Discuss Hebrews 12 Page 7

Janet,

It says follow peace with all people, and the term follow is literally continually be pursuing. If I were to have the Lord's permission to insert a little note here, it would be "Now concerning your relationship with your fellow teammates, continually pursue peace with your brethren, the one's you are running the race with."

Follow after peace, and then it says, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Who are you supposed to be seeing? The Lord! If you get off the track, if you get out of running the race, your eyes are no longer on Jesus.

Something else I am looking at in this verse is the word holiness. You are correct in saying "As long as we live in our earthly bodies we (our flesh nature) will not be 'sinless'." Our flesh is corrupt. The only holiness we have is Christ in us. And it is Christ in us that gives us the ability to be continually pursuing peace with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Hello Janet,

Holy simply means "separate" in the Hebrew (and Greek) language, and it simply is a commandment to separate ourselves from "worldly" living, thinking, desires, etc. True no one is or ever will be without sin in this life, for ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. But all through the gospels we are encouraged to "crucify" the flesh daily and walk in the Spirit. Be ye not "unequally yoked" with unbelievers, is the basic premise in that context. Don't over-think it, sister, or you will set yourself up for failure. Been there; done that! Lol! Just BE JANET, and believe; the Holy Spirit will guide you the rest of the way.

God bless and keep you!

I want to correct something I wrote in error. "Also Hebrews 11:40 and Hebrews 12:1 show that the people in Hebrews 11 ultimately HAD their faith made perfect when WE ENTERED into the New Covenant."

What Hebrews 11:40 really shows is that the people in Hebrews 11 WILL NOT be made perfect without us.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

This indicates a future perfection for both them and us, with our perfection either coming at the same time as theirs or before theirs. The perfection being spoken of I take to be the same as 1 Corinthians 13:10

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I do believe that there is a connection in Hebrews 11 between the examples of faith before Christ the author lists and our faith in Christ ( Hebrews 11:6,9-10,14-16,19,25-26) as well as their future perfection and ours ( Hebrews 11:39-40), otherwise it is hard to understand the purpose of Hebrews 11 in my view.

Anyway, I wanted to correct what I said. It is harder than I thought to deal with topics that don't have an easy proof text and present them within a 2000 character limit without any mischaracterazation of scripture in my summaries. And in this case I did have a misunderstanding of what the author of Hebrews wrote that I only realized after reading the scriptures I had referenced more carefully.

If you believe in Jesus , that he is the Son of God and you have been baptized into him then he is your righteousness and your sins are forgiven . As long as you try very hard to live your life in a way that is acceptable to God , you will still sin some times , we all do , as long as you are trying and when you do fail you talk to God about it and ask Him to forgive you through the name of Jesus Christ , then you will be forgiven .

Dear "Janet D", Body, soul and Spirit all belong to the Lord. Jesus came to earth for us in a carnal state. Compared to Him, we are sinners. He was/is not. But on the Cross God neeeded too leave Him, so Jesus could die. Jesus had to use his last strength in a few words. Mark 15:34

When we say we are not sinners it is because Jesus simply, the one / those who believe in Me will be saved. John 14:6. We are washed clean of what He bled on Calvary. John 13:10 What was before Christ was a lawful deed. Is now by His offer given us freedom from the law. Jesus fulfilled the whole law.

I can not give you any shortcuts. But for your own part, read the New Testament and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. Also read the references to the old testament. Get the assurance of salvation dear.

The apostle Paul writes a lot about Sanctification, the body of sin and salvation in his letters, example Romans 8

Be and stay blessed in His Holy Name, love u in Christ.

Hebrews 9:15

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

While some commentators say the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament only applied to believers under the law that came to faith after Jesus died, many say this applied to all sins committed by God's elect in all ages who had the faith of Hebrews 11:6 that pleased God. I take the later view. Also Hebrews 11:40 and Hebrews 12:1 show that the people in Hebrews 11 ultimately had their faith made perfect when we entered into the New Covenant.

They also had the first messianic promise of the Seed of the woman in the curse God uttered against the serpent immediately after the fall before he curse woman and man ( Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.)

