Discuss Job 32

Permit me to follow the example of Elihu and act in accordance with his statement in Job 32:21-22.

In a previous comment, you emphasized the importance of properly considering a matter before speaking, so as not to appear as "fools." I wonder if perhaps the claim that Christ will reign with the saints on earth was rebutted too quickly, without sufficient consideration.

The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 14:2-3 are described as the firstfruits of those saved in Israel after the rapture, as verse 14 clarifies. However, this does not imply that Christ will not return to earth with them. They will return together with all who have inherited salvation, as seen in Revelation 21:1-3.

It is also important to note that the New Jerusalem, symbolically represented as the Bride, represents the spiritual Church or body of Christ. This is supported in Hebrews 12:22, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 2:19-22, 1 Peter 2:5, and 1 Corinthians 3:9. Only those who have received the Spirit of Christ are considered part of the Church of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 8:9).

This Church will return to earth and reign with Christ for a thousand years, as indicated in Revelation 20:4, Revelation 12:5, and Revelation 19:15.

As Elihu said in Job 34:22: "If you have understanding, hear this; listen to the voice of my words."

Please note that my words are not intended as insults or to cause offense, for that would not reflect the love that the Lord Jesus expects from us. Rather, my intention is to encourage careful consideration of matters from a biblical perspective, rather than relying solely on worldly opinion. As the Lord Jesus said, many teach the traditions of men as doctrine, and as Paul says, we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.

Is our soul or spirit immortal?

Part 1

In Christianity, the belief in the immortality of the soul has been influenced by ancient Greek philosophy, especially the teachings of two notable philosophers, Socrates and Plato. This philosophy views death as the separation of the soul from the body. Plato described the body as a prison for the soul and saw death as a means of freeing the soul.

This philosophy of death started blending in the church in the second-third century, some saying the good souls go to heaven, but the bad souls go to hell. Augustine of Hippo, a theologian and philosopher who was made a saint, held this philosophy, strongly influencing the doctrines in the church in the fourth and early fifth centuries, and later John Calvin taught it.

Some interpret 2 Corinthians 5:6-9 to mean that when we die, we go to be present with the Lord. This interpretation is also linked to Ecclesiastes 12:6-7, this is not dependent on salvation, all human spirits, regardless if the person is saved or not, return to God because the spirit in man comes from God, Job 32:8, Zachariah 12:1.

The soul: The Bible does not teach that the soul is immortal, but in Ezekiel 18:20, all souls are God's, and the soul that sinneth shall die, in Matthew 10:28, hell is the Word Gehenna which refers to the Lake of Fire. As written in the Bible, in Genesis 2:7, when God formed Adam out of the dust of the ground and with the breath of life from God, Adam became a living soul, that is all of Adam, the complete identity of Adam, including consciousness, desires, and emotions.

When God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and he became a living soul/being. The Hebrew word for soul is nephesh, which means a breathing creature, not a spiritual entity. It can describe a person's soul, life, mind, will, and even our body, not one thing, but the whole of the person, the true self. 1 Peter 3:20, eight souls were saved. Acts 2:43, Romans 13:1

See part 2

Is our soul or spirit immortal?

Part 2

The Bible consistently indicates that souls can die and cease to exist. For example, Matthew 10:28, it mentions that the soul can be destroyed, implying it is not immortal. The Greek word translated as soul is psuche, which has several meanings, including the vital breath, the breath of life, the human soul, the soul as the seat of affections and will, consciousness, a human person. Essentially, it includes who we are, and is inseparable.

This does not happen until we are resurrected, when Jesus Christ returns, it is a gift of God, Romans 2:5-7. Immortality is not given until the resurrection from the dead, only then will we be absent from this flesh and blood body and present with the Lord, Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-6. The Bible never describes the soul of man as immortal or eternal. We die and are buried mortal, dead in corruption, and we will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. Every part of us is mortal, and we must put on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

The spirit: The spirit is the breath of life given to us by God, in Luke 25:46 Jesus said to His Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. In Acts 7:59, Stephen said Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. The spirit empowers us to experience God's profound love, it is through the spirit that we are empowered to live according to the ways of God, embracing righteousness and walking in His ways, in God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, rather than walking in the ways of the world.

