Discuss John 6 Page 8

Reading, Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7, Romans 2:8,

"believer" Mark 16:16-18, Luke 8, John 1:12, John 6:64, John 7:5, John 12:23-50, John 17, Romans 4, 1Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 11:6, James 2, James 2:19, Romans 1, through Romans 2, Romans 6,

* 1Peter 4, 1Peter 4:17,

Hope these are helpful

What is Salvation? "Asked by Lala."

"Answer"

Salvation is life!

Salvation is a new creation in you performed by God.

Salvation is when "GOD TRANSFORM YOU" after you truly believing and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ. You have been transformed from dead to life. we're not perfect but we are transformed.

Here's a few old testament scripture that gives a description of salvation and how it's performed.

Deuteronomy 30:6. And the LORD thy God will CIRCUMCISE thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. "Here you see the lord cutting away filthy flesh from your heart."

vs. 8. " This is what God causes you to do after cutting away the "flesh".

"And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day."

Jeremiah 24:7.

Jeremiah 31:33-34.

Jeremiah 32:38-40.

"I like vs 40! Eternal Security found in the old testament!

( And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me)

Ezekiel 11:19.

Ezekiel 36:25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I CLEANSE YOU.

Ezekiel 36:26-27. "Salvation is a cleansing!"

Salvation is a transformation by Gods spirit in you, and that comes by way of Jesus.

New Testament references.

John 15:1-8.

John 10:27-29.

John 6:45.

Ephesians 2:1-10.

Philippians 1:6.

Colossians 3:10.

Romans 6:17-18.

God bless.

Hi Lala.

Salvation is life!

Salvation is a new creation in you performed by God.

Salvation is when "GOD TRANSFORM YOU" after you truly believing and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ. You have been transformed from dead to life. we're not perfect but we are transformed.

Here's a few old testament scripture that gives a description of salvation.

Deuteronomy 30:6. And the LORD thy God will CIRCUMCISE thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. "Here you see the lord cutting away filthy flesh from your heart."

vs. 8. " This is what God causes you to do after cutting away the "flesh".

"And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day."

Jeremiah 24:7.

Jeremiah 31:33-34.

Jeremiah 32:38-40.

Ezekiel 11:19.

Ezekiel 36:25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I CLEANSE YOU.

Ezekiel 36:26-27. "Salvation is a cleansing!"

Salvation is a transformation by Gods spirit in you, and that comes by way of Jesus.

New Testament references.

John 15:1-8.

John 10:27-29.

John 6:45.

Ephesians 2:1-10.

Philippians 1:6.

Colossians 3:10.

Romans 6:17-18.

I know this is a lot,

I pray you read over them.

God bless.

Dear friends 1 word comes to me. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

(If men had been a little overbearing and allowed the women more in meetings. Would they have received more prayer answers and growth. This condescending tone many have is destructive. It is to discriminate against what God has created).

Men do not tolerate laughter and joy, it is a loss for them! And shame.

God bless us all in His time in Jesus, love u all in Christ. Hebrew 10

Hello Patty,

Chris gave you a good explanation of what happens when we die.

I want to add: what happens when the dead in Christ will rise first? This is the resurrection of the dead spoken of by Jesus and Paul

John 6:40; 1 Corinthians Chapter 25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16

When Jesus comes back, the bodies of those believers who have died will be resurrected as glorified human body like Jesus' resurrection body. The body of those who are alive at Jesus' coming will be instantly changed into a glorified human body like Jesus' resurrection body. But the order is, Jesus returns; the dead are bodily resurrected and united with their soul and spirit; those who are still alive will then be changed, as I stated.

Jesus is fully God and fully man. He will be this way for all of eternity. He has a glorified human body in heaven that can be felt, fed, and other functions of His natural body, but not be corrupted by sin or the grave. His human body is immortal and will exist forever. Both natures (God and man) will forever reside in this body, having been united at His conception in Mary.