The old testament was a progressive revelation of the promise within the serpent's curse in numerous ways. It was always expanded by God making other promises, like the promised multiplying of the seed of Abraham like the stars in the heavens which Abraham believed and by that faith was counted righteous. The Messianic Psalms of David. The prophesied Servant of Isaiah. The prophesied New Covenant of Jeremiah. And those are just a small sample of these kinds of promises. We know 2 Corinthiand 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. I believe Jesus was always an inseparable part of every promise God ever made in the Old Testament from the moment He made them and that is what those old testament saints were believing in, even if only seen in shadow. Even we still only know in part and see through a glass darkly when we look at God's prophetic promises 1 Corinthians 13:9-12.

It should have for believers, but with all things involving people change was difficult and many Jews had difficulty leaving it behind. Social pressures, rejection by families and being put out of the synagogues brought challenges and the temptation to go along to get along. That is why the book of Hebrews was written. The author was trying to prevent Jewish believers from turning back to the sacrificial system and showing them Jesus was superior in every way to that system.

Here is my attempt to summarize Hebrews:

Jesus superior to the prophets: Hebrews 1:1-3

Jesus superior to angels: Hebrews 1:4-14, Hebrews 2:1-8

Jesus able to represent humanity: Hebrews 2:9-18

Jesus superior to Moses: Hebrews 3:1-6

Warnings about hardening our hearts to God's calling: 3:7-19

Warnings about missing God's rest provided by faith in Jesus: 4:1-13

Jesus provides bold access as our high priest: 4:14-16, Jesus meets high priest requirements: Hebrews 5:1-10

Warning about being dull of hearing and unprepared for a deeper teaching: Hebrews 5:11-14, 6:1-8

Encouragement to believe that they are ready for deeper teaching: Hebrews 6:9-12

Teaching about the importance of God giving His oath to Christ He would be a priest forever: Hebrews 6:13-20

Teaching the superiority of the order of Melchisedek that Christ belongs to over the Levitical priesthood order: Hebrews 7:1-28

Christ's priesthood serves the heavenly reality that the law only was an earthly copy of: Hebrews 8:1-5

The superiority of the New Covenant over the Old: Hebrews 8:6-13,

The superiority of Christ's complete sevice over the incomplete Levitical service: Hebrews 9:1-28

The superiority of Christ's sacrifice: Hebrews 10:1-22

Warnings about drawing back: Hebrews 10:23-39

Importance of and examples of faith: Hebrews 11:1-40

Exhortation to submit to chastisement: Hebrews 12:1-29

Exhortation to practically live out their Christian faith and benediction: Hebrews 13:1-25

Jesus superior to

Reading the people Bible commentary for Heb 12:14, it says: pure and sinless lives, without a holy life no one shall be in fellowship with God. No man shall see the Lord.

Can someone please comment on this,

As long as we live in our earthly bodies we (our flesh nature) will not be 'sinless',

Thank you.

It is important to remember the admonition in Luke "help me with my unbelief" ( Mark 9:24). There is too much emphasis these days as I am sure you are aware of emotion in regard to worship. That being said; there needs at some point in are walk a recognition that the Spirit is living inside us. Hebrews 12:6 indicates that "He chastises all He loves". Recognition of the BENEFITS of this makes us live as Peter did rather than Judas Iscariot who Christ never took the time to rebuke. Iron sharpens iron ( Prov. 27:17). Exhortation; along with encouragement among the saints seems to be a forgotten trait; but nonetheless is helpful in building up the church.

It is certain from the Prophets and their encounters with the Living God that when we stand before our judge; there is no lack of sensing His Holiness. Another problem today is the lack of fear of God. Numerous verses indicate that the "fear of God is the beginning of understanding ( Prov. 9:10).