Our spirit is how we communicate with God, Job 32:8, Proverbs 20:27, John 4:24, 1 Corinthians 2:10-12. God inspires or motivates us by stirring up the spirit in a person, 1 Chronicles 5:25-26. God inspired King Cyrus to issue a decree, allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem, Ezra 1:1.

See part 3

Hi Fuji. There is some division in the Christian camp about the ultimate end of those who die rejecting Christ's Gospel, i.e. whether they simply go to the grave & are no more, or, that there will be a resurrection from the dead & under judgement to face God's Wrath. And like all doctrines & teachings we find throughout the Bible, we need to consider all references to the subject matter & not focus on a single verse or two to form a judgement.

Therefore, if we had only John 3:16 to understand the afterlife (whether it exists or not), then we could well believe that 'perish' clearly means a complete cessation of life, as in someone (the body) who perishes in a house fire or perishes by drowning. But in relation to the Scriptures, we know that God has given us a spirit & that spirit is identifies who we are, given life by God, with an outer covering (a body) to house it, yet the spirit can never perish (die). Genesis 2:7; Zechariah 12:1; Job 32:8; 1 Corinthians 2:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Ecclesiastes 3:21; Ecclesiastes 12:7.

And then we have the Judgement of God upon all, where those who belong in God's family, living a life consecrated to Him, are eternally secure from damnation, whereas all unbelievers (and their spirits can never be destroyed), suffer under God's condemnation. If only death was our final punishment for rejecting Christ, then we all still have to die as those in sinful, corrupt bodies; none can escape. This is a defective Gospel as most would prefer to cease to exist without any punishment & live life to the full, not answerable to God. But Christ's Sacrifice was to redeem lost sinful souls, not from death, but from God's eternal Punishment. Revelation 20:15; Revelation 21:8; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 13:49,50; Matthew 25:41,46; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9.

Just a few Scriptures to show the Truth of an Eternal suffering in Hell & not simply disappearing forever in the grave. Every spirit (of man) is accountable to God.

Yes, His Spirit

the Rule & Guide of a Christian life

Who inspired the holy men of God to write the Bible, which the Bible points to as the Giver of all Life, that we may freely become partake of the Life of Christ, that we may possess a personal intimate relationship with our Father though His Son Jesus Christ, who will cleanse us from all sin that we may become sons of God, by which God by His Spirit makes all these thing possible.

1Cor 15:45 Job 33:4 Rom 8:9 John 10:10

The letter can not do this & was not given to do this. Meaning the Strong Concordance or what wherever else their is out there, it maybe helpful to the little children, but its not necessary, man have put them in the place of His Spirit in discerning the things of God.,..

For the Spirit is given for this very purpose to guide, convict, teach, comfort & counsel us. Jesus states, John 16:7

He bringing us into the very Life of God the Scriptures give witness too, that all the holy men & women of God enjoy by His Spirit

John 3:27 God,

For the Father seeketh such to worship Him, meaning being led by His Spirit & Truth in all things that pertaineth to this life & without His Spirit leading us nothing is acceptable to Him. Jesus said that I only say & do as the Father reveals it to Me, our Forerunner

David,

The Spirit will always point to the Life of Christ as our Example, John 17:17-19 meaning the words God's Spirit led Him to say & do, sanctifies Him & us. 1John 2:6 1John 4:17 & will alway align Himself to the Scriptures which He, Himself inspired, along with mans nobler part, "sound reasoning". His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.

This is not against Scriptures, by no means, but fulfills them, we can't understand the truth imported by them, without the One who inspired them as Scripture plainly reveals 1Cor 2:9-14.

