Daniel
King James Version (KJV)
Discuss Daniel 12 Page 6
Viewing page: 6 of 16
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
This form of self-transformation is also referred to as self-righteousness ( Romans 10-3), while in truth you follow after a image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9). This is how Satan has transformed himself into an angel of light ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15) and deceived the whole world ( Rev. 12:9), as people by nature are in fact children of the devil ( Acts 13:10).
Gal. 1:11,12. The gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1).
The Word of God is God ( John 1:1) and the scriptural references we use serve as confirmation that it is not us that speak, but the Spirit of our Father that speaketh in us ( 2 Samuel 23:2; Matthew 10:20; Acts 4:8; 6:10).
Narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).
Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 11:11
After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him."
Matthew 27:52
The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised
Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been
Isaiah 54:1 Sing, O BARREN, thou that didst not bear, break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not TRAVAIL WITH CHILD: for more are the children of the DESOLATE ( Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:17) than the children of the married wife (Christ's bride, the virgin) saith the Lord (saith the WORD).
Isaiah 53:11 He (Christ) shall she the TRAVAIL of his BODY ( 1 Corinthians 12:27), and shall be satisfied: BY HIS KNOWLEDGE shall my (the Father's) righteous servant JUSTIFY MANY; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Micah 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a WOMAN IN TRAVAIL: for now thou shall go forth out of the city, and thou shall dwell in the field (like a beast), and thou shall even go to Babylon ( Revelation 18:4); THERE SHALL THOU BE DELIVERED; there shall the Lord redeem thee from the hand of your enemy (death).
God Bless You!
The following are the fundamental rules of Bible study that the Bible lays down:
> Christ is the author of the whole Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14
> the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit 2 Peter 1:21
> Christ spoke in parables (earthly stories with a spiritual meaning). But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mark 4:34
> We compare spiritual with spiritual. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13
The historical-grammatical method of interpretation employed by the churches seeks to discover the writer's intended meaning, customs of the times, and the writer's intended audience and thus fails to recognize that God is the author and that the Bible is written for us today.
Moreover, the method of Bible interpretation employed by the churches fails to recognize that as we approach the end of the world, and the coming of the bridegroom, God is unsealing truths that have been kept sealed until the time of the end ( Daniel 12:9-10). This is spoken of in the Bible as a vision that will speak at the end and not lie ( Habakkuk 2:2-3).
God ultimately must lead us into truth as we apply these principles and pray for understanding with a view to being obedient to His Word.
From what we do now in the scriptures; he was a man who pleased God and "was not"; he was the first man to be translated to heaven; then Elijah later on. Since it appears Elijah is one of the 2 last prophets then it is clear that he has NOT received as yet a resurrection body. If the principle of Heb. 9:27 holds forth; then the same would be said of Elijah; and hence these would be the final 2 prophets. This is controversial; but bolstered by the fact that Christ was said to be the first of the firstfruits; ( 1 Cor. 15:23) which was followed apparently by a resurrection of some of the saints from the grave at that point ( Matthew 27:53). The Rapture is the next phase along with the Resurrection of all the church age saints (it appears that perhaps the rest of the O.T. saints are resurrected later on in the Tribulation when we look at Daniel 12:2.
What we do understand is how to be a man after God's own heart and how that qualifies us for the Rapture and to escape all things to come; as well as the multihued of ten thousand times ten thousand angels also bolstered by Revelation 5:11. There are other texts quoted in scripture that we don't have copies of; even with the sermon on Mars hill by Paul as well as his comment to the Cretians being greedy and gluttonous came from secular writers (not a pleasant message to hear is true; no doubt). Scripture as a whole is intertwined with numerous cross references (a Dake's bible has over 100,000!) Some of these of course are questionable but in scripture it is clear that "thus saith the Lord" means certain things indeed happened.
