Discuss Acts 14 Page 2

Yes, Matthew 2:2, Luke 23:51, John 4:22, John 8:31, John 11:45, Acts 14:1, Acts 17:1-4, Acts 21:20, Acts 22:12, Paul himself was,is Acts 26:4, Revelation 7:5,

John 3:15-21, Matthew 25:31-46,

Hey Jamie,

My understanding is, this is the deception of deceptions and will cause the great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Part of this deception is that the great tribulation and the wrath of God are taught as being the same thing. We must understand the wrath of God comes after the second coming of Jesus not before. Matthew 24:29-31 Mark 13:24-27.

It developed in the 17th Century, and it quickly led to an understanding that the rapture of the church would be an event separate from and before the second coming of Christ. It was made popular by John Darby, and he is thought by many to be the originator but not. C.I. Scofield, with the study bible with footnotes, helped promote this doctrine of man. It started as pre-tribulation and still mostly believed in.

We as humans sometimes look for the easy way out, and many preachers oblige to fill the money plate that makes merchandise of people, 2 Peter 2:3. Scripture does not say we will be spared tribulation it says the opposite, Acts 14:22 John 16:33. It is debated that although all Christians go through some tribulation, there is yet a great tribulation to come those true believers will not have to undergo. So, who are these, Revelation 7:13-14 Revelation 20:4

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The mark and saving our physical life is the temptation, that so many don't believe they will be here to face, that is the great deception. Keep from does not mean we will be spared from being killed it means to spiritually guard (watch), keep intact, Hebrews 3:6. The believers in Jesus in the past were not spared being beheaded, burnt on a stake, fed to the lions, why should we.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Billy. In the early Church, after Christ's death & resurrection, the apostles appointed managers of God's people. Elders & deacons were appointed (e.g. Acts 14:23; 1 Timothy 3:10). Elders were to teach & guide Christ's Church according to the Word, for they must give account before God in their very serious & responsible position ( Hebrews 13:17). And of course, those blessed with pastoral (shepherding), teaching, evangelism, etc. endowments, also helped in the blessing & spiritual growth of the Church & propagation of the Gospel.

Unfortunately, many Fellowships today appoint committees & councils for managing Church affairs. Admittedly, Church administration is much more complex now than was encountered in the fledgeling Church, but returning back to the simple setup as given, is preferable. Indeed, the elders are tasked to oversee & manage Church affairs & I would say that all matters, even suggestions from the deacons, should be given due consideration & prayerful response. If the eldership refuses to listen to those expressing concern or giving suggestions, then there would be a fault in their understanding of being God's servants. The elders should not be overlords ( 1 Peter 5:1-4), rather lead by example, being willing & ever ready to serve the Church, knowing that they too are brethren with Christ's flock & are answerable to their Chief Shepherd.

What can you do about the problem in the Church? Not much, if this special committee refuses to listen to needs & suggestions. If it has been formerly put to them on paper & you cover their important position & their response in prayer, then you will need to leave the matter in the Lord's Hands. Jesus said that He will build His Church - He has the last word, not the committee.

Yes, Revelation 7, Acts 21:20, 1 John 5:13, Acts 14:1, 2 Chronicles 20:20, here are a few scriptures, hopefully these are helpful.

Hey Rawlie,

Like Mishael said there are many opinions on this and your question is there any scriptural support for pre-tribulation I would have to say no. God has not promised us to be spared tribulation, it is pretty much the opposite, John 16:33 Acts 14:22 2 Thessalonians 1:4. The Great tribulation and the wrath of God is two different things. God will spare us his wrath, 1 Thessalonians 5:9 His wrath will be on the unrighteous, Romans 1:18.

People looking to be raptured and taken to heaven before the beast shows up and the persecution worldwide starts will not be prepared and this may cause the great falling away. Some have taken the seventh week from Daniel and other scriptures to paint a beautiful picture that is not scriptural. Millions of dollars from movies, books, tv preachers have been made on this theory that started in the 1700s

Jesus told us in Matthew 24:29-31 Mark 13:24-27 it will be after the tribulation. There is more but this should answer your question, if we are living when it starts, we will go through it, Matthew 10:22. We must do what Jesus told the disciples when they asked him about the end. The first thing He said was Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

There will be a great temptation coming, and we must be strong in our faith in His word, even unto death, because we have this promise. Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