Clearly there are two things that stand in the way of sensing the Spirit of God if we are truly saved. Before this; the "god of this world" has blinded man to the truth. ( 2 Cor. 4:4). The first issue is the old nature; which is continually contending with the Spirit; and vice versa. Our minds are saturated with all sorts of imaginations due to our fallen nature; and the way it has been marred with past patterns of sin. In tandem with this; of course is Satan and his minions which work with the world system to keep men in subjection. There is certainly the issue of spiritual oppression even if a believer can't be possessed directly (a debatable issue). We need to evaluate if there is any wicked way in us; and realize that "obedience is better than sacrifice". ( 1 Samuel 15:22). Other N.T. verses indicate that before offering a sacrifice; forgiveness with an estranged brother is needed. We are also commanded to love the brethren; and esteem others as higher than ourselves. I hope this helps somewhat.

(Reposted under correct thread)

Congratulations on being a Christian long enough to not feel the Spirit. Read the Psalms and you will find that feeling that God has gone silent or stopped hearing us is not unusual for the saints. Psalm 13, Psalm 28. Psalm 44, Psalm 83, Psalm 109.

The Spirit's fruit of patience comes when we thirst and hunger for God, but must continue to sow to the Spirit in trust that at the proper time we will reap the fruits of joy and peace. There is always a span of time that must pass between sowing and reaping, when the Spirit is at work causing growth that is not exciting to watch or easy to see on a moment by moment basis. Sowing in tears and reaping in joy after a much longer span of time has passed than we like is often the life of godly Christians. Psalm 126:5-6

Of course, if the Spirit is convicting you of unrepented sin, confess it and repent. God sons all must learn from the unpleasantness of His discipline and chastisement, which shows that He loves us and does not want to see us condemned with the world. Those trained by it reap peace. Hebrews 12:5-11 and James 1:2-4

Without knowing anything about the length of time you have been a Christian, what life you came out of before becoming a Christian, or how much of the pure milk of the word you have tasted it is hard to know what you most need to hear. So I will let you consider what I have written first to see if you gain anything from this or want to provide a little more context for your post.

Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our salvation, if I may suggest that you read Hebrews chapter 10 and it explains the necessity of Jesus dying on the cross.

John 19:19, Matthew 27:40-42, Mark 15:30-32, 1 Corinthians 1:18, Hebrews 12:2

Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 22:6, Colossians 3:21,

Proverbs 22:15, Proverbs 29:15, Proverbs 23:13, Ephesians 6:4,

It's been quoted "spare the rod spoil the child" it's about discipline, correcting a child. Hebrews 12:8, Hebrews 12:9, Hebrews 8,

Isaiah 53:5,

Hopefully these are helpful

There are 27 scriptures that say it was a cross. Only 2 say Pole

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Galatians 5:11

And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:14

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Ephesians 2:16

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Philippians 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Philippians 3:18

(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Colossians 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Colossians 2:14

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Hebrews 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

*Next 2 verses referring to Jesus

Numbers 21:8

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a POLE: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, SHALL LIVE.

Numbers 21:9

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, HE LIVED.

Hey Charles,

Thank you, may your lamp be full, and your talents be more than you were given. Many find teachers with pleasing words, feel good for a day, back in the world after walking out the door, and not truly repenting, thinking everything is hunky-dory. I don't believe sin goes dormant, there is a battle every day between the flesh and the Spirit in our conscience/spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit's work that empowers us to do our purpose. Like Paul said in Romans 7:18-19 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Hebrews 12:1-3 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Liz.

Good Question. I believe love is a fruit of the spirit. When the spirit works in the life of a believer it's God expressing himself through the believer. It is not anything you manifest, It's an reaction. However sometimes we grieve the spirit by obeying the flesh.

Now God doesn't compromise his other attributes when displaying love. such as chastening, Judging or his Holiness. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Hebrews 12:6.

And I believe that also his passed on to a mature Christian.

For instance do you express the truth when another believer is in a fault to restore them or do you compromise the truth and bypass them altogether.

Example: Galatians 6:1.

Speaking truth to one another is a way of expressing Gods love, But is sometimes not received very well.

God bless.