Our resurrection bodies will be like Jesus' resurrection body in all ways, with the exception of not having an innate God nature like Jesus does, but we will having the indwelling Holy Spirit in us for all of eternity, whom unites us to Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit in an awesome, mysterious way.

Hi everyone dear. Now a case is central. You can turn around and never touch what you "like so much" again. John 8:36 Like and take any miserable thought as temptation. 2 Corintihans 10:5 Place it somewhere you can not come and never bring it out again! : D I see hope in that. 1 John 5:13

For when we meet the Lord in our life, all things become new, the old is gone. John 3:7 John 3:21 And remember it is the Lord who must draw us. John 6:44 We ourselves do not know anything. It is good that we can lean on Jesus, we must all do that.

Stay blessed in Jesus name, love u all in Christ.

Hi Roman.

Thanks for replying.

I've moved this conversation to a new thread since the other is a week old, And off topic.

You stated:

"Spencer, Jesus said 2 commandments are most important, above all. If I follow the commandments, I will be OK at that. I don't need to dissect a butterfly to see how it flies. My impression is that everyone good and bad make it to the promised land, the tainted spirits we wear will be made whole so we haven't the capacity to sin. Even though it's dangled in our faces, the lake of fire is only for the 3 evil spirits, and no one else. Too much speculation and fuss is made over what will never be known and confirmed from the hear and now. Anything that occurs past the 7th trumpet is beyond our scope, beyond our comprehension, and out of this world. For all we know, our salvation comes from being thrown back into the universe as dust particles, into a new realm.

I don't think about my salvation, I don't worry about it, because it's not mine to entertain, but God's.

My personal salvation is rooted in selfishness that I could be good enough to make the grade.

I seek truth well before salvation. I was never a fanatic for life, so I look forward to death, the charade over. I wouldn't mind being blotted out as if I never existed, no record, that would be fine with me, too. I will have to wait and see what the Lord has in store for me.' End quote.

Roman if I had that mindset there wouldn't be any need to witness.

Roman you said you believe the lake of fire was only for the 3 evil spirits. here's their fate. Revelation 20:10.

But in this same chapter here's

mention of the lost suffering the same fate!! Revelation 20:15.

Here's a few of many scriptures I believe.

We've all sinned and come up short.

Romans 3:22-25.

The payment/Blood sacrfice.

Matthew 20:28.

Hebrews 9:26.

Conclusion.

John 6:28-29.

John 3:16-17.

Romans 10:9.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Thanks and God bless you Roman.

Perhaps later.

God bless.

Well Jim, you're doing well in keeping up with all the comments to you. And if I may continue as well.

I don't believe any of us have a problem with Jesus being called the Son of God & the Son of Man - for so He is. From your understanding, Jesus began life only at birth, as the Holy Spirit placed the Seed in Mary (of God) & she then gave birth to a Man (of man).

So, the passage you quoted ( 1 Cor 15:26-28) & others signifying Jesus' elevated Position & having all things subject to Him & He being subject to the Father, I would agree to as Jesus was raised from the dead as Man, ascended & at the right Hand of God, receiving worship, & fulfilling His Position in God's Design. The problem does not lie here as we agree to these things. The problem lies whether this Holy One was in an earlier 'Divine State' or not; was He part of the Godhead or only a newly created Being born in Bethlehem?

I noted your understanding, to Adam, on the John 1:1 verse, specifically, "I'm saying that the word of God is instilled in Our Lord Jesus." And John 6:38 as well: "The Holy Spirit of God from heaven produced the manna on earth. The same with Jesus. The Holy Spirit descended on Mary and created the Lord Jesus Christ."