Today; we seem to think little on the next generation; hence kids have found that there isn't much value in their existence. With so many cut off before birth it is no wonder that kids would feel unvalued today and with such poor parenting skills undisciplined themselves. Hosea 4:6 indicates that because of a lack of knowledge people are perishing. Life is as a vapor as several scriptures indicate ( James 4:14). Not only are things accelerated today ( Daniel 12:4) but as I said in the last piece the value of everything has diminished. There will be no suffering loss; I assure you for cell phones; computers and other high tech entertainment sources NOT being present in heaven. We need to be careful in earthly treasures as well (See Luke 16:11); such behaviors show what is really in our hearts as to our conduct in this world.
In light of these facts; do we consider how great it is that we are saved from having to be in an unregenerate state for all eternity? Isaiah 66:4 describes how God "chooses their delusions" and later on at the end of that chapter a vivid description of hell is given. Phillipians 1:21 states that Paul said "to live is Christ; to die is gain." and other verses show that it is better to be in the house of mourning rather than mindless happiness ( Ecclesiastes 7:2).
In light of all this; we do well to see how we approach the House of Worship but also how we live out the rest of the week. It is sad today how many people insist on having beepers and other cell phone distractions interrupt the services. Personally; I feel a need to have a cell phone only in case my elderly parents have an emergency at home. That was the original use of "beepers". For every moment here on earth there are eternal ramifications; we need to focus on working while it is yet day ( John 9:4). As for Christ it is also for us in that respect our time to serve here is short and we need to focus on the Great Commission.
The following are the fundamental rules of Bible study that the Bible lays down:
> Christ is the author of the whole Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14
> the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit 2 Peter 1:21
> Christ spoke in parables (earthly stories with a spiritual meaning). But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mark 4:34
> We compare spiritual with spiritual. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13
The historical-grammatical method of interpretation employed by the churches seeks to discover the writer's intended meaning, customs of the times, and the writer's intended audience and thus fails to recognize that God is the author and that the Bible is written for us today.
Moreover, the method of Bible interpretation employed by the churches fails to recognize that as we approach the end of the world, and the coming of the bridegroom, God is unsealing truths that have been kept sealed until the time of the end ( Daniel 12:9-10). This is spoken of in the Bible as a vision that will speak at the end and not lie ( Habakkuk 2:2-3).
God ultimately must lead us into truth as we apply these principles and pray for understanding with a view to being obedient to His Word.
One general rule that I believe needs to be practiced is to take any scripture as literally and specifically as possible unless otherwise indicated (such as overt symbolism which is usually defined within the passage as such and the meaning intended).
John 7:38 about "rivers of living water" would be such an example. Ezekiel 47; however gives no indication of the need to make the "fresh water" and the very literal descriptions within the text as being anything but an actual event. In other words; it SHOULDN'T be a cross reference to the John 7:38 verse. We can see even currently fresh water that comes from underground sources that is infiltrating into the Dead Sea; just as we can see the desert starting to bloom as described in Isaiah 35:1. If that verse is taken literally the other should be as well.
There are other things such as 1 Peter 2:9 (cross referenced with Deut. 14:2) that are describing in context the church in the same light as God was delineating His chosen people within the nation of Israel. In both cases there is a REMNANT who are truly called and chosen. Romans 10 describes how we are grafted in and there is no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile; however the very next chapter shows how eventually the veil is lifted and the blindness of the Jews will change ( Romans 11:25). Isaiah shows how eventually the Gentiles will be blessed; and Zechariah shows how the nation will have to be broken enough to finally recognize their Messiah. The problem in all the cases I've mentioned so far is not the validity of a parallel passage existing but the application of it.
There certainly are cases where things are referred to as cross references when they are really not. Daniel 12:4 is not really tied into any other specific scripture; but in this case the application can be exaggerated especially when other verses that sound similar are referring to another historic event. Nahum 3 is case in point.
In Revelation 3:5, John gives an exhortation to the church. He says, "He that overcomes, and that's a Present Participle.
To the one who (is) overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will (not) blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
We are given references to the Old Testament that tell us there's more than one book. ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, 7-10, Psalm 69:28)
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say (I will not) blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
So, our names are entered into the Lamb"s book of life the moment we receive Christ. He will never blot out a believers name from that book. That's how permanent our salvation is. He will never blot our names out of His book!
