Discuss Revelation 7 Page 14

This chapter concerns the initial stage of God wrath which is about to be poured out on the unbelieving world( Rev 6:15-17) many of which are responsible for the persecution and mistreatment of his people;whos souls cry out for vindication and justice,in the same chapter. Since the church is not appointed to wrath,as mentioned by Paul twice in his first letter to the Thessalonians ( 1Thess 1:10,5:9),God is now about to make an exchange of witnesses as he first seals 144,000 of his original witness(The Israelites see Isa 43:10-12)to finish out the final week(7 years)of Daniels 70th week( Dan 9:24-27). And then in an instant he snatches away his saints from all over the world,into his immediate presence to their Heavenly abode(The New Exodus)where they ascribe their deliverance Spiritual and Physical,to God and to the Lamb as their long journey comes to an end.Where the sun and the hot air will not effect them anymore. And where they will neither hunger nor thirst nor suffering anymore. As God and the lamb will meet all their needs. Just as it happened for the nation of Israel through their roughly 400 years of 'Great Tribulation' in Egyptian bondage,and their 40 years of wandering through the hot and humid wilderness where they were in need of food and water. In verses 11 and 12 of this vision,there is joy and rejoicing among the Angles over all the sinners who are saved(see Luke 15:7-10) This is in answer to a question that was asked about these verses. thanks

There is no other way for salvation,but God's way. We are almost at the end.Soon Jesus is coming to take His church, His followers to heaven before Antichrist starts ruling. Rapture is definitely going to take place before antichrist takes over. Jus t
go back and see John in Patmos. Here our Lord Jesus Christ is referring to the seven churches and please note that from 4th chapter onwards the word church is not mentioned, because from there on the church is in heavon with he HS too. Also note that at the north chapter the voice tells John to come up! Yes from here on John sees heaven and all that is happening in this work from heaven. No, the all believers will not be in this worl d when Antichrist comes.they will be in heaven with the Father,Son and the Holy Spirit. Praised be the Holy Trinity. So, sisters an brothers be ready , Be clean and joyful, that day is almost here?

After reading Revelations 7:9-17, it dawned upon me that this great multitude is not part of the 144,000. These are Christians who repented and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior ( Rev. 7:14). The 144,000 are from the tribes of Israel ( Rev. 7:4), whereas the great multitude come from all nations (not one nation was without Christians), and kindreds (relatives), and people, and tongues (different languages). Modern Christians, those who are not of the tribe of Israel, are part of this multitude.

The book of Revelation Chapter 7 is telling us that "JOHN HEARD" that it was a total of 144,000,000 "SERVANTS OF GOD" which were "SEALED IN THEIR FOREHEADS" and they were "ALL FROM" THE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL (v.1-8). "JOHN BEHELD" them that they were "OF ALL" nations, kindreds, people, and tongue, clothed with white robes, and with palm in their hands, praising God and the Lamb of God while the angels, the elders, and the four beast fell their faces before the throne to worship God (v.9-12). Those in white robes were came out of great tribulation and that their robes were made white in the blood of the Lamb who will feed them and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters and it is our God who shall wipe away all tears from their eyes (v.13-17).

am just giving a reply on jack shute's comment about the sealing of God's people where is it going on and how or in which way belivers are been sealed?

Its the only part of the bible i can understand .i would likee to get more on it.

the 144000 are those who followed JESUS[EX] MOSES and the res of the prophets ,and all who make it to heaven together we will be called the great multitude, starting from ADAM @ EVE