To John 1:1: there are other hurdles to overcome here, viz verses 3 & 14. Verse 3 speaks of "all things being made by Him" & verse 14, "the Word (i.e. that which was with God & was God - of v1) was made flesh". So here we have Someone creating (also seen in Colossians 1:13-17) & that Word from God being given flesh. I doubt if any could avoid a clear understanding of what is being taught here. And then we have John 8:57,58, John 17:5, etc. If I avoided these verses, I could well agree with you, but Scripture taken in totality simply presents this Jesus as Someone far greater from eternity than a special sinless creation in Bethlehem. It would be interesting to learn your view on these other verses, as many others have failed to come back to me when asked of them.

Hello Tom,

Like others who have responded, I think that John was in a state of doubt. Perhaps he was depressed which led to doubt and a sense of hopelessness, knowing he faced death by being beheaded. He may have wondered if he had "gotten it right" concerning Jesus. he needed encouragement. Being a prophet, he was satisfied with Jesus' reply because Jesus replied with prophecy. "the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are healed, the dead are raised up and, the poor have the gospel preached to them. Blessed is he who is not offended because of me." (Is.29:18, Ps 22:26, Is. 66:1) are referenced for this reply from Jesus. John knew OT Scripture and he knew what Jesus was referring to. This report strengthened Joh in faith and in fortitude to face his beheading.

As stated, Elijah had a similar experience of doubt, as did the apostles (see Thomas).

This account causes me to know that, should I face a similar time of doubt and/or persecution, the Holy Spirit will bring to mind Scripture to build up my faith and strengthen me, whether in my mind, or by reading the Word, or by the words brought to me by a fellow believer. Jesus does not abandon us when we doubt. He does not leave us unprotected, though he may allow doubt. He is near the brokenhearted. He is our sure help in times of trouble. He is the Resurrection and the Life. So, whether we live or die, we live to Him, our Savior. "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." ( John 6:68-69)

JESUS said that we must not work for money and wealth and that God would provide our needs Matthew 6:19-33 and john 6:27

He told us to sell all

Luke 11:41 to the pharisees

Luke 12:33 to the disciples

Luke 14:33 to the multitudes

Luke 18:22, Matthew 19:16-30 to the rich guy

And his disciples approve

Acts 2:44-45

Acts 4:33-34

Luke 18:28-30

Matthew 4:18-24

But who will go to heaven

Jesus and Jacob give us a hint

Luke 18:24-25

Mark 10:17-31

Matthew 5:3

Luke 6:20

James 2:5

But where does that put the rich?

Luke 6:24-25

James 5:1-3

What is the root of all evil?

1 timothy 6:10

Genesis 3

Are we to live under the curse or are we set free by God through Jesus? Because he broke every curse including this one:

Genesis 3:17-19

Should we end in the midst of the Sodomites?

Ezekiel 16:49-50

Luke 17:28

But there are days ahead that we would need to learn to trust in Yahweh for Manna his heavenly bread because the mark of the beast is the last form of money as a chip

Revelation 13

But if we learn to do these things that Jesus taught we might survive and prevail.

Matthew 24:35, Psalm 12:6-7, John 6:63, Psalm 119:89,

1 Peter 1:23-25, Proverbs 30:5, Luke 4:4, Acts 19:20, Romans 10:17,

John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:11-16.

Yes,

Matthew 25:31-46, 2Thessalonians 1,

Matthew 18:8, John 3:36, Jude 1:6, Revelation 20,

Please read :

John 3:15-17, Matthew 19:29, John 5:24, John 6:27,47, Romans 6:22,

Hopefully these are helpful

Originally I wrote a post saying that trying to show that "shall be made alive" in 1 Corinthians 15:22 is more than just physical resurrection may be trying to prove too much. But I was wrong.

The word translated "shall be made alive" zoopoiethesontai is derived from a word that is used in the New Testament for being resurrected or quickened to eternal life. Here are the other passages that use derivatives of this word:

John 5:21

John 6:63

Romans 4:17

Romans 8:11

1 Corinthians 15:36

1 Corinthians 15:45

2 Corinthians 3:6

Galatians 3:21

1 Peter 3:18

This word cannot mean life common to all men living and moving and having their being in Christ, nor can it mean simply resurrection to either eternal life or the second death. Under this meaning I am persuaded that the word "all" in 1 Corinthians cannot be an unlimited universal "all" and in both instances where it is used in this passage it is limited by the words "in Adam" and "in Christ". "In Christ" appears to be used in this passage by Paul in a similar way to the way he uses that phrase and the phrase "in Him" in Ephesians.