We see a lack of wisdom of any ssort these days as we continue to increase in knowledge exponentially (shades of Daniel 12:4). In one sense; we cannot rely on our own understanding ( Proverbs 3:5-6) but on God alone. There are certain principles whether of law; crops; finances or other things which all those under the sun are embarked in to one degree or another with whatever freedoms God allows. We certainly cannot operate against human wisdom or our conscience when we don't do something we know we are supposed to do ( James 4:17). As with anything else there are extremes we should try to avoid. Christ; for instance when He was on earth told those He sent forth two by two not to bring much along with them ( Mark 6:8); but later once He was preparing for His departure the instruction changed ( Luke 22:36). This included money; clothes and a weapon for protection from thieves. We have two major things that we need to avoid; the first being seeking things for ourselves outside the will of God or trying to "help God" by speeding up the process. Having the understanding that everything belongs to God and that we take nothing into this world and cannot take anything out helps a great deal ( 1 Timothy 6:7). The second thing is not laying down our life for the Lord. At the extreme this would be martyrdom; but everyday tests where we choose to serve others above our own desires we "die a little" bit at a time as we carry our cross daily. Things like marriages of course can be a major factor and in some cases individuals who can remain chaste can be in unique advantages for unfettered service toward the Lord. Again; as with anything else I have seen more than enough Godly Christian marriages where more than sufficient attention is paid to the wife and children along with a generous amount of time dedicated to corporate worship; prayer; evangelism and small group studies. Being equally yoked of course works this out best.
This is not a salvation issue and shouldn't cause divisions within the body, but yes, I believe you are interpreting the Bible correctly. In my opinion theree is much stronger Biblical support for this compared to the idea of Christians going direct to heaven as they die. Someone can simply make a list and there are probably more than double the amount of verses supporting that someone will wait in sleep for Jesus to return than to go to heaven immediately. It also makes more logical sense as it would seem weird for Christians to go to heaven and skip judgment when it says everyone will be judged, and everyone in this case means everyone- and it also says it will happen on the same day: the day of judgment, which wouldn't exactly happen if people periodically went to heaven randomly. It would not make as much logical sense if Christians went to heaven only to return back to earth in the grave to rise, then meet Jesus, then go back to heaven a 2nd time. Whereas, the alternative seems to both fit scripture and be more logical too.
John 5:28-29
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
Daniel 12:2
1 Corinthians 15:6
1 Corinthians 15:51
etc
The support for the other perspective is the thief on the cross through an assumption that this is a template for all of mankind to follow and no exceptions and that paradise is the same is heaven. The second is that when Paul said he'd rather be away from his body and with the Lord that one assumes his preference means reality for all, and assumes that him wanting to be with the Lord means there's no waiting period. Of course when someone sleeps in death it likely won't seem like waiting, just like when we sleep on earth we usually aren't conscious a full 8 hours waiting to wake up. God bless.
That's the way I have it as well.
On the Matthew 24:31-46 I think I was responding to Gigi.
Her quote;
By GiGi
The most consistent view in the church over the centuries was that the rapture happens on the Last Day, as Jesus said in Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:29-31. Even Daniel was told that he would arise on the Last Day in Daniel 12:13. This is why I believe that Jesus comes back only once again and will gather believers to Himself on the Last Day.
End quote.
My point was that Matthew 24 was not about the rapture.
Those taken away are gathered for judgment.
She's rapturing the wrong group!
Some say that the tribulation is a time of testing for God's people. Who and what is being tested? God's grip?
We must consider these verses. John 10:28-29.
I John 4:4.
Matthew 28:20.
John 14:18-20.
Ephesians 3:30.
Jude 1:24-25.
Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
So it's obvious God is not testing a spirit filled vessel.
TRIBULATION.
This is mentioned in Daniel 12 where a specific time period is mentioned and Jesus confirms it in Matthew 24:15-21. This tribulation is to come upon the whole world. This is not the persecution ( By the world ) promised to the Church in Matthew 5:10 and other places.