Hi Adrian. I believe that is correct in so far as, that sickness, pain & suffering come to all of us without exception, because we are a spiritually & morally fallen race. The moment we are born into the world with sin's nature having taken root & hold upon us, sin's course ultimately leads to death. And in that process of a gradual weakening & failing of our body's organs, we prove that in spite of any spiritual re-birth or discipline to holy living, ultimately the sin that grips our body will have the last word. I know that all this sounds very morbid but all of us are subject to the same end: that which is the outcome of sin ( Romans 6:23; James 1:15; Romans 5:12).

Yet, you might be thinking of a person's particular suffering or sickness (e.g. Job - which was a specific instance of God's Permission given to Satan to test Job's character & faithfulness; & maybe God stills allows this today- I can't tell). Yet we also know that God does discipline His child who wilfully continues in sin, not receiving correction ( Hebrews 12:5-11; Revelation 3:19; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Psalm 94:12,13). But His discipline comes in various ways & degrees of severity, as a father would mete out to his erring child. So the bottom line could be expressed as: if we were NOT sinners, living in all purity & holiness before God, there would be no physical sickness coming upon us, nor would there be need for any correction or discipline by God or man. But we should be cautious in trying to interpret every sickness or hardship being the result of some spiritual or moral failing - not always, but sometimes - each one will know in his heart from whence this comes.

Son's of GOD = 1 John 4:15, Galatians 4:7, 1 John 5:10, Ezra 3:2, Hebrews 12:7, Revelation 21:7, 1 Timothy 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:2-3,

Jesus CHRIST the MESSIAH referred to the most as Son of GOD. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, Hebrews, etc.

Luke 3:38,

* Romans 8:14, * Hebrews 1:13-14,

I understand "Son's of GOD presented themselves before GOD" to mean= they prayed notice Job 1:5, "offered burnt offerings" then vrs. 6._._._ the accuser came, Revelation 12:10,

Genesis 4:26, Luke 3:38,

Exodus 34:2, Leviticus 14:11, Leviticus 16:28, 1 Samuel 10:19, Daniel 9:18, Luke 2:22, Romans 12:1, Jude 1:24-25,

Hi Alex N; glad to hear from you again, this subject is one of great depth concerning the kingdom, perhaps I understand this doctrine differently than you do as the first dispensation and manifestation of the kingdom has happened already. When we were born again we enter the kingdom John 3:5 The Apostle Paul taught we were translated from darkness into the kingdom of Christ, which I believe refers unto our spirit alone in Colossians 1:13 Again we already received the kingdom in Hebrews 12:28 These truths cannot be denied, Yet we look forward to the millennial kingdom of God as in Revelation 20:4 knowing this kingdom of Christ will come as you mentioned in Revelation 12:10 which indicates the middle of the seven year tribulation. Now we differ as I believe the man child are the sons of God, Christians who are mature, being led by the Holy Ghost, as in Romans 8:14 I cannot accept the man child to be the Holy Ghost, for the man child is raptured in Rev. 12:5-6 in the middle of the tribulation, yet the bible affirms constantly the Holy Ghost is here on earth working in the 144,000 the two witnesses, and all children of God during the tribulation, and such like. I do not interpret the woman as humanity, like you do, as the woman to me is the church of Jesus Christ as in Rev. 12:17 she has the testimony of Christ and keeps commandments, Israel does not have these things, and the world does not have these things either, only the church can have these things. Remember the woman is clothed with the sun, a metaphor for the gospel, the moon under her feet, meaning to have power over Satan and all fallen angels, which only the church has in the name of Jesus Christ. You are right to call the city New Jerusalem the kingdom of heaven, as this kingdom of God comes after the millennial kingdom of Christ, yet it is the final manifestation of the kingdom of heaven. I will ask therefore, have you taken into account, not all Christians will make it into the kingdom. Mat.7:21

It's simple to get saved, but the process of sanctification is hard. Before I elaborate, I assume you're referring how a sodomite can get saved; "gay" biblically means cheerful, "sodomy/sodomite" means those who practice same sex fornication.

You meet God in his own terms:

1.) You have to be in a broken and contrite state.

Psalms 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

2.) You call upon Jesus to save you.