God bless,

RLW

I will comment on versus 19-21; we are warned by the Apostle Paul in these versus that if Christians live an ungodly lifestyle, they will not inherit the kingdom of God. In order to understand the warning we must first understand the difference between entering the first dispensation of the kingdom of God, and inheriting the second dispensation of the kingdom of God. All Christians, upon being born again enter the kingdom of God, as in John 3:5 & Colossians 1:13 The Lord Jesus taught during this first dispensation of the kingdom of God, it is within the heart of all believers. Luke 17:20-21 We got into the kingdom of God by unconditional promises, through faith without works, as part of the foundation that Christ Jesus laid. Yet when we speak about inheriting the kingdom, we cannot talk about this first dispensation of the kingdom of God at all, seeing the word used here is inheriting, meaning, the Apostle Paul is referring unto the second dispensation of the kingdom of God, known as the millennial kingdom. Not all Christians will make it into this kingdom, although they will all go to heaven, yet to make it into the kingdom of heaven, it is not a free gift, rather you must earn entrance by meeting conditional promises, as in Matthew 7:21 and as in Acts 14:22 and as in Matthew 3:5 and Matthew 3:10 All of which speak of entering the millennial kingdom of heaven by faith with works, as you meet the conditions spoken of in those chapter versus. On the other hand, if a Christian lives an immoral lifestyle, as mentioned here in these seventeen sins, he is denied entrance into the millennial kingdom of God, and will remain in heaven until the thousand year kingdom is over.

Hi Alex N. In your response to conditional promises, you wrote about the kingdom of God, as though all Christians already have this in them, I should clarify this statement therefore to you, the first dispensation of the kingdom of heaven is inwardly, it lasts for 2,000 years, from the time the Lord Jesus died until he returns, according to the Lord Jesus in Luke 17:20-21 all Christians have the kingdom of God in their heart, this is also taught in John 3:5, all Christians enter the kingdom of God when they are born again, The Apostle Paul affirms this truth in Colossians 1:13, however, this is not what I was speaking about in conditional promises, I spoke about the millennial kingdom of God, which has not happened yet, no Christian has entered this yet, all scriptures place conditions upon entering that kingdom of God. I will say this, we made it into the first dispensation of the kingdom by faith without works, but to make it into the millennial kingdom, it is by faith with works. Please read Matthew 7:21 only if a Christian does the will of God can he make it in, this is a condition attached to making it in the kingdom. Read Matthew 25:14-30 unless you used your talents you cannot make it into the joy of the Lord, being the millennial kingdom, again a conditional promise to get it, or read Acts 14:22 as we must suffer much tribulation in order to make it into the kingdom, another conditional attached to making it into the millennial kingdom of heaven. Again read the warnings of why Christians will not make it into that millennial kingdom in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 & Galatians 5:19-21 & Ephesians 5:3-5 as a result of living a godless lifestyle, you lose your inheritance of entering into the millennial kingdom of God, in order to rule and reign for a thousand years. As concerning your topic of the man child teaching us all things, that prophecy is for the coming of Elijah in Malachi 4:5-6 it is not the ministry of the man child. I hope this explains conditional promises.

I will speak of versus 19-21;

Here the apostle Paul gives warning unto all Christians concerning the millennial kingdom, he warns if Christians live an ungodly lifestyle of immorality in these seventeen sins or the like, they cannot inherit the kingdom of God. This warning is specifically speaking about not inheriting a kingdom, it is not speaking of Christians who live immoral lifestyles cannot go to heaven. The Kingdom of God is based upon conditional promises, Christians must qualify in order for them to make it into the millennial kingdom of God, otherwise they will remain in heaven until the thousand year kingdom has expired before being resurrected. The Apostle Paul gives this same warning in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Ephesians 5:3-5 Even the Lord Jesus taught conditional promises must be met before a Christian is counted worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 7:21 The Lord Jesus taught if we bury our pounds we are denied entrance into the Millennial kingdom of Christ, as we must meet the conditions to qualify us. Luke 19:12-27 Again, the Apostle Paul taught conditional promises are required to make it into the millennial kingdom, as we must through much tribulation enter that kingdom of God. Acts 14:22

Hello Gwen. In Ephesians 4:11-13, the Apostle Paul shows us how the Church, Christ's Body, would be comprised - for the building up of His Church. So, in this respect, both men & women can be so equipped by Christ's Spirit to be used of Him. However, in respect to "apostles & prophets", we can keep in mind that the apostolic line ended with the death of the last apostle (John), & the prophetic word (i.e. the true Word from God about future events) also ended at the Book of the Revelation. But the other appointments within the Church still go on (evangelists, pastors & teachers) & will do so till Jesus comes for His Church.