There's a huge difference between persecution by the world and tribulation ( UPON ) the world.
Millennium.
Where does Christ thousand years reign here on earth fit in their theology?
My reason for asking is they are split in this view.
If you say the rapture comes after the tribulation and you use Matthew 24 to authenticate that, When is the thousand years reign of Christ here on earth?
Why would you rapture people out of the Millennium?
Some hold the view the Millennium has already begun and the Church will usher in the Millennium by preaching the Gospel.
They say there is no rapture.
Continue this weekend.
God bless.
You probably don't need these admonitions. That is a hard saying; how God is impartial. He will bless those who bless Him; and curse those who curse Him. It seems you have a great desire for the Word; and having a husband in the faith; hopefully you are growing as well in the role God has given you in this life. It is the fact that those who are hundredfold that have the greatest rewards is simply God's character being reflected; as well as gaining more "interest" as it were because of heavenly rewards. He who sows in tears will reap in joy. ( Psalm 126:5-6). It goes against the flesh to invest time and energy and finances in ministry for the Lord but we are told that we MUST believe that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ( Heb. 11:6). These crowns of course extend to those who patiently hope and wait for His coming; those in leadership over the church (held to a higher standard); a special one for martyrs; and several other designations. We may cast our crowns at His feet but as adopted children we have eternal promises and positions. It is hard to say in eternity as compared to the Millennium the differences in rulership; etc. Obviously it is better to be a doorkeeper in the house of God than to be lost and cast out.
It is not taught today how some will make it through the Bema suffering loss getting in as through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15). Revelation 3:11 is not taught much either. One of my frequent comments on that is that if I fail I'd better be honored to see someone else exalted due to my lack of service. God will use anyone as a method of spreading salt and light; some sowing others reaping the benefits.
Sad truth today is that there are few who can discern those who are shining as the stars among the masses of confessing Christians ( Daniel 12:3 associated with leading many to righteousness).
Agape; Rich P
Part 4.
In Revelation 19:17-21 you see the parallel verse " Where the eagles gather as mentioned in
Matthew 24:28.
No mention of the removal of saints. If the saints were raptured and everyone else cast into hell and this is the last day on earth as you presented Who's going to populate the Millennium?
In Revelation 20 you see the Millennium reign of Christ and the great white throne judgment.
Let's use Daniel 12:13 you provided to see who the elect is in these scriptures.
Daniel 12:1-2 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for THE CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Who's Daniels people? Israel.
Who's gathered from the four corners of the earth? Israel.
Isaiah 11:9-12.
Ezekiel 34:11-14.
Daniel is not talking about the Church.
The tribulation will drive Israel to their Messiah.
Hosea 5:15. I will go and return to my place, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, AND SEEK MY FACE: IN THEIR AFFLICTION THEY WILL SEEK ME EARLY.
Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.
This means when they behold him as a nation.
God bless.
Part 3.
Again I'm not saying this researching is bad but when you build your theology off historical research you will find that there is arguments for both sides and often for several sides on every topic.
It's not the way we're prompted to study the Bible.
There's a danger you will fall in the hands of doctrines of men and traditions.
There is more to teaching the Bible than reading scripture and giving a perspective that you adopted from researching history throughout the church age because it don't cause you to understand scripture!!
It hinders spiritual growth and causes one to have a carnal approach in their display of doctrine and misuse of scripture no matter how long they study this way.
When or if one research history for "whatever" concerning doctrine, revelation of truth is always given by the Holyspirit not by the scribe.
So be sure and use convincing scriptures when you go into a debate or rebuttal saying ones view is not supported by scripture.
This is not about whether you are right or wrong because even when you are right about a matter you authenticate it by what you "believe" was taught by the early church as your reasoning. That doesn't always seal the deal when your explanation and rebuttal doesn't go into debth using scripture. It's just argumentive.
With that being said let's look into the scriptures you provided supporting the rapture coming at the second coming.
Luke 21:27.
Matthew 24:29-31.
Daniel 12:13.