Ephesians 1:2-4,7,10,13,20

Ephesians 2:6-7,10,13,20-22

Ephesians 3:6,11-12

Ephesians 4:32

This also suggests that "all men" in Romans 5:18 is limited by the "one man" being referenced, either Adam or Christ.

The connection that Adam and Christ share in common with the "all" in 1 Corinthians 15:22 and Romans 5:8 has several different interpretations that have been offered. Personally I believe there is a federal headship connection. "Things done by one may be imputed unto others, propter relationem foederalem, because of a covenant relation between them." Hodge

I also believe Adam and Christ are uniquely qualified and appointed by God to be the first fruits of their respective seed. No other human beings can be presented before God in the way they can.

....continued

An omer is about 9 1/2 cups (2.3 liters). As I read these instructions, I think about the Lord's Prayer Jesus gave us ( Matt. 6:9-13).

In this prayer we ask God for our daily bread. And John 6:32-51, where He speaks of being the Bread of Life that came down from heaven. This chapter speaks how the Israelites ate manna in the desert and still died, but not so for those who eat the Bread of Life, Jesus.

Anyone who did not obey the instructions concerning manna had an unpleasant experience but God chose not to punish them severely. He was merciful to the disobedient and fickle Israelites. The manna was unique, one of a kind food, which does not exist in the natural world. YHWH fed the Israelites with manna and, I thin, quail, throughout the 40 years of wandering. But even so, Jesus said, man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. It was better for the Israelites to believe God and His Word than to go with human reason and save more manna than can be eaten in a day. The fact that the manna kept to the next day bred worms and was inedible yet this was not so for the manna gathered the day before to be kept over night for the Sabbath demonstrates this Scripture well. ( Matt. 4:4)

Relying on God day to day is the way we are to live our life. Not consumed with "always stocking up just in case" or being so frugal that one cannot enjoy the blessings of God that one receives by trusting Him. We are to be wise and certainly saving or putting up food is a good thing, but not to a point of compulsion to where one trusts in his one ability to provide today and also for the future. This daily provision also reminds us that we should be satisfied that God provides what is necessary for life, not riches, gold, silver, mansions, largess of any kind. We should be content with what God provides and seek the riches and treasure we have in .

This chapter seems to introduce the Sabbath command. Is this the first time?

I think if you trace out commentaries on Judas in the Gospels and Acts you get the answers to both of your questions.

The set of scriptures that speak about Judas before he committed himself to betray Jesus are: Mark 3:13-19, Luke 6:13-16, John 6:61-71

The event that triggered Judas to act on his decision to betray Jesus: Matthew 26:6-16, Mark 14:3-11, John 12:3-8

Judas identified as betrayer at the last supper: Matthew 26:20-25, Mark 14:17-21, Luke 22:21-22, John 13:18-31

Once his betrayal was set in motion: John 17:9-12

At the betrayal: Matthew 26:45-50, Mark 14:40-46, Luke 22:45-48, John 18:1-9

After completing his betrayal: Matthew 27:3-10, Acts 1:16 and Acts 1:20

We must acknowledge Jn 2:24-25 was true of Christ before He chose any of His disciples. He was never deceived by anyone that temporarily followed him but fell away, including Judas, John 6:64. No prophet had been in Israel for centuries, so Christ alone had this ability when He came until Pentacost. After Pentacost the hearts of certain individuals could be revealed by Christ's Spirit to born again believers that are specially given that gift, such as Peter ( Acts 5:1-13, Acts 8:1-25) Note, Jusas, Ananias and Saphira, and Simon all had their hearts exposed as false thru their follies with money.