However, maybe you're thinking of women being pastors, as in leading the congregation & teaching from the Word. Then the Apostle Paul speaks again, to Pastor Timothy this time, in 1 Timothy 2:11-13, that as much as women too can teach from the Word, they are to refrain from doing so when in the Church. The word "pastor" means 'shepherd'. Certainly, women can shepherd others in their Christian walk, as there can be many 'pastors' in the Church (men & women). However, today, that word, 'Pastor', is generally applied to a 'Shepherd cum Teacher cum Preacher' when this appointment wouldn't be permissible for women. That is why Elders were appointed in every Church ( Acts 14:23), & they alone were given charge of the teaching, leadership & oversight of their congregations. Today, we see a number of congregations that have women taking charge of them & teaching from the pulpit. I can only refer to the Scriptures in response - they & the Churches will have to give account to God.

Yes Jewell. That is exactly what 1 Timothy 2:12 is saying. The Apostle Paul in other letters spoke about the order of creation, just as he referred to here in verse 13. In 1 Corinthians 11:2,3,8,9 and Ephesians 5:23, Paul gives those details again to the Corinthian & Ephesian Churches.

The reason for giving this order, was not that Paul had something against women or of their abilities in teaching & using their other gifts & talents, but that within Church worship, before God & His angels, the prescribed order of ministry must be observed. And this he instructed young Timothy, who was left in charge of the ministry in Ephesus & generally in Asia Minor. As capable as women may be in teaching, within the Church, the task of administering, leading & teaching from the Word was incumbent upon the brothers. Elders who were ordained in every Church ( Acts 14:23) were men & they also had been enabled by God to teach & lead the flock of God.

Hello Jimmy. As we read in Ephesians 4:11, the ministry of the pastor falls in the same category with the others mentioned in that verse - i.e. each position filling their God-given enabling & responsibility for the benefit of the Church (the Body of Christ). In Greek, 'pastor' means shepherd, which implies that their work would be similar to that of a shepherd with his sheep: he guides, provides, protects, disciplines. Today, the pastoral position in many Fellowships usually involves the bulk of preaching; as well as the term has been altered from its original meaning. The Elder was appointed to lead the Assembly of believers & the only ones that have been authorized to teach God's Word, for learning, encouragement, or warning ( Acts 14:21,22; James 5:14; 1 Peter 5:1-4; 1 Timothy 3:1-7 (where bishop is the same as elder)). So, the pastor's position was to focus on the care of the 'sheep' in his charge.

Amen

Vickie,

If the end starts in our lifetime the teachings of the rapture of the Church to heaven, will have many not prepared for what is coming. ( Daniel 12:1) ( Matthew 24:29-31) ( Mark 13:24-27) tell us after the tribulation Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect, the second coming, not the third.

The great tribulation is confused with the wrath of God. We will be spared the wrath of God but we are not told we will be spared tribulation, ( Acts 14:22) ( Romans 8:35) (2 Thessalonian 1:4). When the end starts and the things that scripture tells us that is coming, I feel many that trust in this teaching will lose their faith because they are still here.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

All the saints before, and what they had to endure, burning at the stake, crucifixion, beheadings, fed to lions, and more. Are we better or more worthy than they, to be spared? Do we exalt ourselves above those who came before us? Christians are still today being killed.

1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This verse is said shows we meet Jesus and are taken to heaven. Is anywhere in this verse where our destination is? Does this verse say we go to heaven? How can we assume something that is not written? Does being carried to heaven line up with the other scriptures about Jesus's second coming? Where are the chosen told they will reign, heaven or earth?

Millions of dollars have been made from this theory.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

May we walk and be led by the Holy Spirit of truth.

RLW

Yes, other wise all prophecies of jesus as lord and christ would be null and void.

Is Abrah, the hebrew a direct decent of Jesus Christ Lord?

Hi Liz, I agree that it can be a little confusing as to what to believe in respect of the Rapture, but even after your study (& consideration of the comments here), you will need to come to your own understanding of this great subject, yet remaining open to the Spirit for any further light you receive through study.

Just a couple of things to keep in mind: you will read of 'tribulation' in the Bible, but you need to ascertain whether it is the 'Great Tribulation' that is being spoken of. We will all go through tribulation while living in the world ( John 16:33, Acts 14:22), but the Great Tribulation is different ( Matthew 24:21).