JESUS said my word they are spirit and they are alive. REVELATION 7:1--3 means verse 1 four angels are four messengers filled by the HOLY SPIRIT who will be raised up durring the fulfilment of this book, no event that is mention in this book is yet to be fulfilled all is future but very soon. Four winds represent the forces of evil, global event that will happen and will be carried out by Satan when God permits.verse 2 Another Angel is another group of servant that will rise in Jesus and Jesus will rise in them.The seal of the living God is the Holy Spirit, for the Spirit is the mark of Gods ownership. They are the same group of servants previouly signified by the 24 Elders in Revelation 4:4. The angel ascending from the east being heard to cry with a loud voice to the four angels marks these two groups of servants the priest and the prophets to work together in the time of the Revelation prophecy. verse 3.The priest signified by the angels ascending from the east will instruct the prophet to hold in check the armies of this world through the words of their prophecy until the priest have sealed the servants of our God with the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel those who believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be sealed.Eph1:13,2Corin1:21,22. The servants of God will be sealed in their foreheads that is in their hearts.The trees,earth ,sea represent the inhabitant of this earth, only the believers will be sealed.This message is for those who will believe in the Gospel in the Revelation time.But sealing of the believers is going on now Ephesians1:13. Reply if there's any doubt about this truth.and in what point you doubt so that I can prove all points from the bible KJV.

144,000 are them that finely understood the truth and were sealed in their minds most likely became followers of the two witnesses and anyway were sealed at the beginning of the hour of temptation. I also note that Dan and Ephraim are omitted and Levi and Joseph take there place because God will not tolerate idolatry but I notice that in Ezekiel 48 they are in the millennium temple called back, they got there act together for the word say's and it is written in Romans chapter 11 all of Israel will be saved. Why? Because in the millennium all will see Satan for what he is. Let's remember we are in the 6th seal and anti-Christ is on earth and before that occurs the seal has to be in the people minds, knoowledge, understanding, brains, foreheads, before this fact transpires. Anyone who thinks there is another way of salvation except God's plan and his test that all must go through is just kidding themselves. They will most likely end up worshippping the devil thinking he will fly them away.

i believe rapture is AFTER the tribulation

Jesus cleanses the robes with his blood and they became pure, white as he will want my soul.

Awesome knowledge.

I’m just wondering that if all are in that most important meeting, Father, The Son, Angels and the Congregation: then where are those who did not have to go through tribulation but have escaped through rapture. Can somebody comment please?

Matthew 25 can be a difficult chapter so we must remember some of the basic rules of interpretation:
1. Matthew is a book about the king of the Jews ( Matthew 2:2);
2. Until the cross they are under the law;
3. Jesus first came to save his people the Jews ( Matthew 1:21);
4. Much of Matthew is prophetic given to the Jews for the future, knowing that the Jews were going to reject Jesus as their Messiah. The titles of each book are clues to whom that book is directed at, Jewish title or gentile title. In chapter 25, if a person stumbles over the doctrinal intent then, it will be difficult understanding the spiritual intent. I believe that this chapter 25 is mainly given to the Jews in the tribulation age. Trying to place this chapter in the church age will not work and here is why.
a. Kingdom of heaven is a Jewish term;
b. Virgins = 144,000 Jews from Revelation 7:4 3;
c. The church is always without exception referred as singular (never plural);
d. Oil = holy spirit and it can never be purchased but given when asked for in church age;
e. The wise virgins trimmed their lamps = good works;
f. The foolish virgins did not trim their lamps = no works;
g. In church age we are saved by grace not by works;
h. The 5 virgins go out to meet the bridegroom (church age saints are caught up to be with him);
i. I believe there will be a tribulation rapture ( Revelation 11:12) and the 5 wise virgins that took oil, (in church age we receive oil (holy spirit)) go up with Christ in the tribulation rapture ( Revelation 14:12-16) and the 5 foolish virgins that did not trim their lamps go into the millennial age after second advent of Christ.

Thank you so much for all the instructions on the book of Revelation, may God continue to bless each of you richly in Jesus name, as we all that await the return of the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