Judas was a disciple and he was broken off the vine, but he never had the fruit of the Holy Spirit and was never pronounced pruned/cleaned by the Father or Jesus. We know this because Judas was broken off by the Father before Jesus told the disciples they were pruned/cleaned branches abiding in Him, the true vine, who would bear fruit in John 15. Judas was marked unclean, he was never born again of the Spirit at Pentacost or made an Apostle for the great commission. He died a disciple without the fruitful presence of the Holy Spirit. He is proof that false fruitless brethren can be among us who depart 1 Jn 2:18-20, but not proof some are broken off by God who actually bear fruit by abiding in Jesus.

Thanks brother S. Spencer for that pertinent discourse by McGee; he clearly & accurately presents the case for election & predestination.

In regards to his word, "So we have Predestination and Mans free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him".

I think of John 6:44, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." By His Spirit, God draws men to Him. The Gospel goes out to all but some are moved by its message & Work of God continues with that penitent soul. Others, receiving the Gospel remain unmoved, even against it, yet the Spirit continues His Work till that soul sees the Light. These are all part of the elect of God. Those who reject Christ to the end of their lives have by their Will shown that they are not part of God's Elect & nothing would ever move them towards desiring the Salvation of God. In summary, man cannot present any excuse to God in that final day.

Hi Rachel.

Here's a writing from J Vernon Mcgee.

Part 1 of ?

John 6:37.

This thirty-seventh verse is a very important verse. There is a theological argument that rages today on election or free will. There are some people who put all their eggs in the basket of election. There are others who put all their eggs in the basket of free will. I'm not proposing to reconcile the two because I have discovered that I cannot. If you had met me the year that I entered seminary, or the year I graduated, I could have reconciled them for you. I never have been as smart as I was my first year and my last year in seminary. I knew it all then. I could reconcile election and free will, and it was a marvelous explanation. Now I've even forgotten what it was. It was pretty silly, if you want to know the truth.

Election and free will are both in this verse. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me" states a truth, and that is election. But wait a minute! and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" is also true, and "him that cometh to me" is free will. I don't know how to reconcile them, but they are both true. The Father gives men to Christ, but men have to come. And the ones that come are the ones, apparently, whom the Father gives to Him. You and I are down here, and we don't see into the machinery of heaven. I don't know how God runs that computer of election, but I know that He has given to you and to me a free will and we have to exercise it.

Because Spurgeon preached a "whosoever will" gospel, someone said to him, "If I believed like you do about election, I wouldn't preach like you do." Spurgeon's answer was something like this, "If the Lord had put a yellow stripe down the backs of the elect, I'd go up and down the street lifting up shirt tails, finding out who had the yellow stripe, and then I'd give them the gospel. But God didn't do it that way.

See Part 2.

Jesus Christ is God:

Deity is the only explanation for all that He was and all that He did.

(1) He was pre-existent with the Father. "The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made" ( John 1:2, 3, KJV). (Also see John 17:5 and Colossians 1:17.)

(2) He is the Son of God.

His enemies admitted: "He...said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" ( John 5:18, KJV).

Peter confessed: "And we believe and are sure that thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" ( John 6:69, KJV).

Jesus affirmed: "I and my Father are one" ( John 10:30, NIV).

(3) He was sinless, as only God can be.

Jesus challenged His enemies: "Which of you convinceth me of sin?" ( John 8:46, KJV).

Peter testified: "...Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth" ( 1 Peter 2:21, 22, KJV).

Paul stated: "For he...made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" ( 2 Corinthians 5:21, KJV).

(4) He forgives sin, as only God can.

The Scribes said: "Who can forgive sins but God only?" ( Mark 2:7, KJV).

Jesus said: "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins..." ( Matthew 9:6, KJV). (Also see John 8:11.)

Peter wrote: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" ( 1 Peter 2:24, KJV).