When dealing with Luke and Matthew "Notice who's being removed" In Matthew 24:37-39 it says "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Who's eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
AND KNEW NOT UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME, AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY?
This speaks of judgment, it's not the rapture of the Church.
This contradicts
1 Thessalonians 5:2-9.
see part 4.
Part 1.
You stated.
Hello Patrick, What you are identifying is "dispensationalism", and yes, IT HAS NOT BEEN TAUGHT THROUGHOUT CHURCH HISTORY. (You can search ONLINE) on the subject. You can find on the site testallthingsDOTcom articles concerning this viewpoint that introduced the pre-tribulation rapture into Christian thought in the 1800's by Irwin and Darby in Ireland. Irwin learned of it from the writings of a Jesuit priest from Spain.
Then you stated on a separate post.
IT IS TRUE THAT THERE WERE SOME IN THE EARLY CHURCH WHO BELIEVED IN A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE.
The most consistent view in the church over the centuries was that the rapture happens on the Last Day,
( You seem to contradict yourself in your rebuttal.)
Then you went on to say;
" as Jesus said in Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:29-31. Even Daniel was told that he would arise on the Last Day in Daniel 12:13." Let's set that aside for now.
I believe scripture supports this and the early Church taught this throughout history; "as you seem to acknowledge to some degree."
Where part of the issue is during the reformation their wasn't much focus on eschatology. Their focus was on Justification. "And by the way they done a great job on that,"
But some accused the jews for the crucifixion even though Christ said for this purpose he came into the world.
Here's the issue.
There's some value in areas to research what the church believed throughout the centuries but when you leave off from studying the Bible and you use history to settle a debate you don't fall on solid ground.
That may work in our academic school system on history but not so well when studying the Bible, Especially when you have the same bible they had in your midst and the Holyspirit doing the teaching.
This method doesn't qualify one as a teacher but an historian.
Martin Luther protested for Justification by faith in the early 1500's. before then what was widely taught? Is it good to hold those diverse views?
c part 2.
It is true that there were some in the early church who believed in a pre-tribulation rapture. The most consistent view in the church over the centuries was that the rapture happens on the Last Day, as Jesus said in Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:29-31. Even Daniel was told that he would arise on the Last Day in Daniel 12:13. This is why I believe that Jesus comes back only once again and will gather believers to Himself on the Last Day.
Polycarp and Irenaeus may have spoken in regards to a pre-trib rapture, but the modern view in dispensationalism as promoted by Darby and Scofield are not identical to what Polycarp and Irenaeus taught. The interpretation of Darby is what is promoted and believed by many believers today. His theory began in the 1800's.
The Bible says we will sleep until Jesus returns in the following verses and possibly more:
1 Cor 15:18-20
1 Thess 4:13-18
Job 14:12
Daniel 12:2
This scripture debunks what the other people are saying about people NOT sleeping to await Jesus. I believe what God says over what man says. Don't believe what I say either, but just look at God's truth and decide. But when I read these verses and pray about it its 100% clear what it means to me.
Those claiming immediate heaven may require ignoring these 4 verses and choosing only 2 scriptures and interpret them too broadly: (1) the one where Paul says he'd "rather" be with the Lord. Paul only states his preference. I prefer to be with the Lord too, but that doesn't automatically mean 100% of all people forever will skip judgement and be in heaven immediately. And (2) the verse about Jesus telling the criminal on this day he'll be in paradise doesn't automatically mean 100% of all people will have this, and doesn't invalidate the other 4 verses where it clearly says we'll "sleep" awaiting Jesus, and paradise is a different word than heaven and some think it might even be a place of waiting.
Suggest just following the scriptures and praying for wisdom and understanding rather than believing any unscriptural opinions. God bless.
The same topic is also discussed here and probably other places too:
Link
I don't argue that the 24 elders are represantatives of both OT and NT time
a. May Daniel 12:1 refer only to the living Jews at that time and not the ones that died before Christ(?)