ROMANS 11:1-6 COMMENTARY
TCHINDA FABRICE MBUNA

Saint Paul’s writing to the Romans present us with another challenging theology to deal with. The whole concept which is conveyed throughout this passage can be classified under REMNANT THEOLOGY. Yes, I strongly believe that God is a God of dispensation who works in TIME and SEASON. See Galatians 4:4, Ephesians 1:10. The time line of the history of divine providence from the day of the fall of the First Adam has been that of restoration and the preservation of the remnant of the children of Israel. Despite the providential struggle for restoration and preservation of the remnant of Israel, God has been working through CONVENANT THEOLOGY. In each historical age of the dispensation of restoration, God had always made himself manifest to his children through what I called COVENANT. That is why we cannot really disassociate DISPENSATIONAL THEOLOGY, CONVENANT THEOLOGY, and REMNANT THEOLOGY:
Saint Paul in Romans 11:5 is trying to convey a transcendent Truth about God which is through the GRACE of God, a remnant will always be preserved in all generations, irrespective of the circumstances. The word remnant itself should not only be understood within the light of all those who are being saved or the kept aside by the LORD, but the word remnant should be understood with the mindset of those whom God has chosen as an instrument to save the lost. The word remnant does not necessarily mean that they are those whom has chosen through his Unconditional Election to go to heaven. For example, in the days of Joseph, he was chosen as a remnant to preserve his brothers from the great famine which was to later befall the land. See Genesis 42. In the case of Joseph, we can see that he was unconditionally chosen by God’s election of Grace, and by means of this divine election of grace, his salvation was assured by God himself but his being chosen was for the preservation for the remnant that was to go through moments of hardship.
This again takes us to another argument in the book of Revelation 7:4-8 where in every twelve tribe in Israel God had or God has preserved at least twelve thousand people to be saved. If we have to make a multiplication of the twelve thousand people by the twelve tribes of Israel, that God had or has preserved in history, then we will come to the conclusion of having 144,000 remnant preserved as it is described in the book of Revelation 14:1- Does it mean that only 144,000 people are going to heaven? I say no. why? This is how I explicate myself. This 144,000 people stands for the remnant which God has kept for himself which he will use to work out the salvation of those who have not yet been saved so that through them others will be saved and come to the complete knowledge of the saving grace of God. If we can logically agree with Genesis 42 that Joseph was sent into Egypt because God in his master plan wanted to use him to preserve the remnant that was going to survive the famine, then it is obvious that the 144,000 people have the same providential role to play like Joseph.
In conclusion, the theology of Unconditional Election has never really meant to mean God has chosen others to be saved while he has predestined others for perdition. It does not suffice quoting the story of Esau and Jacob, but one thing remains certain that anybody who has been uncondionally set apart by God’s Unconditional Grace is only a bridge through whom the unsaved are saved. E.g, Esther.

HAVING described the sealing of the 144,000, John goes on to report one of the most exciting revelations in all Scripture. His heart must have leaped with joy as he reported it, saying: “After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.” ( Revelation 7:9) Yes, the holding back of the four winds allows for the salvation of another group besides the 144,000 members of spiritual Israel: a multilanguage, international great crowd.— Revelation 7:1.
6 How can we state so positively that the great crowd is this modern-day group of dedicated Christians who hope to live forever on God’s earth? Previously, John had seen in vision the heavenly group “bought . . . for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.” ( Revelation 5:9, 10) The great crowd have a similar origin but a different destiny. Unlike the Israel of God, their number is not predetermined. No man can tell in advance how many there will be. Their robes are washed white in the blood of the Lamb, symbolizing that they have a righteous standing before Jehovah by virtue of their faith in Jesus’ sacrifice. ( Revelation 7:14) And they are waving palm branches, hailing Messiah as their King.

How Many Are Sealed?
10 Jesus said to those in line for this sealing: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” ( Luke 12:32) Other scriptures, such as Revelation 6:11 and Romans 11:25, indicate that the number of this little flock is indeed limited and, in fact, predetermined. John’s next words confirm this: “And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed; out of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.”— Revelation 7:4-8.
11 Could this not be a reference to literal, fleshly Israel? No, for Revelation 7:4-8 diverges from the usual tribal listing. ( Numbers 1:17, 47) Obviously, the listing here is not for the purpose of identifying fleshly Jews by their tribes but to show a similar organizational structure for spiritual Israel. This is balanced. There are to be exactly 144,000 members of this new nation—12,000 from each of 12 tribes. No tribe in this Israel of God is exclusively royal or priestly. The whole nation is to rule as kings, and the whole nation is to serve as priests.— Galatians 6:16; Revelation 20:4, 6.
12 Although the natural Jews and Jewish proselytes were given the first opportunity to be chosen for spiritual Israel, only a minority of that nation responded. Jehovah therefore extended the invitation to the Gentiles. ( John 1:10-13; Acts 2:4, 7-11; Romans 11:7) As in the case of the Ephesians, who previously had been “alienated from the state of Israel,” now non-Jews could be sealed with God’s spirit and become part of the congregation of anointed Christians. ( Ephesians 2:11-13; 3:5, 6; Acts 15:14) It is appropriate, then, for the 24 elders to sing before the Lamb: “With your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”— Revelation 5:9, 10.
13 The Christian congregation is “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.” (1 Peter 2:9) Replacing natural Israel as God’s nation, it becomes a new Israel that is “really ‘Israel.’” ( Romans 9:6-8; Matthew 21:43) For this reason, it was quite proper for Jesus’ half brother James to address his pastoral letter “to the twelve tribes that are scattered about,” that is, to the worldwide congregation of anointed Christians that in time would number 144,000.— James 1:1.