(5) He performed miraculous works.

He healed the sick: Matthew 8:9-13; Luke 4:31-44; 5:12-15; John 4:43 to 5:16; and other references.

He fed the hungry: John 6; Mark 8, etc.

He raised the dead: Luke 7:11-18; John 11:1-46.

Jesus Christ Became Man:

"And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us...full of grace and truth" ( John 1:14, KJV). (See also Philippians 2:7, 8.)

Not sure who had answered & given scripture, but hopefully I can help.

Matthew 8,

Matthew 8:4, 1st "Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man;" why._._ Mark 5:24, Mark 3:7-10, John 6:15, John 7:3-8, John 6:2,26, John 12:37,

2nd part of Matthew 8:4, gift to the priests Moses commanded, Leviticus 13,

3rd part of Matthew 8:4 for a testimony to them, prophecy fulfilling, Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Job 14:7, Isaiah 11:1, Zechariah 3:8-9, Jeremiah 33:15, John 15:4,

Matthew 8:11-12 = Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 2:2, Matthew 27:11, Romans 1:6,

Matthew 8:17, Isaiah 53,

Matthew 8:22, Luke 20:38,

Matthew 8:24-27, Luke 8:22-25,

Matthew 8:28-34, Mark 5:1-20, Luke 8:27-39,

Hopefully these are helpful

Roman,

"... as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man. They...(ate, drank and married)... until THE DAY that Noah entered the Ark, and the flood came, and destroyed THEM ALL. (The sinners are not destroyed 1,000 years later)

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; ... THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven, and destroyed THEM ALL.

Even thus shall it be in THE DAY when the Son of Man is revealed."

Luke 17:26-30

And when is He revealed?

AFTER the Great Tribulation, on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT 1,000 years later.

Mt. 24:29-31

John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48

"... the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, ...cast into the sea, ...When it was full, they ... gathered the good into vessels, but CAST THE BAD AWAY. (They didn't SAVE the bad for 1,000 years.)

So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and SEVER THE WICKED from among the just, and shall CAST THEM INTO THE FURNACE OF FIRE: ..."

Mat. 13:47-50

The wicked will be SEVERED from the just on THE DAY that Jesus returns, and they will be destroyed along with the rest of the earth.

Isaiah 13:9-11

You mentioned something about this next passage, the order of the firstfruits?:

"...they that are Christ's at His coming. (shall be made alive) Then COMETH THE END, when He shall have DELIVERED UP THE KINGDOM TO GOD, even the Father; WHEN HE SHALL HAVE PUT DOWN ALL RULE and all authority and power."

1 Cor. 15:22-24

And why does Jesus hand over HIS kingdom to the Father on the SAME DAY that He returns? BECAUSE IT WAS HIS KINGDOM from the time of the Cross until His return. He does NOT hand it over 1,000 years AFTER His return.

Israel of God, the Children of God, are a Spiritual Race, not a physical ethnic race. How can we be sure?

"God is a Spirit"

John 4:24

"... Israel is My son; even My first-born:"

Exod. 4:22

If God is a Spirit, His children must be of the Spirit; not a physical race of people who are centralized in one place in the world. God told us He would strike the Shepherd (Jesus) and the sheep would be scattered. The Israel/Children of God are among every race and in every corner of the world.

"... They which are the children of THE FLESH, these are NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: ..."

Rom. 9:8

The Children of the Spirit are of God; THEY are the True Israel.

The Day of the Lord in Joel is the same as in Isaiah 13:9-11 & Matt. 24:29-31. It is the Wrath of God, final day judgment. Jesus returns on the very last day of the world which eliminates the possibility of a Millennium period BEFORE these things take place.

Jesus tells us in John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; John 11:24 & John 12:48 that He is coming on the Last Day of the world. That is the SAME DAY that the Wrath of God takes place. That's why it is called the Lord's (Jesus') Day.