Job 32:8

You keep making these dogmatic statements, contrary to the Scriptures you point too!

Friend, your intoxicated. Rev 17:2 Rev 18:3,4

in L & T

Jema

How did Abraham, Issac, Rebecca, Jacob or Job & many more come to the personal experiential knowledge of God? Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. God Spirit is not limited in how He reveals Himself to mankind, dreams, visions, etc, the Scripture are full of them, but all by the operations & administration of His Spirit. God promise in Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people, Heb 8:10 quotes this, the wording is ( I ) will put My laws into their inward parts. He doeth the work, cause us to will & do of His good pleasure, & this is by His Spirit operations upon our hearts. Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

its plainly written the Gentiles ,which have not the law, which was the gospel of that dispensation. God put His laws within their hearts, & taught them Himself by His Spirit. These things were written for our example, He does the same today!

I encourage you to reread the Scriptures, the honoring of them in there proper place, is truly the benefit & enjoyment of them.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit has to say:

Thank you David. You wrote: "how are we born dead in trespasses and sins before being born again of holy spirit." I tried finding this reference in the Bible & the best I could do, was in Ephesians 2:1, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins." Maybe you have another verse that you're thinking of, so I'd be interested to look at that.

So, using my Ephesians 2:1 verse, I understand that Paul is saying that after sin was imputed to us (through committing the first act), then we died spiritually. Physically alive, but spiritually dead - but God, through His Son, has quickened (enlivened) us, that our spirits might become alive God-wards & not dead, once upon a time having our spirits inclined only towards evil. So, I can't see where we are "BORN dead in trespasses & sins" - I believe that we can only die spiritually after we sin & its imputation to us & not at birth.

Re: "body, soul, & spirit". As I shared in another thread, this triunity of man is given us in the womb - though obviously undeveloped & without expression. I don't understand if you're stating that before our spiritual re-birth, we had only a body & 'breath life soul', without a spirit? Maybe, you're equating the arrival of our spirit only upon the onset of our spiritual rebirth. I could in a small way understand what you're saying (if that's what you're inferring), except for the volume of Scriptures indicating that a human (whatever his spiritual state) must have a human spirit to be alive.

I think these Scriptures reveal what I believe: Haggai 1:14; Job 32:8; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Proverbs 20:27; Zechariah 12:1; 1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26. I've picked a few verses specifically showing the evidence of a human spirit well before ever being touched by God's Spirit. If our spirits are untouched by God's Spirit (i.e. without rebirth), we remain spiritually dead towards God, but humanly alive & our spirits accountable to Him in that coming day.

Hi everyone with Godly thoughts :) i love u all in Christ. It was nice to think of "person". A living individual with lots around. Then it also means that men are both man and woman. For since the person does not mean much, then man must mean everything else. And it's big, we are all equal before God. With schemes of course.

Words that come to mind during the day, especially since i have read all the answers you have received here. I guess everyone now understands that we are in the last days. :) OH Jesus Christ is coming soon, let us all have assurance of salvation.

You write Michael: The Earth changed the moment of Jesus's first breath as a human child. He would take all of mankind's sins on himself and pay the penalty for our freedom, from sin.

Quote end. That is exactly what i noted today. Galatians 4:4 Here it is now important to notice the confusion God's people have. Since we are trained in many areas, we go the way we want. In a way. What seems easy to understand. So that we do not have to think so much about where we are on the map, in a way. Although we all strive to come forward. Have my thoughts turned to Why am i left here on earth? With the personality i have. It is if the Lord sees that we do not bear fruit. He will take us home right away. John 15:1-8

The conclusion is that we who are on earth, still have people to save! We never really get bored. We go to work day after day. And as long as we bear fruit, we have a duty to the Lord! That is the meaning of our lives. Maybe some days we do not see this. Then it's good to come here on the web and see that your friends, siblings, are still here. We stack ourselves towards the goal that lies in the heart. Everyone, have confidence in this!