I think revelation 7 is an awesome chapter. I believe God in His sovereignty way of loving us is preparing us of the choice in life we should make. twelve meaning perfection is an indication we are to arm ourselves like wise...illustrating we each come from on of these tribes.we are to honor, humble. and perfect our lives as such as the angels by glorifying God and His wondrous works He has done for us giving His only begotten son so we can live.likewise we should honor Him while we live.

I forgot to say, the 6th seal,6th trump,6th vial, all line up. Its "count" the smoothing down of a stone, count the number, means a generation of people, kenites, satans kenites, the beast and his system. That's the number of man. A lot of them will be here and many are here. Just stay with Christ and Gods protection.

The seals that are to be sealed in your mind are not in order. But this program or deeds as they are called are to be in your mind. Meaning to understan and know for the coming events that are in the future. These seals are what God is speaking of when speaking of being sealed. God gave these to us so we can be prepared to stand against satan and not to get involved with the beast system. We who love God through Jesus Christ already have the Holy Spirit. But if you jump out of a plane with out knowledge of sky diving & have the right equipment, your gona fall to death. Do what God said, consume the little Book with understanding and divide the word. Keep track of the subject,object,article,and the time its happening. Much of the symbolism is explained in Revelation 17.

1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 happen at the 7th Trump. Paul speaks in Colloquial greek and signs off big at the end because he is half blind and most of them that were with him did dictate his words and put it to paper for him. This Colloquial greek is noticed in Hebrew 12:1. Written there he is speaking of a crowd or pack of people and uses a great cloud which is a crowd of people which is the same as the cloud in 1 Thess. 4, and we will all witness at that 7th trump our Lords return to build his kingdom here on earth. Them that are dead are dear to us but are alive with Christ and will return with Him. I say ,They are alive right now! Yeah! The "air" a breath of life and a higher way of thinking and yes we will ALL be changed in a twinkle of an eye at the 7th trump. That is the Trump of GOD, THE 7TH trump. The last one. The subject was in verse 13 "asleep" or where are the dead. Not chickens flying like the N.I.V. says in Ezekiel 13. Or any of them fly away Bibles that have changed Gods Word to fit mans doctrine. Toss them out and get the real K.J.B. and save your soul not your church attendance.

scrolling down I read what religions have taught in theirs traditions of preachings. Hell fire is coming! Problem is only two die. The two witneses. Plus the fact the LORD said they can't harm the elect. Not a hair on our head. Plus the vile one comes in peace and flatteries. Don't know why churches teach from their own hearts and not the word of God. But God told us all through the word not to believe man only to trust the LORD Gods Word. Read the word people.

You miss the part in verse 14 that said these are the ones that came out of the great tribulation. Meaning they were in and heard the elect and realize and came out. When you come out of something, that means you were in something.