B The original text doesn't make things clearer that the English text
c. I agree with you that those with the white garments are lukerwarm christians that didn't make it in the rapture (the 5 unwise virgins), but not only these, they are also people that listened to the angel's preaching and didn't accept the mark of the beast and were consequently slaughtered. Yes, rapture is a reward, so lukermarm christians will have a second chance to make it into eternal life, but it would be extremely hard to withstand the great tribulation. Often a thing is ignored. If the belief that the Holly Spirit is who restrains the antichrist is right, and the HS goes together with the church in Heaven, that means that the gospel as we know it now will not be valid. There will not be any more new birth, nor Baptism in the Spirit, nor sanctification by the Spirit, nor any kind of help from God, a whole new situation for those who stay behind. Salvation will now be aquired by choosing sides, together or against the antichrist, accepting or not accepting the mark. So, can we claim that salvation can be lost, since many that will be left behind will eventually accept the mark?
d. 1 Cor 3:15 about those escaping destruction as through fire is something to be considered before the rapture. The reward will now be rule over nations during the millenium. As it is obvious that since the Spirit goes up, obedience to God's Laws is almost impossible, one escaping from his passions, sinful conditions, will be almost impossible too. Serving God will be also impossible, anything that we consider that increases our wage in Heaven now will be removed. So martyrdom is now the only way to get a reward.
e. Can Hebrews 9:27 be appilied to people like Lazarus who was resurrected by Jesus?. He eventually died twice.
The theme of "was; is and is to come" is seen in both Revelation 1:8 and 4:8. With the book of Revelation talking about the "Alpha and Omega" and describing the glorified Christ where John fell at His feet as though dead (1:17); not to mention the theme of His opening the seal judgments; being the sole victor at Armageddon; and ruling on earth it is inconceivable that some have actually suggested that Christ ISN'T the main theme of the whole book of Revelation.
The fate of every individual; whether taking the mark of the Beast or not; and of all who are saved or lost; what their judgments will be; and the absolute determination of the time and manner of judgments is determined by the Godhead alone; specifically the Father and Son. Only those who have the Spirit are those "wise who will understand". ( Daniel 12:10; to be read in context with the rest of the verse). God will indeed use the Tribulation to sanctify some; to do a quick work on the earth. But the unregenerate despite whatever facts that they have at their disposal curse God; and rebel against Him whether during the worst trial the world has ever seen ( Mark 13:19); as well as after the descendants of the survivors of the Tribulation into the Millennium who have the BEST world imaginable who follow Satan in the last rebellion.
The wicked truly will think they are doing God a favor in killing true believers ( John 16:2). We have seen these things before in history with martyrdom; but never at the scale and madness of the Tribulation. We need to see the intensity of that time as part of the great final harvest; a purification to finally wake up the nation of Israel (the one third who come to faith in Zech. 13:9) as well as bring in those of an uncountable number who hear the message of the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9-17). The consummation of the ages brings His church back to rule and reign with Christ and then final judgment of the wicked. Then comes a sinless new heaven & earth.
here in revelation 22:11 it says let him holy or unjust ect...still!
earl this suggests after this lifetime and after judgment.
( he that is unjust, let him be unjust "still:" and he which is filthy, let him be filthy... "still:"... and he that is righteous, let him be righteous... "still":... and he that is holy, let him be holy "...still".)
revelation 22:14-15 verifies that!
" blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,...and may enter in through the gates into the city.....
"for without" are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
"after" this life some will remain righteousness that will enter in through the gates into the city.
and there are some who will remain unjust " the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." who will be without the city.
and revelation 21:8 tells us where they're going!
"but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
also: revelation 20:13-15 states "and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." this suggests after this life!!
daniel spoke of this in daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
this also suggests 2 groups after this life in an everlasting condition! ( unjust still and righteous still.)
jesus makes reference to 2 groups, 2 destinations after this life in
matthew 25:41-46.
and it's everlasting not a refining fire!!
come on earl let's humble ourselves and not get in the way of this great truth.