These verses coincide perfectly with the Matt. and Isaiah verses above.

"A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, ..."

Joel 2:2

"The earth shall quake ... the heavens shall tremble: the sun and moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the Lord shall utter His voice before His army: for the Day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

Joel 2:10-11

"...let the Bridegroom go forth of His chamber, and the bride out of her closet. (this is Jesus returning for His saints on the same day as the Wrath of God/Day of the Lord - coincides perfectly with Matt. 24:29-31)

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible Day of the Lord come."

Joel 2:31

There is no place for 1,000 yrs between Jesus' return and the Wrath of God. It does not fit.

Many people try to claim that events in scripture coincide with certain Trumpet Events, and therefore MUST be held to a certain order of events listed in Revelation. The book of Revelation makes very clear that it is all vision, symbols and spiritual events. As I've shown, Rev. 20:1-7 is contradicted by many prior events in the book of Revelation and thus cannot be taken as literal or LINEAR. Too many events in Revelation contradict 20:1-7 before it even begins.

God makes very clear to us in His Word using 'signature events' to create undeniable proof of the things that line-up in scripture to create a rock-solid foundation for specific doctrine. The 'Day of the Lord, Wrath of God, return of Jesus' is one of those events - the same event. And I have supplied the passages that reveal this very clearly.

Matthew 24:29-31

and

Isaiah 13:9-11

Signature events:

"...the stars of heaven and the constellations ... shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened ... the moon shall not cause her light to shine."

Isaiah 13:10

"Immediately after the Tribulation ... shall the sun be darkened,... the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:..."

Matt. 24:29

Same day, same event. The Day of the Lord (Jesus')/Wrath of God destruction of the earth and all sinners and the return of Jesus Christ.

The Wrath of God:

"Behold the Day of the Lord (Jesus) cometh, cruel both with WRATH and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

Isaiah 13:9

"And I will PUNISH THE WORLD for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible."

Isaiah 13:11

These events happen on the same exact day, the 'very last day' of the earth. How do we know? Jesus Himself tells us plainly many times in the book of John.

John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48

The Millennium is False Doctrine.

John 3:16; John 5:24; John 6:37-40,47; John 10:27-29; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:38,39; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 2:8; Ephesians 4:30; Hebrews 13:5; 1 John 5:11-13; Jude 1:24 - are a few examples, all promising the true child of God that his/her salvation is secure forever.

Yet 1 John 3:7-10 reveals the two-faced 'Christian': having every appearance of serving God, but has sin dominating his life; living carelessly & not carefully.

Actually, I don't see much difference between the two phrases; it's probably just how one expresses his belief, using a different preposition. Compare John 6:29; Romans 4:24, with John 14:1; 1 Peter 1:21. You might not see too much difference.

Now, if the contrast was 'believing in God' to 'believing about God', then the difference is clearer, where one has put his love & trust in his heavenly Father, & the other has a belief or understanding about God's Nature & Works without necessarily having an intimacy with God. Others here may have other thoughts to help you.

Great reply Ronald.

I believe all through the scripture it supports the view the Holyspirit empowers the believer and as the scriptures you pointed out it took the dwelling of the Holyspirit to perform in them to minister under this new covenant. You see it in the life of Peter here in Luke 22:32. When was Peter strengthened and start to perform? It's obvious in scripture after he was empowered. Christ was preaching his death and resurrection, but they couldn't receive it. In Luke 18:31-34. he declared to them what the Prophets has written, and they still couldn't grasp it because it hidden from them.

Also, in John 16:12-14. seems to suggest the same thing. The preaching of the Cross was hidden from their eyes, and it seems Paul is mentioning the same thing throughout his epistles speaking of the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:7-14.

The Holyspirirt is essential for understand and walk. Once he reveals his truth to us they're written on our hearts it takes him to exercise those truths in us and perfect our walk. we respond to the truth by the power of the Holyspirit, likewise the Apostles.