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

3.) Put your faith in the Lord. (Take note that the eunuch called upon the Lord, he didn't just believe his way to salvation)

Acts 8:37 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

If you followed these steps, then you are saved; you will have assurance of your salvation as it'll come through chastening, if you don't have any chastening in your life, then you're not saved.

Hebrews 12:7

"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

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If you're still confused, ask Jesus to show you the way to salvation, he'll give you wisdom.

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Hi Gloria. I believe this verse in Hebrews 12:1, describes "weight" as any encumbrance or burden that would come in the way of us finishing the race before us. Jesus is our goal, not only to be with Him but to live for Him in the life He has given us. He is the reason for our salvation & the sure hope we now have for time & eternity. If He means that much to His followers, then His followers must continually examine themselves (any sins & any hindrances), deal with them & live before Him in all good conscience. Otherwise, we might just be ashamed at His Coming - when His Coming is unexpected.

Karen Sue Your correct Jesus Christ suffered once for all time for mans sin, in fact in the old testament

it say he was beaten more than any man that ever lived so no matter what movie you've seen as an example

when he was put on the cross you did not want to look upon Him and I believe without almost getting

physically I'll. The enemy did everything he could to make Jesus sin or break fellowship and he never did.

In fact in hebrews 12:2 Who for the joy that was set before Him he knew the goal and did it ALL OUT OF THE

LOVE OF GOD WORKING IN CHRIST. When born again God sees us as His children because we endeavor to

believe and walk honestly before Him we are no longer fighting with out father we work on walking with Him

in harmony and alignment on His word and to boot all sin payed in full once and for all. That's the grace that

we do not want to buck against because that's like kicking God and His son in the face saying I don't care, then

we lose and so does God because he wants us to walk and be witnesses and more than conquerors through

His Son who Loved us and gave Himself for us.

Hi Kathy,

I would like to add to the truth Cait has given referencing Hebrews 12:18-23. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

BUT YE ARE COME UNTO MOUNT SION, AND UNTO THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, THE ( HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, ) and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Notice the contrast. In Exodus 19:10-12. THE LORD TELL MOSES TO SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE AND TELL THEM TO WASH THERE CLOTHES, and bring them the third day, and they still couldn't touch the border of the law given mountain!!

In the Heavenly Jerusalem God don't wash garments, he gives new ones.

Zechariah 2:10-13.

Zechariah 3:1-9.

Ephesians 4:20-24.

Colossians 3:9-10.

Parallel-

Galatians 4:21-26. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: FOR THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

BUT JERUSALEM WHICH IS ABOVE IS FREE, WHICH IS THE MOTHER OF US ALL.

Romans 8:3-4.

A general area to study in.

Hopefully someone will add.

God bless.

I have taken that to be wisdom especially when we think to highly of someone & they fall into sin. Putting too much trust in man, woman, their position or title, for example. This was advice maybe through experience.

Proverbs 6:30, Proverbs 6:23-26,

Hopefully these scriptures are also helpful in reference

Genesis 25:34, Hebrews 12:16, 1Samuel 25:10-38,

It is also commanded

Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 24:23, James 1:1-10, Colossians 3:25, Ephesians 6:9, Job 32:21, 2 Chronicles 19:7, Deuteronomy 16:19,

Example Luke 20:21, Matthew 22:16, even when trying to trap Jesus they testified that HE wasn't a "respecter of persons"

Jesus was tested by this Luke 4:2-4,

Is it also coincidence that it was a piece of bread that was given before betrayal by Jesus? John 13:18,21-27, John 6:33,

There have been several moments that were very difficult for me. Just recently I realized the years I studied scripture being confined mostly to bed after injuries: GOD ALMIGHTY is using it today, in being able to point others to scripture, without that difficult moment._..? .. would I have studied even half as much?. John 14:26, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18,

The losses I've suffered, has given me strength years before these recent trials. GOD had me prepared to face many difficulties. Through GOD's grace, taught me deeper trust in him & deeper realization of these scriptures. Hebrews 12:27-29, 2 Corinthians 1:3-7,

1 John 4:18,

Thank you for your blessing.