Daniel 12:2
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:18-20
Matthew 9:24
Hello, the Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying people get to skip this. There's no verse saying that all people go to heaven instantly, only to later travel back to earth into your body, then meet Jesus in the air, then to only go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven. It's not scriptural or logical and seems to require misinterpreting the following 2 verses, by cherry picking and broadly interpreting it as if it automatically represents all people and all circumstances.
"absent with body present with Lord" isn't in the Bible. That phrase has been changed from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. Paul was only stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, these are only 2 verses requiring creative interpretation, but at least 5 verses say we'll be sleeping are straightforward. Which is true? Bible says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scripture either.
.....Unless ya receive the KINGDOM of God as a lil Child you will in NO wise enter there in....Plz note the Kingdom of God does not come till the woman ( the world ) the bride births the Child the H.G...The Child of Promise....Yes indeed We are gonna see ALL men in travail and birth pains....Simply b/c of the Sower and his seed the contents of that Book...The New Covenant in his blood....The WORDS of WONDER that Daniel saw in Daniel 12:6 KJV. The Book ...Men and Woman are gonna birth a baby Christ which is the H.G..... Isaiah 49:23 kjv...Kings shall be your nursing Fathers and their Queens your nursing mothers etc...We are gonna have a baby Christ which is the H.G. As that which is BORN of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. Emanuel....Ya gotta realize that the Sower of the good seed is the Bridegroom thus the wheat is the H.G. a Baby Christ...The Kingdom....Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child...You will in no wise enter there in....This is how we know without a doubt that Jesus is truly God the Son....He reproduces after the God kind Spirits the H.G.is God....When he breathe on them he was reproducing very God with his breath which was his WORDS his Seeds....Thats y he told them b/c i have spoken these words sorrows have filled your hearts....Then he tells them of a Woman in travail and birth pains... John 16 ...B/C of his words/seeds but the Child didn't come till 50 day later at Pentacost th H.G. was born in them the Child of Promise...Behold the Promise.
The REVEALING of Christ was the 3 1/2 years he was IN FLESH on the EARTH.
Revelation 1:1 ...the REVELATION (revealing) of Jesus Christ ....reveals Christ and those 3 1/2 years; fulfilling the coming of the Kingdom of God.
The seven seals are already open, the seventh seal at Pentecost. All the answers are in the scriptures of prophecy.
Daniel 12:7 An I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand, and his left hand unto heaven, and swear by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time (one year), times (2 Years) and a half 1/2 year (1+2+1/2=3 1/2 years: prophecy; Christ in flesh); when he shall accomplish to SCATTER THE POWER of the holy people (his priests) ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FINISHED.
John 19:30 And when Jesus had therefore received the vinegar ( Psalms 69:21), he said, IT IS FINISHED (prophecy fulfilled), and bowed his head, and gave up the ghost (the Spirit of his Father).
God Bless You.
Daniel 12:11 is giving what is to take place the middle of the 70rh week of Daniel known as the Great Tribulation.
Jesus this as well in Mat 24:14-15. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) This is when the antichrist set up a Idol to be worshipped in the temple.
Let us know if this helps
God bless
Six seals (of the BOOK of life) were all opened, beginning with Christ ministry in the flesh and ending with his death and resurrection.
Between the sixth seal ( Revelation 6:12-17 Christ's death and resurrection) and the seventh seal ( Revelation 8:1 pentecost) there was silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; 45 days.
No activity (silence) of the Holy Ghost, for 45 days, from resurrection to pentecost.
The seventh seal was open at pentecost with the out pouring of the Holy Ghost.
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be take away, and the abomination that maketh desolate BE SET UP, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
42 months; three and a half years, Christ's ministry in the flesh.
Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth (for the seventh seal), and cometh to the one thousand three hundred five and thirty days.
1335 minus 1290 equals 45 days: passover till feast of the first fruits ..... Pentecost .....Christ second coming and minstry as the Holy Ghost.
May God give us eyes to see and ears to hear.
God Bless you.
Psalm 49:6-15; Psalm 116:15; Daniel 12:1-3; John 11:19-26; Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:12-58; Revelation 21:4.