For it is God which worketh in you both to "will" and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63.

The bible is not like our textbooks in school, what we have here has to be revealed to you, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.

Also: 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

You see the Holyspirits power over the flesh in Romans 8:1-14.

You see the Holyspirirt working in us through baptism given us power to cease from sin in Romans 6:1-18.

You see the contrast of the two natures in Romans 7:1-6. and so on. Here we see the contrast of what we had when we were under the law compared to what we have in Christ.

God bless.

Donna,

I think that doubt is just part of the fallen human condition.

Jesus did not reject Thomas for doubting the report of His resurrection from his fellow disciples. Jesus showed up at a time He knew Thomas was present. Jesus will "show up" for us. Too. When we doubt.

I had a time if tom 2002-2005 where I was discouraged, wounded, and questioned my faith and doubted big time. But what brought me out of it was this word from the Spirit to me when I was at my lowest: Lord. To whom else shall we go? For You have the words of eternal life.

John 6:6

Just know that I have been a believer all my life and even after following Jesus for 40+ years, I went through this valley, and Jesus showed up in through these words the Spirit brought to my mind. This experience made me stronger and even more determned to follow Jesus because I realized. Really, there is no other option but Jesus for the life that is really worth living as we live it in the Resurrection power of Jesus

So be encourage in doubts, cry out to Gid and He will "show up" so You might believe amidst the doubts, tears, and, discouragement.

Hi GiGi. I often think of John 6:66-69 when confronted with the thought of the disciples' spiritual condition: "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

There were those of Jesus' other disciples (other than the 12), who turned their backs to the Lord, but the 12, bar Judas, remained faithful even though their love & faith in the Lord were often severely tested. As Peter exclaimed, 'to whom can we turn to, to receive the words of eternal life, You the promised Messiah of God?' Maybe, our expectations of the disciples are oddly higher than for the rest of us, given their personal encounter with Jesus & witness of His Glory & Power. But we fail to remember that they were like us in every way, with their doubts, fears, & questions, & they could hardly envisage how their lives would change when the Holy Spirit would one day empower them to live for the Lord, to teach the Truths of God & one day to die for Him. These traits should be characteristic of each one of us who have been touched & changed by God's Spirit, or else we would be mere followers, ever hungering, walking unsteadily, living with doubts & fears. "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

That's a question which many have pondered over. However, when people ask such a question, they generally begin with 'God having chosen some to belong to Him & have rejected others consigning them to suffering in Hell'. Yet, in my understanding, the start of it doesn't begin with God choosing, but with God knowing. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God" ( 1 Peter 1:2); or, 'being a part of the elect of God because of God's foreknowledge of every person'.

We believe in an Omniscient God, that is a God Who knows all things, the complete lives of people (before their birth till the day of their death) & every event in Heaven & on Earth that may not even had a beginning as yet to us. Psalm 139:1-16 is a great Psalm showing both the omniscience & omni-presence of God & as David said in verse 6: "Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it." Such knowledge is only in God's domain, not just of all things present, but also of all things before they come to pass or into being.

So when we read a verse as you shared, John 15:16, we see that Jesus chose His disciples to belong to Him & to perform His Will. But how did Jesus know whom to choose out of the great number of eligible men that lived there? Was it just a good guess on His part, though one chosen was wicked ( John 6:70)? Or maybe, the night he spent in prayer with His Father ( Luke 6:12,13), was also a night of the Father's instructions on the men to select from all those who followed Him. So we see here, that before choosing them to go out to serve, they first had to be the ones whom God knew would be responsive to His Son.

Once we understand this, then we won't see God as being an unjust God showing partiality. That those who come to Him in faith through His Son are those not being forced to do so, but are those whom God already knew of before their birth (as David did). And those who are "destined for Hell", choose to go there, God knowing the path their lives would take.

John 6:39-40, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Revelations 1:7, hopefully these are helpful.

Explain Jesus wil raise him up in the last days John ch