The Great Tribulation is a short period of time where the outpouring of God's Anger is seen & felt & this Anger is against the world of sinners where God causes a great annihilation through various means. You can compare it to the time of the Great Flood or to the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah: all these were specific to God's Anger & Judgement rather than from the usual effects of living in a sinful world & condition. And the righteous were saved from His Anger (i.e. Noah, Lot & families) while the others were destroyed.

As Christians, cleansed & saved by the blood of the Lamb, our judgement against sin has already been accomplished at the Cross. Then ask, 'do we have to once again suffer the judgement of God with other Christ-rejectors?' If so, the work at the Cross hasn't fully accomplished its purpose as we would have to be dealt with twice under God's Hand: once in Mercy (seeking forgiveness & spiritual healing/restoration) & then again without Mercy, in Judgement with the others. Or, is His Church removed before His Terrors against sinners are poured out?. And here I speak of God's Judgement only & not at the revelation of the Anti-Christ, which event is not part of that Judgement (Revelation chapters 6 to 19).

For your consideration & discussion in your online Bible study. Blessings.

Liz, May the Spirit grace you with His wisdom and His understanding.

Acts 14:22 .....that we through MUCH TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God.

It's been 2000 years since Christ preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ( Mark 1:14) under the theory of the seven year tribulation (still waiting) no one would have entered in the kingdom of God.

Revelation 1:9 I John, whom also am your brother, and COMPANION IN TRIBULATION, and in THE KINGDOM...

It appears that John believed he was living during the time of TRIBULATION.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

was the first sin committed by Eve or Adam?

Main outline from Commentary section of this website:

Paul and Barnabas at Iconium. (1-7)

A cripple healed at Lystra, The people would have sacrificed to Paul and Barnabas. (8-18)

Paul stoned at Lystra, The churches visited again. (19-28)

The scripture identify this body we live in as a tent, this body goes back to ground in which it came, our spirit goes to be with the Lord is the way I understand it. And yes you should Know that you have eternal life, If not that would contuary to faith. That's why we have entered into his rest. 1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. Ephesians 1:13-14. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of PROMISE,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22. Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 5:4-6. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Therefore we are always CONFIDENT. knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: If I had to trust in me I couldn't be confident, but God already paid down on his procession and sealed my destiny and he gave me the spirit of promise, and will redeem his purchase. Thats why we can't loose our salvation, it's not in our hands to fumble, it's in God's. To say you can't know is contuary to our faith. God is faithful. And when we are saved it will manifest im our mortal bodies, Romans 8:11. A live branch bare good fruit, We may not be perfect but there is a transformation taking place, and "POSITIONALLY" sanctified. THX

Yes she was, if you mean that she was his only wife as we don't have any record that Adam remarried - and then again, to whom?

Please note that Paul said he would "rather" be present with the Lord. Paul didn't say that in 100% of the cases immediately when a Christian dies that 100% of the time he skips judgment day and immediately goes to heaven. In fact, scripture supports the opposite- that the dead will remain in sleep until Jesus returns then will be caught up in the air then judgment day determines where someone goes. It doesn't make as much logical sense either for people to go to heaven then go back to earth only to make a verse true that the dead will rise and meet Jesus, only to go back to heaven again, while skipping Judgment day altogether that the Bible says will happen. So, when you take all the scriptures in context, it's clear that the dead will be in a mode of sleep which will probably pass like an instant to that person, before they then meet Jesus and are judged accordingly. No one is 'saved' until they are first judged. 1 Thessalonians 4:13, Matthew 12:36, Daniel 12:2 (sleep in dust of earth clearly means sleeping in the grave, before judgment), 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Was eve Adam's first wife

Hi Jordan, 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

what is did

If someone is on a mission to find fault they can usually find it with anything, however, in doing so they often use a lot of false assumptions and mental gymnastics to justify and arrive at what they want to believe. In your example, it's just a false assumption. I assume not motivated by any bias, but in some cases bias causes the misinterpretations intentionally. Someone can hear sound but not discern words and someone can see light or a shape, but not identify what it is. People often form rigid parameters in their mind that don't exist. The Bible doesn't contradict itself, but the person making an argument ends up making false assumptions and contradictory points himself. There's also points of view from different authors- some saw and heard one piece, some another. It doesn't automatically mean it contradicts itself though. Did Judas hang himself or did he fall and his guts spill out? Why not both? A tree branch could have easily broken and resulted in that. People often assume contradictions for whatever they hope to find a contradiction in.

