give her light)), and ((the stars shall fall from heaven)) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken". v30 "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". v31 "And he shall send his angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect".
After the tribulation the sun is darkened, moon shall not give her light, the stars fall from heaven, THEN the Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect. THEN the wrath of God.
As you imply, we are not "salesmen for Christ". The task of the True Believer is to be a witness for the True Gospel in our life and in the Gospel that we proclaim.
But it must be the True Gospel as circumscribed by the Bible Alone and in its Entirety. It must be the Whole Counsel of God. And that starts with the fact that by nature we are sinners under the Judgment of God for every sin that we have or will ever commit as God describes us in
Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
And so we are under the Wrath of God for our sins, Eternal Death. But God has provided a way of escape by paying the full penalty required for the sins of those whom He has chosen to save. So we can come to God like the Publican in Luke 18:13, striped of any self righteousness, pleading for Mercy with a broken and contrite heart. There is then the very real hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God.
We, by nature, do not want this kind of a Gospel. God saves us by His Grace Alone. We are not in control.
Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Jonah 3:4-10 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Ezekiel 36:24-32 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.