God bless us all in Jesus name, He will lead us to the whole truth. Amen

Thanks for your care T.Levy !

But, i think you are assuming that "man" and "person" has the same meaning in this ancien text, wich they not.

If they were the same, you couldnt explain the Jacob's passage wich is the mtter of this thread.

A piece of advice is...If you decide to read ancient books, dont assume or give anything for granted. Archaic english can give a whole new meaning to this passages. Cuestion, study and be enlighten.

Joy !

I lasted only 2 months on Facebook. It was too much trying to manage requests, and advertisements. I was caring for my elderly mother who had dementia;

And my 4 month old grandson (so mom could go back to work).

I'm banned from YouTube and TikTok for making religious comments. :/ I gave up lol

I buy tracts from "Chick dot com". I leave them at my usual places: bus and park benches, on sidewalks outside of goodwills, we'll placed around outside things at Lowes and Home Depot. I write names of churches in the area, on their backs. Chick has changed their outreach message to be understand the Gospel message.

I'm going to a new church planting in my town. I pray for the Anointing to fall upon every member, even children.

I totally believe God sent them here. Services being right on a walking trail. It tells me there is demonic opposition. I was yelled off the sidewalk outside of Christian Scientists Church numerous times :D I don't think Satan should feel so comfortable. Prayer changes atmosphere.

Thank God for praying grandfathers and grandmas!

Precious man of God, you are a paramedic fireman, like I was. You see the need__the wounded, those losing hope; you can send some here. Every one in here knows how precious each soul is to Jesus. Jesus carry's His Lambs in His arms. May we ask God to watch over every new birth, with His angels.

We answer all questions, and pray too.

Streetpreacher

As always I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts. Your heart has watered me on many an occasion. Thank you. May I offer something the Lord has placed upon my heart ro share, please;

I used to run rampant on social media. Gloating of my physique, possessions etc. A man of flesh. At some point things began to change. I saw social media as septic. As a trap. I deleted all social media. (This was years ago.) During covid I felt lead to reach out to people(among the lonely dark times) and decided to create just one social media account. Recently, on this account I felt pulled to begin sharing Jesus. The shame and embarrassment I would have previously felt dissolved. I have posted more and more about our Father and the Bible but in a non-overbearing or "shove it down your throat" manner. Subtle. Since posting I have had many people thank me. They said that seeing or reading these posts has helped them to reconnect with the Father. They have felt refreshed when seeing a post during a hard day or exactly when they needed a slice of hope and encouragement. Many have become so surprised to learn how my life has changed. One dear friend shared that he has begun to think about things he never considered. Even said he would like to check out my church soon! His first service ever. I challenge those who have social media to step onto the diving board. Shine just a bit of light into that darkness. Social media is a true representation of the world. Are we to not shine light unto the world? Use social media as a platform for reaching others. Take the ridicule, bare your cross. Set the example. Share His love and presence in the darkness. We don't need "likes," we need Jesus.

(I will also state I am not a fan of FB for many reasons but for the sake of above comments, there's at least a bit of purpose to that platform.)

God Bless my brother! I look forward to your words each evening. You are a man of great wisdom and passion.

Genesis 5:1-2, Genesis 1:26-28,

Hopefully these are helpful

You did all the work, and I'm grateful for your post.

I would've answered, man. But nowadays people have separated us into "groups"; according to sexual preference. It's another sign of Jesus's return, in the clouds.

Briefly__Earth was created for man. Lucifer was here as a serpent. He is not now or since the garden of Eden, human. Jesus is God, but he appeared as the Angel of the Lord in OT. Humans live in the constraint of time.

It was the act of Abraham being willing to sacrifice his own son (as ordered), we are able to understand the depth of pain God felt about sacrificing his own son for us humans. Time flowed until Mary and Joseph. It was time for Jesus to enter the world as a mere human. He laid aside all his powers to do that.