Alicia, read Ezekiel in KJV. The Rapture is a lie. Them that teach and are preaching that 1830`s garbage are preaching from their own minds/heart. It is a lie. In. 1 Thessalonians Paul was speaking of the dead and where they are at with God not in a hole in the ground and that they will return with Him at the 7th trump and not flying away. Paul tells us “not” to listen to the first letter in the 2nd Thessalonians or any word coming from men who teach anything other than he is going to tell you now in his 2nd letter and then begins to tell us what will happen at the time of the Lord`s return. Read all of Ezekiel 13 and you will know there is NO Rapture and God is our salvation not men or woman preaching other words. People who believe in the rapture are people who grew up listening to Bible thumpers and never seek to know the scriptures they pull up scriptures that have nothing to do with the subject matter of what’s being said and put in their own thoughts of how to create their own salvation of flying away and not waiting for the True Christ. Why would anyone want to fly away? Antichrist comes in peace and giving everybody everything they want. Give you anything, all you have to do is bow down. The Elect are going to be here while these pew church sitter get to rapture and fly away, I think not! God wants us to stand and fight with our Gospel Armor on and in place. Not put on a chicken suit and fly to save our own souls. Satan” big lie is to get all them over in confusion to the gathering place to fly them away. Guess what happens at the 7th trump. Hail stones of 180 lbs. will bring them down. All them that stand with Satan are dead.

These are them that heard the Elect and turned away before the 7th Trump. As long as your in the flesh you can realize, "hey this ain't Christ!" Then ask for forgiveness. Stay out and don't bow down or buy and sell.

To Travis's Revelation Ch.7 Comment 8-02-2010,"for those who martyred themselves for God's cause".In Biblical Scripture a martyred persons life is taken by the force of another not the martyred individual taking his own life for the cause of God as you have written.Your rendering of "martyred themselves" speaks of newspaper headlines we have read, Allah Akbar, as they martyred themselves and take the lives of others thru their act of martyr.

Alicia may this help you with Rev 7:11. what John is explaining is the event in Heaven right after the Rapture. The angels along with the FOUR BEAST and the Elders are praising God for His Awesome gift of salvation. Forgiveness,redemption and salvation is the wholeness of God's love,mercy and grace for us sinners and to awesomely praise our God,Creator and Maker for what He has done through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ it's something I am greatly looking forward to do in His Magestic presence.If you read on you will then see John writing about those who all came out of the Rapture and not the Great Tribulation.How do I know this, by reading,studing and believing in God' Word in it's true and non-altering translation as all the other translations have shown me except the KJV and the Douay Rheims Bible. That being was that they all added the word 'the' right before the words (...great tribulation) in Revelation 7:14.They but the KJV and the D. Rheims Bible write "These are they which came out of (the) tribulation," IF this was so then Jesus lied to us(God forbid!) For it is written in !Thes. 1 :10 "...even Jesus,which delivered us from the wrath to come" And also in 1 Thes 4:16-18 it says that too by being 'caught up' or Raptured. By adding the word 'the' it shows people entering and coming out of the Great Tribulation. which will not happen period,but to the 144,000 who are sealed on their foreheads with God's seal as we Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Also the two Witnesses too,and that is all period. For when God closes the door it is finally closed never to be opened again, just like the days of Noah and when Jesus spoke of the parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 24:37-39/25:1-13. Alicia please pray and ask the Lord in Jesus' name if what I have shared with you comes from God being true or if I am making this by up lieing to you,so help me God! One thing I do though Alicia is back my words up with God's Holy Word, that I do and never ashamed either!! May God forever love and bless you! May those who have ears hear what the Spirit says to the Churches!! Ezekiah 33:33

What we see here in the 7 seals is the same thing that Jesus described in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 up to verse 11 (verse 12 begins the description of the persecution, and instructions the Christians in 70 AD to get "the heck out of Doge" when you see the armies surrounding Jerusalem)
Now for seal 7. Realize that revelation seems to fit the 70th week of Daniel. Now, following all the physical tumults that started on the earth in connection with the Antichrist entering the fairly new temple in Jerusalem and declaring himself to be God which is connected with the 6th Seal) And, it follows seal 5 where Jesus is being called into action to take on the final Duty of the Goel - The Avenger of Blood, which he does in the following chapters of Revelation.
This physical tumult resulting from the probable shift of the re-balancing of the earth on it's axis, and some major tectonic plate movement. also does some things to cause the 4 winds of heaven to stop.

To Alicia: It describes what happens when the throne of God is established on earth. They worship God by knocking their heads on the ground, the greatest form of obeisance to the Almighty. The throne of God will be established by God himself on earth. See also Dan 2:44