I have no certificates, no decorative documentation in the ministry for God. But what good will a document do my soul? I have no high, nor formal, title: I am simply "Sister Genny". But who can and entitle me, in God gospel? Man's highest certificates, in ministry, is as null, void, powerless and frivolous as his highest title in the same. His highest wisdom in the most that he can teach you, which is the least that you could learn from God. So, if man's highest degree is lower than God's nursery school, where will the man go after he graduated from the highest ordination given by man? Who will be left to teach him, once he graduates? Only God. But what good is it to graduate at man's highest class, if it is less than God's kindergarten; who will you turn to that can teach wisdom that is too high for man: Job 28:12-13 (:27-28); 1 Cor. 2:4-8. No certificate should dare to claim that a person has reached any level in the wisdom of God, for God wisdom is not subjected to human levels; but it is, to the contrary, limitless. If those highly decorated Christians would search the scriptures they will find that God will give them His own wisdom, simply because they nagged Him for it, if for no other reason. Lu 11:8;18:2-8; Jam 1:5. The worst part about it is that, you don't actually have to know God to earn a certificate that serves as evidence that you know about God. You can get a certificate off of the internet from a course that was designed by a minister, you may never know, teaching you about a God you don't have to know in order to earn the certificate. Anyone would rather you meet them before you go around trying to tell people about them: How much more must God want to be known by those who have a certificates concerning Him, but do not know Him? The kingdom of God is not a religious course. . The Kingdom Is True And Living Power. Always obey the epistle's in the new testament, Our teacher should be Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter, Apostle James, John & Jude

Shem, you've given a valid example in Acts 9:7 and 22:9. I've read this before, & not wanting to make excuses to justify the Word's inerrancy, could it be that in verse 7, those who were with Saul only heard a sound & not the words, whereas in verse 9 the same thing is said, that they did not hear the voice (the speech)? So, in both instances, it was only a sound that was heard.

Since the same Greek word for 'voice' (phonos) is used, its meaning can apply to both an intelligible voice or a sound. Then look at 1 Kings 19:12, "And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice." Again, no intelligible language was heard by Elijah, but a 'sound of quiet stillness'. The Hebrew word is 'qo-wl', meaning, 'a sound, a voice', an exact equivalent to the Greek. Therefore, I have no problem with this apparent difference, though I'm always interested to learn what others find in the Bible that could be a problem. Maybe you could throw me another one for my study - but please, not a hundred of them.

The Bible does not stand as a perfect or scientific document. Just speaking on KJV 1611, it is a sloppy manuscript, littered with topical flaws, contradictions and inconsistencies. To even notice the errors, you would have to read corresponding passages over and over, and over to compare and patch them together like a game of "concentration".

One example for the thick is Paul on his way to Damascus:

Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

So, what is it, huh? Did they hear the voice or not? I can do this all day with hundreds of verses that infuriate me.

As far as the earths shape is concerned, it is definitely spherical, like the other planets/moons. Though they reach for the stars, I will bring them down to the pit. Amos 9:2 LEO, 400 miles up is our limit, then we hit the firmament hard, keeping mankind "in". Space programs like governments are shrouded in mystery, deception, lies and fraud. NASA could prove the earths shape, but prefer to stoke the division of uncertainty. Did you see earths curvature last year when SpaceX posted the mission video? What about the earth casting a "round" shadow on the moon during an eclipse? Plato and Socrates saw the curved shadow and determined the earth was round.

For fun, Google "They're Alive!! Challenger Crew Found Alive and Well 30 years since the Disaster". The hoaxter astronauts didn't even bother to change their names!!!

Well thank you for calling it interesting I guess. What "assumptions" did I make that were false to you? I won't argue with anyone about this because I can't force anyone to believe anything. There is something called truth. And if I'm wrong then I take responsibility for what I've said. To have mature friendly conversations with others is always good. Even if beliefs are not exactly the same. If you call what I wrote "arguing" I apologize and am sorry you see it like that.

So to say you wont pick apart "all the logical errors presented here" just makes me feel you're saying I'm wrong and you're right? Then are you saying I'm twisting the Bible in some way? So you think it means what you want, or perceive, but what I see is false or wrong? After spending much time researching. Yet you won't let me know what you say is wrong with my statement. No problem, you can call it all wrong. But what if it's not?

So our belief is crazy? So where are your countless means of proof of the shape of the earth? And if you're going to tell me CGI pictures, what's on TV, what nasa says, or what they teach in school no need to reply brother.

Like I said before. I won't condemn people for believing what they were taught in this world. You call me in error, false, and with crazy beliefs because they are not of this "world". I still love you. God Bless.