The Earth changed the moment of Jesus's first breath as a human child. He would take all of mankind's sins on himself and pay the penalty for our freedom, from sin.

Satan, still without a body; but he could borrow bodies of willing humans. It still happens this day. Christians are different because we believe the blood Jesus shed for us, is upon us. We have authority and power, in the NAME of Jesus to force Satan to leave, go into outer darkness. Evil spirits too. All must bow their knee to the Risen Son of God. Jesus Name, saves us.

We Christians are missing opportunities to reach out to our communities, or the one on Facebook (that I do not have). I'm here if anyone wants to send a friend here for conversation and prayer for their needs. Everyone in here wants to help.

This shooting in Uvalde has really disturbed me that no one probably knew the abuse the grandmother suffered. We need to do more evangelistically. Have calling cards with the name of this room on it. Leave Facebook and come here. I will fast and pray the Prince of the power of the air LEAVE our air space. He's not all powerful. Jesus gave us His Name and His authority.

We can agree and it will be done. Believe it.

Thank you Mishael; in the meantime I did my research.

Common sense indicates me that since this text (KJV) is a traduction from other texts in another language (maybe hebrew?), in ancient times, i guess maybe the traductors tried to find a word that resemble the same concept for that word used in the originals.

But theres another thing to take in account.

Since this bible was wrote in 1611, the word "person" can not significate the same that in modern times (in the juristic sense, and in the vulgar use of it).

So i went to Merriam Webster Dcty.

And found the following:

In archaic english; "person" means : bodily appearance.

And that makes sense to me.

In that time "person" didnt mean "a human being", or an "individual"; they used the word "man" for that.

So, "person" in the context of the scriptures written in the 15 century is meaning "the fisical appereance of a man" coincidentaly to the latin etimology.

And the Lord God is continualy advicing us no to make diferences on behalf the person, nor to make acceptance of it.

Thanks again Mishael !

The study of that one word is gigantic. Hang out here until Chris comes in tomorrow.

I went on Google and typed: person, Bible meaning

The results are like a small book. Be patient.

Can you tell me wich is the correct definition of "person" in the context of the KJV Bible ?

In this bible clearly, "man" and "person" are two diferent concepts. But where is "person" defined ?

I mean, in Latin, "person/a" refers to the mask wich were used by actors at that time.

So I assume, that In this ancient texts, the term "Person" can not be interpretated as the modern concept of "person/a".

Job 32:21 "Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man"

Thanks all in advance !

Oh if only ! Smiley face .

Job 32:6

And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.

Job 32:10

Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

Job 32:17

I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.

There are three times in the KJV that the English word "opinion" is used, all in Job 32. The book of Job is a book of arguments. The word "arguments" is found only one time in the Bible, also in Job.

Job 23:4

I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

The English word "arguing" is also found only one time in the Bible, in Job.

Job 6:25

How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?

Job and his three friends all expressed their opinions and argued in support of their opinions but God rebuked all four of them in the end for the errors in their thinking. Elihu was not rebuked and he was the only one of the lot who did not come across as one who is right and everyone else was wrong. He gave his opinions (which were right), called them his opinions, and offered for any of the others to prove him wrong after he spoke.

Elihu was right and should be a lesson to us about arguing our opinions in front of others. Give our views as our views and genuinely and politely allow others to express opposition with their arguments.

Job 32:6

And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.

Job 32:10

Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

Job 32:17

I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.

There are three times in the KJV that the English word "opinion" is used, all in Job 32. The book of Job is a book of arguments. The word "arguments" is found only one time in the Bible, also in Job.

Job 23:4

I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments.

The English word "arguing" is also found only one time in the Bible, in Job.

Job 6:25

How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?

Job and his three friends all expressed their opinions and argued in support of their opinions but God rebuked all four of them in the end for the errors in their thinking. Elihu was not rebuked and he was the only one of the lot who did not come across as one who is right and everyone else was wrong. He gave his opinions (which were right), called them his opinions, and offered for any of the others to prove him wrong after he spoke.