Hopefully these encourage you

Genesis 36:1, Hebrews 11:20, Hebrews 12:14-17,

Important scriptures on why= Hebrews 12:16

Obadiah 1:1-21,

Obadiah 1:10,11,12,13,14

Hopefully these are helpful in your discussion & understanding.

Page 1.

Brother Dan. I'm glad that you found the time to go through that article. To that end & in light of your comments, I would add or clarify:

a. Your quote of Page 4 of Ironside's article: God our Father & Jesus our Judge. I understand that God deals with His children as just that - His children, as those adopted into His family through His Son. We can never be judged again for our sins - we faced judgement when we came to the Cross & gazed upon the crucified One, trusting Him to bear our sins & reconcile us to God. Now judgement remains for those who reject the offer of salvation. As sons, He will chastise us (even as a good father would - Hebrews 12:5-11), whether that gentle warning or more severe dealing with, that we may realize our error & come back into sweet fellowship. The only time we see Jesus as our Judge, is at His Judgement Seat (called, Bema) where rewards are given as per our earthly Christian conduct ( 2 Corinthians 5:10; cf 1 Corinthians 3:12-15) when the full worth of our Christian lives will pass by us. The judgement of the unsaved is certain ( Revelation 20:11-15) where even the good that they have done cannot save them.

Amen David, a goal to look forward to indeed.

Just as Jesus stedfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem ( Luke 9:51), and from that time forward, nothing could get Him off track, so are we to run the race set before us with our eyes fixed on Jesus. The word stedfastly means a fixed established position. This is probably where Paul got his ministry. In Philippians, when he strives for the high calling in Christ Jesus, he has got one thing in mind, one direction in where he heads, and that is the mission for which Christ has sent him. Just as Jesus had a fixed established position towards Jerusalem where nothing was going to stop Him, we are to also set our face toward Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith ( Hebrews 12:2).

Brother Ronald, Revelation is signified. The lake of fire REPRESENTS SOMETHING.

The first and death death REPRESENTS SOMETHING.

Since there is a second death, there has to also be a first death.

The chosen take part in the first death ( John 12:25) while they still have breath in their nostrils.

In Revelation 9:18 The third are killed (they die for Christ's life as Christ died to give you his life) by fire and brimstone. IN CHRIST (also Revelation 8)

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Ezekiel 5:2-4 This is the same third described in Revelation 9:18 and Zechariah 13:9

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity, He that killeth (teaches truth) with the sword (the word) must also be killed with the sword (the word).

You are in the lake of fire, being purified and destroyed at the same time.

God Bless You!

Hello James Carlson, that's powerful. People suffer much from lies & much from believing lies. Your comment, speaks deeper into devastating "news" heard, effects from it. With wisdom you were shown this, insightful. I think it was a revelation to you personally & others that have been devastated by lies. The toll it can take on a person. However I agree with Chris, I think I would go further to say I think many loving parents would immediately run to their children to make sure the news was correct, to care for them even in death, cover them & give a proper burial, ect. Job was beyond average as a Parent in that: Job 1:5. He was very concerned for them to be right with GOD, that he would make sacrifice on their behalf. Like Earl, Gi Gi, mentioned, pointing to GOD's bigger picture of GOD's atonement for us through Jesus. That's probably why Job is sometimes called prophetic book. Interesting I hadn't seen that beforehand. Gi Gi, & Sacha have the most perfect point that it is most significant whoes report we believe, in that GOD says nothing shall harm you by any means. Luke 10:19. Knowing all things will work together for good._.._ Romans 8:28-29, Even in disaster & disastrous moments when we believe GOD, HIS WORD, HIS report we will be much better off in every way. Hebrews 12:26-29, we should not be as; Luke 21:26

Didn't read all comments, hopefully this is encouraging. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts & intellectual insight.

Mathew 19.28 Luke 22.30

THRONES

Palms 122 .5. Thrones

Revelation 20.4

And I saw THRONES , and they that say upon them , and judgement was given unto them