Elihu was right and should be a lesson to us about arguing our opinions in front of others. Give our views as our views and genuinely and politely allow others to express opposition with their arguments.

Kay,

2John 1:5-11, James 4:4-5, I'm reminded of 2Kings 20:12-18, Isaiah 39:1-7, Micah 7:5, Proverbs 19:4,= Job 19:14, Proverbs 14:20, Psalms 38:11,

Proverbs 19:7, Luke 21:16, Proverbs 19:6, Proverbs 18:24, Proverbs 27:6,

Even Jesus friends : Mark 3:21, Zechariah 13:6, Psalms 41:9, Luke 7:34, Matthew 11:19, Matthew 26:48-50

John 15:14-26, Job 42:10, -after = ( Job 32:3 ), Mark 5:19, Luke 14:12-14,

Hopefully these are helpful for wisdom in your love & wisdom towards GOD, your friends & close friends

I have taken that to be wisdom especially when we think to highly of someone & they fall into sin. Putting too much trust in man, woman, their position or title, for example. This was advice maybe through experience.

Proverbs 6:30, Proverbs 6:23-26,

Hopefully these scriptures are also helpful in reference

Genesis 25:34, Hebrews 12:16, 1Samuel 25:10-38,

It is also commanded

Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 24:23, James 1:1-10, Colossians 3:25, Ephesians 6:9, Job 32:21, 2 Chronicles 19:7, Deuteronomy 16:19,

Example Luke 20:21, Matthew 22:16, even when trying to trap Jesus they testified that HE wasn't a "respecter of persons"

Jesus was tested by this Luke 4:2-4,

Is it also coincidence that it was a piece of bread that was given before betrayal by Jesus? John 13:18,21-27, John 6:33,

The inspired WORD of GOD. Job 32:8, 2 Timothy 3:16

UTube is like a minefield, as is all the other social media sites.it's the devils playground. I try not to go there.keep my nose in the Bible.

Job 32:8

"But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding."

God Bless

Lamar,

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and BREATHED into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL." Gen 2:7

The Hebrew term for a being (nefesh, "being") is often translated "soul," but the word usually refers to the whole person. The phrase living soul (nefesh khayyah, "living being") is used of both animals and human beings.

However, in this instance, we see God who "BREATHED into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a LIVING SOUL."

The Hebrew word for breath (neshamah, "breath") is used for God and for the life imparted to humans, not animals. Its usage in the Bible conveys more than a breathing living organism (nefesh khayyah). Whatever is given this breath of life becomes animated with the life from God,

1) has spiritual understanding ( Job 32:8), and

2) has a functioning conscience (Pro 20:27).

To Alex: Please look again where you will find the identity of Elihu. You'll find his identity in Job 32:2.

No, Elihu (from the Book of Job) wasn't a priest. He wasn't part of the group of Job's three 'friends', maybe just an onlooker/observer, but there is no indication that he came from a priestly line.

He remained quiet for the most part while the others threw false accusations against Job, but in Job 32:2, he could not restrain himself & then spoke up. Even though his words seems equally accusatory against Job, when they are studied properly, we find that he was more accurate in his judgements.

A True Heart Breaking Story. Job is Also Mentioned in The Book of Ezekiel 14:14,20 and James 5:11

The book of Job is a part of our Holy Bible. There are reasons that God made this to Be that I don't know. If I am correct, it is a poetic book of fiction by an unknown author yet the character named Elihu expresses Christ-like praise of God The Father. I am in awe of this demonstration of our Heavenly Father's Faithful presence in His Children's lives since He first created us.

Ida, John 1-3 Job 33:4 Job 32:8

Just scripture, "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know. Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person. For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away." Job 32:21-22. "Be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth, for one is your Father" Matt 23:8-10